Here is why the saints cannot ignore the Commandments of God - not even the TEN

[Hank77]

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

Deu 5:15 and thou hast remembered that a servant thou hast been in the land of Egypt, and Yehovah thy God is bringing thee out thence by a strong hand, and by a stretched-out arm; therefore hath Yehovah thy God commanded thee to keep the day of the sabbath.

There was no scripture before the Law that mentions keeping the 7th day sabbath. The 7th day sabbath was specifically given to Israel to Remember when God brought them out of slaving in Egypt.

 

[BABerean2]

Instructive that you find not one text in your own post that says that - so you quote "you".

Were we simply "not supposed to notice"??

You are correct. I should have quoted Jesus.

Luk 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

Luk 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Luk 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. (This is the Jubilee Year, which is the Sabbath of Sabbaths.)

Luk 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

Luk 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.


Jesus told them He was the Jubilee.


The Spirit He sent lives inside of us.


Therefore the Sabbath of Sabbaths is inside of us.

.

 

[Tiny Bible]

Heb 4 "There REMAINS a Sabbath rest for the people of God" -- "remains from when" ?

Answer -- from the Psalms - from the time of David - JUST as they were keeping the Sabbath - it REMAINS for us - to this very day.

hence in Is 66:23 for all eternity after the cross - in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship"

Hebrews 4 is a great verse because it arrives after Jesus returned to Heaven and is therefore reiterating the God's day of rest.Man was made for the Sabbath. The Sabbath was not made for man.
When does man cease being made for the Sabbath?
The Sabbath is a day of rest from the world. Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath. Of course he is. He is the God that decreed the Sabbath come to exist in Genesis. He is that same Lord which is to be honored on his day that is to be kept holy as he is holy.

It's shocking to encounter arguments that claim Jesus is the Sabbath and that means believing in him repeals Sabbath day. If every day was Sabbath as defined in scripture who would work? It's a silly idea. And it isn't substantiated in scripture which makes it null and void as a proclamation.

Jesus is with us every day. God knew that. And yet he still declared after his six days of work to create this world and all upon it a day of rest.And that so that man could appreciate all that is created including themselves as a child of God who takes the time to appreciate the God that made it all possible.

 

[BABerean2]

Hebrews 4 is a great verse because it arrives after Jesus returned to Heaven and is therefore reiterating the God's day of rest.Man was made for the Sabbath. The Sabbath was not made for man.
When does man cease being made for the Sabbath?
The Sabbath is a day of rest from the world. Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath. Of course he is. He is the God that decreed the Sabbath come to exist in Genesis. He is that same Lord which is to be honored on his day that is to be kept holy as he is holy.

It's shocking to encounter arguments that claim Jesus is the Sabbath and that means believing in him repeals Sabbath day. If every day was Sabbath as defined in scripture who would work? It's a silly idea. And it isn't substantiated in scripture which makes it null and void as a proclamation.

Jesus is with us every day. God knew that. And yet he still declared after his six days of work to create this world and all upon it a day of rest.And that so that man could appreciate all that is created including themselves as a child of God who takes the time to appreciate the God that made it all possible.

Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.


Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.



Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. (Here Paul compares the Sinai covenant to bondage.)

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
(This is the New Jerusalem found in Hebrews 11:16, which is now in heaven.)

Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. (Paul tells us to cast out the Sinai covenant and says the inheritance does not come through the Sinai covenant.)

Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
(We are the children of the New Covenant.)

The Sinai Sabbath was given to the children of Israel as the Sign of the Sinai covenant.


Exo 31:12 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

It is the Sign of a broken covenant.


Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

.

 

[BobRyan]

Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

Acts 20:7

(ESV) On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight.

(Geneva) And the first day of the weeke, the disciples being come together to breake bread, Paul preached vnto them, ready to depart on the morrow, and continued the preaching vnto midnight.

(GW) On Sunday we met to break bread. Paul was discussing Scripture with the people. Since he intended to leave the next day, he kept talking until midnight.

(LITV-TSP) And on the first of the week, the disciples having been assembled to break bread, being about to depart on the morrow, Paul reasoned to them. And he continued his speech until midnight.

(KJV) And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

A great example of 1 text - quoted -- yet not a single version says that they meet every week on week-day-1 or says "on the first day of the week - the Lord's Day" - or gives any reason at all for breaking bread and meeting on week-day-1 other than Paul leaving the next day.


