Here we go again...

[Tom 1]

Likely he intended to drive away. This would likely have resulted in the entire car being at risk of flight, chase and/or gunfire.

I'm not sure if people in the US realise how insane this kind of argument sounds. Don't walk away from some nutcase pointing a gun at you because if you do he'll shoot up your car for the crime of 'driving away in your car'. Oh and the armed nutcase has a badge and is paid by the state. The whole approach to policing in the US is nuts.

 

[Sanoy]

An astute lawyer could get the charges reduced. After all, he only did it once.. er twice.

Yes the probable cause is hostile eye witness testimony and video of him shooting someone. That doesn't mean they believe he is guilty of 1st degree murder. They have to take him in for the courts, that is what the arrest is. Why ask for the charges to be lowered when they are so absurdly high that they are doomed to fail in the first place?

 

[The Barbarian]

Jam the door on him, maybe grab his ankle which is down below, and maybe twist his leg so his knee is bent up under the door. The door could shield me from a knife, in case he really wanted to get me with it. And hope and pray for teamwork from there.

Assuming he actually intended to hurt anyone. The fact that he was retreating and trying to get away suggests that he was not. And since his body fell on the horn, that pretty much disposes of the idea that he was bending down to get a knife.

 

[Sanoy]

Assuming he actually intended to hurt anyone. The fact that he was retreating and trying to get away suggests that he was not. And since his body fell on the horn, that pretty much disposes of the idea that he was bending down to get a knife.

This is non Sequitur. The trajectory of a person does not imply their intent. The guy who shot Seth Kelly was retreating and trying to get away and his intention was to hurt everyone. I think you will need to CSI that claim about the horn, because as far as I can see that is just as non sequitur.

 

[The Barbarian]

Not until he was shot several times in the back. Then, as he slumped forward, his body hit the horn, which then sounded. That's not consistent with reaching for the floor, even as he slumped forward after being shot.

Nope that’s not what I saw or the investigators.

Nope. The horn sounds after he falls forward into the car. The first shot was fired before he actually got to the seat.

His body flexed only after a cop grabbed the lower part of his shirt and yanked on it. Take a look. But not a reach by anyone's measure. By that time, two shots had been fired. Eventually, he fell forward onto the horn which sounded in the video.

 

[The Barbarian]

Me too. Though it would seem after today that even knowing the information is insufficient to alter the trajectory of how people have learned to see and perceive the world.

Part of it could be that the knife being out of his reach would be one more thing for a prosecutor to use against the killer.

Given the Wisconsin Supreme Court's finding:
“Corruption, lies, multiple evidence plantings, and deceit existed throughout the entire Kenosha criminal justice system,” concluded one report, commissioned by the Wisconsin state Supreme Court in 2017 after officers allegedly lied and planted evidence in a murder case.
Kenosha P.D. Was Already Awash With Corruption, Brutality and Cover-Ups Before Blake Shooting

There might be another reason they didn't immediately talk about a knife. Most police departments, when there is exculpatory evidence like a weapon on the scene, immediately release that information.

And yes, the fact that they have lied and planted evidence, doesn't mean that they did it this time. But it does reduce one's confidence about what they said, particularly when they delayed in bringing up the issue.

As you said, it's surprising that they did not do it earlier.

 

[The Barbarian]

Yes the probable cause is hostile eye witness testimony and video of him shooting someone. That doesn't mean they believe he is guilty of 1st degree murder.

The evidence would indicate first-degree homicide. Murder would require showing that he came with the intent of killing someone.

They have to take him in for the courts, that is what the arrest is. Why ask for the charges to be lowered when they are so absurdly high that they are doomed to fail in the first place?

Juries normally have the option of convicting for a lower offense. But this one is pretty blatant.

 

[Sanoy]

Part of it could be that the knife being out of his reach would be one more thing for a prosecutor to use against the killer.

Given the Wisconsin Supreme Court's finding:
“Corruption, lies, multiple evidence plantings, and deceit existed throughout the entire Kenosha criminal justice system,” concluded one report, commissioned by the Wisconsin state Supreme Court in 2017 after officers allegedly lied and planted evidence in a murder case.
Kenosha P.D. Was Already Awash With Corruption, Brutality and Cover-Ups Before Blake Shooting

There might be another reason they didn't immediately talk about a knife. Most police departments, when there is exculpatory evidence like a weapon on the scene, immediately release that information.

And yes, the fact that they have lied and planted evidence, doesn't mean that they did it this time. But it does reduce one's confidence about what they said, particularly when they delayed in bringing up the issue.

As you said, it's surprising that they did not do it earlier.

Oh okay so the knife was planted by some dirty cop. Well it's clear your mind is made up with 0 intentions of allowing anything to detract from it's preconceived notions and perception of the world around you. We might as well be talking about flat earth earth here since your view of the situation is derived internally rather than externally. Having reached the end of reality you are now making up conspiracy theories to prevent a catharsis of perception on the world around you - so I think we have reached the end of the road in discussion here.

