Here we go again...

[The Barbarian]

Police didn't realize that they were being recorded. Unless the guy was reaching for a weapon and they can prove it, the cops who shot him seven times in the back are looking at prison time.

The rules about shooting black Americans have changed, and some police still haven't figured it out.

 

[SkyWriting]

Police didn't realize that they were being recorded. Unless the guy was reaching for a weapon and they can prove it, the cops who shot him seven times in the back are looking at prison time.

The rules about shooting black Americans have changed, and some police still haven't figured it out.

The rules have not changed. If the police tell you to stand down, you stand down. Balck / white / or green with antennas. You do not reach inside your vehicle, inside your pockets, or scratch your butt. While I agree they started shooting quickly, it likely saved his life and his children. If he had pulled away in his vehicle he would have been shot by multiple cops in the head with stray bullets entering the vehicle from multiple angles.

 

[Halbhh]

wow, seven shots and still alive? Perhaps the officer wasn't shooting to kill. (or if he was shooting to kill, then God prevented death for that moment...)

We can pray the young man have time to turn to Christ!

 

[Sparagmos]

The rules have not changed. If the police tell you to stand down, you stand down. Balck / white / or green with antennas. You do not reach inside your vehicle, inside your pockets, or scratch your butt. While I agree they started shooting quickly, it likely saved his life and his children. If he had pulled away in his vehicle he would have been shot by multiple cops in the head with stray bullets entering the vehicle from multiple angles.

The cops shouldn’t be shooting anyone in the back, or who is running away except when a life is in imminent danger. They aren’t judge and jury, period. The fact that you and others don’t get this is why we have to keep fighting. No justice, no peace.

 

[solid_core]

Police didn't realize that they were being recorded. Unless the guy was reaching for a weapon and they can prove it, the cops who shot him seven times in the back are looking at prison time.

The rules about shooting black Americans have changed, and some police still haven't figured it out.

Why are black people ignoring what the police is telling them, so frequently?

I cannot imagine I would not listen to somebody who aims a gun at me and simply walk away to my car for something.

Nobody explained such ignoring behavior to me, yet. Are they high or something?

 

[Halbhh]

Why are black people ignoring what the police is telling them, so frequently?

I cannot imagine I would not listen to somebody who aims a gun at me and simply walk away to my car for something.

Nobody explained such ignoring behavior to me, yet. Are they high or something?

If you pay attention to a wider variety of police footage (such as from one of the reality policing shows that were popular), you find out that has little to nothing to do with color of skin, as white people, and people of every ethnicity have done the same on police camera footage. It's not race that causes that per se.

 

[solid_core]

If you pay attention, you find out very fast that of course that has little to nothing to do with color of skin, as white people, and people of every ethnicity have done the same on police camera footage. It's not race that causes that per se.

I react on videos people post here on these forums and they are almost always about blacks. So I ask about these.

BTW do you have some answer to my question? Why are they acting so weirdly? I really do not understand their beahavior, maybe its something cultural, but still, they know their life is in danger and ignore it.

 

[Halbhh]

I react on videos people post here on these forums and they are almost always about blacks. So I ask about these.

Yes, that is sad isn't it?

Though in the last few months it's an unusual time where we have intense protest (meaning the peaceful but vocal legitimate protest, not the criminal looting, vandalism, etc.) about police shooting black people at times in ways that appear as if only executions based on skin color, in appearance, to many. So, the topic about being killed for being black comes up a lot lately.

 

[solid_core]

While I agree they started shooting quickly

They were trying to pull him by t-shirt out of what he was trying to do... but when he began (against their instructions) to look for something in his car, the situtation became very dangerous for the police officers. They waited literally to the last second, trying to stop him.

 

[Halbhh]

They were trying to pull him by t-shirt out of what he was trying to do... but when he began (against their instructions) to look for something in his car, the situtation became very dangerous for the police officers. They waited literally to the last second, trying to stop him.

Yes, I think we all agree on that.

So, the topic isn't only whether force is justified...

Right?

The topic being discussed includes (at least I think it does), on precisely what is seen, including that there are 7 shots (say instead of 2).

For example, if you were that cop, in a very plausible danger from the suspect, would you shoot as many 6 or 7 shots in that exact situation on the video? Not asking you to be telepathic, but instead what your expectation and inclination would be.

Or 2 shots instead? Or maybe 3?

I think that matters, see, because some in that city are reacting because it's 7 shots, instead of just 1 or 2...

2 would seem more justified to most people, but 7 seems, appears (even if it is not!) to be something else, more akin to an execution. Appears.

So, please don't tell us "Sure, I'd shoot him 7 times or 12 times, if I needed to" etc. because that would definitely be not at all an actual answer, but would sadly make some (wrongly) think you endorse murder, even though you very likely do not.

 

[jgarden]

The rules have not changed. If the police tell you to stand down, you stand down. Balck / white / or green with antennas. You do not reach inside your vehicle, inside your pockets, or scratch your butt. While I agree they started shooting quickly, it likely saved his life and his children. If he had pulled away in his vehicle he would have been shot by multiple cops in the head with stray bullets entering the vehicle from multiple angles.

There were 2 officers within arms reach of the victim, in fact one was tugging on the back of his shirt!