Colossians 2 is about false teachers "making stuff up" vs the real - pure doctrine of the Gospel.

Mark 2:23-28 - making stuff up about 7th day Sabbath keeping
Mark 7:6-13 - making stuff up that contradicts the Commandments of God.


Col 2
13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross

1 john 2:2 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Nailing our debt of sin - the cross - having become the substitutionary atoning sacrifice -- paying our debt.

======================================

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of Sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.(NASB)

This is not a condemnation of eating, or of drinking or of the annual feast day Sabbath shadows of the cross or any part of God's Word.


Col 2 is about condemning the commandments "of men" - not commandments of God.

8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.
..
18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind. 19 They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.
20 Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules: 21 “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? 22 These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

instead of Paul condemning what Christ calls "the Word of God" in Col 2 -- Paul condemns the traditions of MAN.

Here is how Paul contrasts keeping the moral law of God that defines what sin is (including the TEN Commandments) vs the ceremonial law such as circumcision.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

= ==============================

The NEW Covenant -

Jer 31
31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

 

[BobRyan]

Every day is the Sabbath.

Instructive that you find not one text in your own post that says that - so you quote "you".

Were we simply "not supposed to notice"??

You are correct. I should have quoted Jesus.

Luk 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

True - you should have quoted Jesus saying "every day is the Sabbath".

Instead of that you find Luke 4 and that fact that Jesus regularly kept Sabbath.

In Luke 4 Jesus does not say "I am Jubilee".

In Luke 4 Jesus does not say "Every day is the Sabbath"

In Luke 4 Jesus does not say "the Sabbath of Sabbath is inside you"

For that - we would have to "quote you".

 

[BobRyan]

Deu 5:15 and thou hast remembered that a servant thou hast been in the land of Egypt, and Yehovah thy God is bringing thee out thence by a strong hand, and by a stretched-out arm; therefore hath Yehovah thy God commanded thee to keep the day of the sabbath.

There was no scripture before the Law that mentions keeping the 7th day sabbath. The 7th day sabbath was specifically given to Israel to Remember when God brought them out of slaving in Egypt.

Gen 26:5
Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws.

John 8:56 "Abraham saw My day and was glad"

Mark 2:27 "Sabbath was MADE for mankind" -- in Gen 2:1-4 as even Exodus 20:11 reminds us.

 

[BABerean2]

Instructive that you find not one text in your own post that says that - so you quote "you".

Were we simply "not supposed to notice"??

What we need to notice is why you ignore what Paul said about the Sinai covenant, in order to make your Sinai covenant, Sabbath keeping, work for you.

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. (Here the Apostle Paul compares the Sinai covenant to bondage.)

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. (Again, we find the Sinai covenant compared to bondage.)

Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
(This is a reference to the New Jerusalem, which is now in heaven based on Hebrews 11:16.)

Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.


Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
(Here Paul tells us to cast out the Sinai covenant and that the inheritance does not come through the covenant of bondage.)

Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
(We are children of the New Covenant.)



Sabbath Keeping was the "Sign" of the Sinai covenant to be kept by the children of Israel.


Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.


Circumcision of males was the "Sign" of the Abrahamic covenant.


Believer's baptism is the "Sign" of the New Covenant.


Then you try to say that Colossians 2:16 does not really mean what the text clearly states, because the verse destroys your doctrine.

Colossians 2:16

(CJB) So don't let anyone pass judgment on you in connection with eating and drinking, or in regard to a Jewish festival or Rosh-Hodesh or Shabbat.


(ESV) Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.


(Geneva) Let no man therefore condemne you in meate and drinke, or in respect of an holy day, or of the newe moone, or of the Sabbath dayes,


(GW) Therefore, let no one judge you because of what you eat or drink or about the observance of annual holy days, New Moon Festivals, or weekly worship days.


(LITV-TSP) Then do not let anyone judge you in eating, or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or the new moon, or of Sabbaths,


(KJV) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:


Then you also ignore the fact that your denomination condemns worshipping on Sunday, even though we have a clear text stating that the early Church met, broke bread and preached on that day.


Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.


When Jesus did not return on October 22, 1844 William Miller later admitted he was wrong.

Some people are still trying to figure out how to get around coming to the same conclusion.