 

[The Barbarian]

(Suggestion, without evidence, that the victim might have driven off and harmed his children)

Police officers have done this. Would the victim have been justified in shooting the police officers, because some of them have killed members of their family?

You're using a "whataboutism"

I'm pointing out the foolishness of suggesting that police should kill a man leaving with his children because some parents have killed their children. The victim could just as well have used that as an excuse for killing the police officer, since some of them have shot children.

 

[jgarden]

Witnesses: Suspect in double killing at Kenosha protest was ...
ktla.com › news › nationworld › witnesses-suspect-in-d...
18 hours ago - A white, 17-year-old police admirer was arrested Wednesday after two people were shot to death during a third straight ... Witnesses: Suspect in double killing at Kenosha protest was ignored by police as he left scene with rifle.

Apparently in Kenosha, Wisconsin the police will shoot an unarmed man 7 times in the back in broad dayilight, - but choose to ignore white-militia armed with rifles illegally wandering those same streets after curfew!

Police were even prepared to ignore the armed shooter as he left the scene carrying his rifle, after killing 2 and wounding 1 - now FOXNEWS is championing his cause as a heroic attempt to maintain "law and order!

 

[The Barbarian]

Oh okay so the knife was planted by some dirty cop.

All we have from the Wisconsin Supreme Court is that it has been done by police in that department. So we can't dismiss it, any more than we could dismiss wrongdoing by any other criminal.

It's clear your mind is made up with no intentions of allowing anything to detract you from your preconceived notions. We might as well be talking about flat earth earth here since your view of the situation is derived internally rather than any of the facts in evidence.

 

[The Barbarian]

This is non Sequitur. The trajectory of a person does not imply their intent.

It's a matter of law. Police are legally forbidden to shoot a person fleeing the police and not trying to harm them.

The guy who shot Seth Kelly was retreating and trying to get away and his intention was to hurt everyone.

And that's the difference.

I think you will need to CSI that claim about the horn, because as far as I can see that is just as non sequitur.

You can hear it on the video.

 

[Sanoy]

Apparently in Kenosha, Wisconsin the police will shoot an unarmed man 7 times in the back in broad dayilight, - but choose to ignore white-militia armed with rifles illegally wandering those same streets after curfew!

NO. He was ignored because they didn't know who the shooter was. They knew there were militia members around. From the Daily Mail.
"Despite appearing to hand himself in, Sheriff David Beth told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel first thing Wednesday that shooter had not yet been identified or detained.

'I feel very confident we'll have him in a very short time,' he said given what the videos showed. "

That is why he was not arrested at that moment. Please learn more before you exacerbate an already fatal situation in our nation with more race baiting.

Where are you sourcing that Jacob Blake was unarmed?

 

[jgarden]

Why police encouraged shooting suspect Kyle Rittenhouse to ...
www.vox.com › kenosha-kyle-rittenhouse-police-gun-...
42 mins ago - Why police encouraged a teenager with a gun to patrol Kenosha's streets. Police in Wisconsin told armed militia members that “we appreciate ...

Kyle Rittenhouse, the 17-year-old charged with murder in the shooting deaths of two people during the violent protests in Kenosha, Wisconsin, had a run-in with the police earlier in the night — an extremely friendly one.

In footage from about 15 minutes before the shootings pieced together by the New York Times’s Visual Investigations team, you can see Rittenhouse walk up to an armored police vehicle and chat with officers. A police officer pops out of one vehicle’s hatch and tosses bottles to Rittenhouse’s associates, members of an armed militia. “We appreciate you guys, we really do,” the officer says before driving off.

The young-looking Rittenhouse is under the legal age for firearm ownership and was carrying an assault rifle, which appears to be a misdemeanor under Wisconsin law. Instead of stopping him and asking for proof of age, the police give him water and an attaboy. And when he tried to surrender after the shootings, the police went right by him, even as bystanders were telling them that Rittenhouse had shot people.
**************************************************************************************************************
Apparently there is a video showing Kyle Ritterhouse and his assault rifle armed-militia associates, having a friendly conversation with of the Kenosha police, earlier in the night after curfew!

The police are seen offering them pop, water and verbal encouragement - based on Wisconsin law Ritterhouse is underage to be carrying an assault rifle, but the Kenosha officers never requested proof of age!

Even after the shooting, with an armed Ritterhouse prepared to surrender, Kenosha police go right past him - literally ignoring the attempts of bystanders to identify the suspect that had just shot 3 people

The Truth is Stranger than Fiction - when it comes to the Kenosha Police much Stranger!