Two officers should have been enough to subdue one individual without having to resort to 7 shots in the back at point blank range - when he entered the vehicle both could have easily jumped on his back and pinned him face down!

This was an incident where the use of a taser would have been more appropriate - apparently America's police still haven't gotten the message that in the 21stC, they should just automatically assume that incidents like this will be videoed!

 

[The Barbarian]

Why are black people ignoring what the police is telling them, so frequently?

Probably because police tend to shoot unarmed black people in the back. He was trying to put some distance between him and them. As you see, some police officers see black people fleeing them as justification for a summary execution. The perps felt safe, because they didn't have body cams. I'm sure the police union feels it was so unfair that a nearby citizen recorded them shooting him in the back as he entered his car, with three of his children in it.

The cops shouldn’t be shooting anyone in the back, or who is running away except when a life is in imminent danger. They aren’t judge and jury, period. The fact that you and others don’t get this is why we have to keep fighting.

I get why they kill black citizens. The rules used to be different. Now, they are being arrested and sent to prison for shooting them in the back. From their point of view, it's a betrayal.

 

[The Barbarian]

They were trying to pull him by t-shirt out of what he was trying to do... but when he began (against their instructions) to look for something in his car,

Video shows otherwise. He's just trying to get into the seat of the car. That probably would have been their story, if there hadn't been video. Bad luck guys.

the situtation became very dangerous for the police officers.

"He was trying to get away from me, and I feared for my life, so I emptied my weapon into his back."

Don't think that one is going to play, these days.

 

[The Barbarian]

So, please don't tell us "Sure, I'd shoot him 7 times or 12 times, if I needed to" etc. because that would definitely be not at all an actual answer, but would sadly make some (wrongly) think you endorse murder, even though you very likely do not.

Something very like this happened in Chicago some time back. Didn't go well for the killer.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

None of us were there and none of us have been in the cops shoes before.

Watch for the city to burn tonight

 

[The Barbarian]

None of us were there and none of us have been in the cops shoes before.

The issue is too many Americans have been in the victim's shoes before. The rules have changed, and it appears that a few trigger-happy perps will have to spend some time in prison before it sinks in.

 

[SkyWriting]

There were 2 officers within arms reach of the victim, in fact one was tugging him by the shirt!

Two officers should have been enough to subdue one individual without having to resort to 7 shots in the back at point blank range - when he entered the vehicle both could have easily jumped on his back and pinned him face down!

This was an incident where the use of a taser would have been more appropriate - apparently America's police still haven't gotten the message that in the 21stC, they should just automatically assume that incidents like this will be videoed!

I understand your being upset at the result. But resisting arrest, ignoring two officers with gun drawn , entering your car full of children put every life in that car in danger. Likely he intended to drive away. This would likely have resulted in the entire car being at risk of flight, chase and/or gunfire.

Color had nothing to do with it except that the victim decided to run away risking his entire family. Maybe he decided to run because he was black. Maybe a Chinese guy would have risked his family in the same way.

 

[SkyWriting]

None of us were there and none of us have been in the cops shoes before. Watch for the city to burn tonight

I've confronted drug dealers and car thieves face to face when I lived in the hood.
And been arrested by police. You move slow, hands in sight, and keep quiet. You don't try to drive away. When I was arrested due to the nonpayment of a fine, if I had driven away, the police could have opened fire on me. My wife was in the car and that would have been a stupid move.

 

[SkyWriting]

The cops shouldn’t be shooting anyone in the back, or who is running away except when a life is in imminent danger. They aren’t judge and jury, period. The fact that you and others don’t get this is why we have to keep fighting. No justice, no peace.

He was resisting arrest and reaching inside his car and attempting to flee. Potentially looking for a weapon in his car. All completely normal signs of agression. By fleeing he intentionally put his entire family in danger. A moving vehicle is considered a weapon.

If you think you can run from the police, you have lost the fight and potentially your life. It doesn't matter what direction you are facing. You can't run from authority in Wisconsin. Maybe Virginia allows it. If you want to change the laws so that the direction you are facing makes a difference, do that. But we don't get to make up our own rules for police conduct.

 

[Sanoy]

It's a tough call, but I think the police had reasonable belief that he was going for a gun given the fact that he was known to possess one, didn't presently have one on him, and had a record of unlawful behavior some of which included a fire arm. The fact that their gun was already drawn when this video starts suggest they already saw him as a threat. When someone is resisting arrest to that degree you can't wait till a gun is in your face before you take action. The situation can change instantly, and if you don't react fast enough your life or career as a law enforcement officer will be short. This tragedy was completely avoidable by simply not resisting arrest and drawing great suspicion of threat upon yourself. Even if you're innocent, you let them take you in and you let the lawyers fix it because the moment you resist you will be convicted of a crime.

There is no way in this video to tell what was transpiring at the car door. And an officer is not going to be able to pull him out with 1 hand on a thin tee shirt, keep in mind the other was holding a gun. The only way you are getting him out is to holster your weapon and wrestle him down, and that is a very dangerous position to put yourself in because he can turn on you and take your weapon. Few have a good confident ground game. Because it's inside the wedge of the car door, a second officer is not going to be able help much. Very few officers are good at grappling, that is why they rely on their weapons.