Shut Door Documents from the Estate of Ellen G. White
http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/shutdoor.html

 

[disciple1]

Hebrews 4 is a great verse because it arrives after Jesus returned to Heaven and is therefore reiterating the God's day of rest.Man was made for the Sabbath. The Sabbath was not made for man.
When does man cease being made for the Sabbath?
The Sabbath is a day of rest from the world. Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath. Of course he is. He is the God that decreed the Sabbath come to exist in Genesis. He is that same Lord which is to be honored on his day that is to be kept holy as he is holy.

It's shocking to encounter arguments that claim Jesus is the Sabbath and that means believing in him repeals Sabbath day. If every day was Sabbath as defined in scripture who would work? It's a silly idea. And it isn't substantiated in scripture which makes it null and void as a proclamation.

Jesus is with us every day. God knew that. And yet he still declared after his six days of work to create this world and all upon it a day of rest.And that so that man could appreciate all that is created including themselves as a child of God who takes the time to appreciate the God that made it all possible.

You're mistaken.

Man was made for the Sabbath. The Sabbath was not made for man.
When does man cease being made for the Sabbath?

Mark chapter 2
27 Then he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. 28 So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

 

[BobRyan]

Every day is the Sabbath.

Instructive that you find not one text in your own post that says that - so you quote "you".

Were we simply "not supposed to notice"??

You are correct. I should have quoted Jesus.

Luk 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

True - you should have quoted Jesus saying "every day is the Sabbath".

Instead of that you find Luke 4 and that fact that Jesus regularly kept Sabbath.

In Luke 4 Jesus does not say "I am Jubilee".

In Luke 4 Jesus does not say "Every day is the Sabbath"

In Luke 4 Jesus does not say "the Sabbath of Sabbath is inside you"

For that - we would have to "quote you".

So in the case as stated above simply having "you quote you" for the salient points in your argument -- is not a compelling solution.

Everyone one of your key statements - was not found in the actual text. Only in "your quote of you".

What we need to notice is why you ignore what Paul said about the Sinai covenant, in order to make your Sinai covenant, Sabbath keeping, work for you.

It is Paul in Heb 8:6-10 saying that the NEW COVENANT - made with Israel and the house of Judah -- quoted from Jer 31:31-33 applies to all Christians.

How is that "ignoring Paul" on the New Covenant?

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. (Here the Apostle Paul compares the Sinai covenant to bondage.)

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. (Again, we find the Sinai covenant compared to bondage.)

Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
(This is a reference to the New Jerusalem, which is now in heaven based on Hebrews 11:16.)

Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

At Sinai we have -
Lev 19:18 - "Love your neighbor as yourself"

Then at the end of the 40 years Moses reminds them -
Deut 6:5 - "Love God with all your heart"

Moses and Elijah stand with Christ in Matt 17 - before the cross. And Paul upholds the OT saints in Hebrews 11 as models for all NT saints.

Paul is not condemning Moses in Gal 4. He is pointing out that the ceremonial law of Sinai - is no longer the rule for the NT after the cross.

But if that can be bent-wrenched-twisted into "anything God told Moses at Sinai is evil" then - yeah - we would have a problem with "Love your Neighbor as yourself" and worse -- we would have a problem with Christ in Matt 22 quoting Moses on that very point - and so also Paul in Rom 13 quoting it, and James 2 quoting it.

 

[BABerean2]

Paul is not condemning Moses in Gal 4. He is pointing out that the ceremonial law of Sinai - is no longer the rule for the NT after the cross.

Paul did not use the words "ceremonial law" in Galatians chapter 4. He used the word "covenant".


Exo_34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.



Therefore, it would be you in this case who is quoting "You", by changing scripture to make it fit your doctrine.



Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

Shut Door Documents from the Estate of Ellen G. White
http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/shutdoor.html

.

 

[disciple1]

Instructive that you find not one text in your own post that says that - so you quote "you".

Were we simply "not supposed to notice"??



True - you should have quoted Jesus saying "every day is the Sabbath".

Instead of that you find Luke 4 and that fact that Jesus regularly kept Sabbath.

In Luke 4 Jesus does not say "I am Jubilee".

In Luke 4 Jesus does not say "Every day is the Sabbath"

In Luke 4 Jesus does not say "the Sabbath of Sabbath is inside you"

For that - we would have to "quote you".

So in the case as stated above simply having "you quote you" for the salient points in your argument -- is not a compelling solution.