 

[Sanoy]

Why police encouraged shooting suspect Kyle Rittenhouse to ...
www.vox.com › kenosha-kyle-rittenhouse-police-gun-...
42 mins ago - Why police encouraged a teenager with a gun to patrol Kenosha's streets. Police in Wisconsin told armed militia members that “we appreciate ...

Apparently there are even videos of the Kenosha police thanking white-militia for patrolling the streets armed and after curfew - you could never make this up because no one would believe it!

Actual source for this claim??? (Vox, which is terrible to begin with, is simply restating the claim, not making it) All I have seen is a slowed down 3s clip of a head popping out of an APC and throwing a bottle into the air. It doesn't show who it's been thrown to and the audio sounds like it's coming over the radio. The only actual originating claim that I can find of this happening is someones tweet.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Not until he was shot several times in the back. Then, as he slumped forward, his body hit the horn, which then sounded. That's not consistent with reaching for the floor, even as he slumped forward after being shot.



Nope. The horn sounds after he falls forward into the car. The first shot was fired before he actually got to the seat.

His body flexed only after a cop grabbed the lower part of his shirt and yanked on it. Take a look. But not a reach by anyone's measure. By that time, two shots had been fired. Eventually, he fell forward onto the horn which sounded in the video.

He bent forward as soon as he got the door open before the shots were fired. Your just looking for every excuse to hide your mistake. I saw it, other people saw it, and the investigators saw it. So your denial is irrelevant.

 

[jgarden]

NO. He was ignored because they didn't know who the shooter was. They knew there were militia members around. From the Daily Mail.
"Despite appearing to hand himself in, Sheriff David Beth told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel first thing Wednesday that shooter had not yet been identified or detained.

'I feel very confident we'll have him in a very short time,' he said given what the videos showed. "

That is why he was not arrested at that moment. Please learn more before you exacerbate an already fatal situation in our nation with more race baiting.

Where are you sourcing that Jacob Blake was unarmed?

1) Where is the sourcing that Jacob Blake was armed and at this late date who is going to believe the Kenosha police if a weapon were to mysteriously appear to justify their actions?

2) Ritterhouse and this private militia were allowed to patrol with assault rifles on the same streets where an unarmed Stone was shot 7x in the back!

3) the Stone shooting occurred in the daytime, Ritterhouse and the armed militia were patrolling after curfew!

4) video shows an earlier friendly conversation between militia members and Kenosha police who gave them their approval

5) Ritterhouse was too young to possess an assault rifle but Kenosha police never even request proof of age!

8) Apparently an armed Ritterhouse was prepared to surrender himself after the shootings, but the Kenosha police rush right past him!

9) Bystanders who were doing their civic duty by attempting to identify the suspect in the shootings are literally ignored by the Kenosha police!

10) This is an ongoing tragedy with the loss of human life but the actions of the Kenosha police are those of "The Keystone Cops" - and that's putting it charitably!

 

[The Barbarian]

He bent forward as soon as he got the door open before the shots were fired.

Nope. The video clearly shows he didn't bend until an officer jerked on the lower part of his shirt.

You're just looking for every excuse to hide your mistake. Everyone who saw the video saw it. Why bother denying the fact?

 

[The Barbarian]

This is an ongoing tragedy with the loss of human life but the actions of the Kenosha police are those of "The Keystone Cops" - and that's putting it charitably!

It's understandable from their standpoint; he didn't look the way they've been conditioned to see criminals.

 

[Sanoy]

1) Where is the sourcing that Jacob Blake was armed and at this late date who is going to believe the Kenosha police if a weapon were to mysteriously appear to justify their actions?

2) Ritterhouse and the militia were allowed to patrol the same streets with assault rifles were an unarmed Stone was shot 7x in the back!

3) the Stone shooting occurred in the daytime, Ritterhouse and the armed militia were patroling after curfew!

4) video shows an earlier friendly conversation between militia members and Kenosha police who gave them their approval

5) Ritterhouse was too young to possess an assault rifle but Kenosha police never even request proof of age!

8) Apparently an armed Ritterhouse was prepared to surrender himself after the shootings, but the Kenosha police rush right past him!

9) Bystanders who were doing their civic duty by attempting to identify the suspect in the shootings are literally ignored by the Kenosha police!

10) This is an ongoing tragedy with the loss of human life but the actions of the Kenosha police are those of "The Keystone Cops" - and that's putting it charitably!

Oh okay so your source that Jacob Blake was unarmed is the lack of any source that he was armed. Incredible! It's a pending investigation so you have to wait for such details to be released not make truth claims about things you don't know. Perhaps you don't realize that it was released that there was a knife in the same location to where he was shot (Driver side floor board) and the video witness claims to have heard the police say put down the knife. Or perhaps you do and simple care more about spreading an ideology than the truth.

And 9 things having nothing to do with the source I asked for or anything I said. Figured as much.