Everyone one of your key statements - was not found in the actual text. Only in "your quote of you".



It is Paul in Heb 8:6-10 saying that the NEW COVENANT - made with Israel and the house of Judah -- quoted from Jer 31:31-33 applies to all Christians.

How is that "ignoring Paul" on the New Covenant?



At Sinai we have -
Lev 19:18 - "Love your neighbor as yourself"

Then at the end of the 40 years Moses reminds them -
Deut 6:5 - "Love God with all your heart"

Moses and Elijah stand with Christ in Matt 17 - before the cross. And Paul upholds the OT saints in Hebrews 11 as models for all NT saints.

Paul is not condemning Moses in Gal 4. He is pointing out that the ceremonial law of Sinai - is no longer the rule for the NT after the cross.

But if that can be bent-wrenched-twisted into "anything God told Moses at Sinai is evil" then - yeah - we would have a problem with "Love your Neighbor as yourself" and worse -- we would have a problem with Christ in Matt 22 quoting Moses on that very point - and so also Paul in Rom 13 quoting it, and James 2 quoting it.

This applies to old and new testament.
Romans chapter 9 verses 30-Romans chapter 10 verse 4
What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. As it is written: See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame. Brothers my heart's desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. For I can testify about them that they are Zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own the did not submit to God's righteousness, Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

 

[BobRyan]

At Sinai we have -
Lev 19:18 - "Love your neighbor as yourself"

Then at the end of the 40 years Moses reminds them -
Deut 6:5 - "Love God with all your heart"

Moses and Elijah stand with Christ in Matt 17 - before the cross. And Paul upholds the OT saints in Hebrews 11 as models for all NT saints.

Paul is not condemning Moses in Gal 4. He is pointing out that the ceremonial law of Sinai - is no longer the rule for the NT after the cross.

But if that can be bent-wrenched-twisted into "anything God told Moses at Sinai is evil" then - yeah - we would have a problem with "Love your Neighbor as yourself" and worse -- we would have a problem with Christ in Matt 22 quoting Moses on that very point - and so also Paul in Rom 13 quoting it, and James 2 quoting it.

This applies to old and new testament.
Romans chapter 9 verses 30-Romans chapter 10 verse 4

True and in Matt 22 Jesus does not quote Lev 19:18 by saying "ignore all of God's commandments except for this one".

Rather in Matt 5 HE says - 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

this is the opposite from "assume all of the commandments of God have been deleted - except for a few I may mentioned from time to time over the next few years". I think we all can see that.

Romans 11
What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works.

The point in Romans 11 is not that Lev 19:18 and Deut 6:5 "were evil" because they were spoken by Moses.

The point in Romans 11 - is that as good as those commandments are - they do not replace the Gospel - which provides for payment for our sins "Sin IS transgression of the LAW" and creates the new birth in the lost sinner - who then walks according to the principles of Romans 6.

 

[disciple1]

True and in Matt 22 Jesus does not quote Lev 19:18 by saying "ignore all of God's commandments except for this one".

Rather in Matt 5 HE says - 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

this is the opposite from "assume all of the commandments of God have been deleted - except for a few I may mentioned from time to time over the next few years". I think we all can see that.

Romans 11
What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works.

The point in Romans 11 is not that Lev 19:18 and Deut 6:5 "were evil" because they were spoken by Moses.

The point in Romans 11 - is that as good as those commandments are - they do not replace the Gospel - which provides for payment for our sins "Sin IS transgression of the LAW" and creates the new birth in the lost sinner - who then walks according to the principles of Romans 6.

1 John chapter 1 verse 8
If anyone claims to be without sin they deceive themselves and the truth is not in them.
James chapter 2 verse 10
If anyone keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

Rather in Matt 5 HE says - 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

You teach the commands you don't obey, I teach the commands I do obey.
1 peter chapter 4
8 Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.
galatians chapter 3 verse 12
The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, "The person who does these things will live by them."

And love is greater than faith.

 

[BobRyan]

1 John chapter 1 verse 8
If anyone claims to be without sin they deceive themselves and the truth is not in them.

Indeed - all HAVE sinned and come short of the glory of God.

So ALSO --

1 John 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of the LAW"

1 John 3:
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

1 John 5
5 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments.

He who teaches non-stop rebellion against the Commandments of God - ought to avoid 1 John.

=====================================

James chapter 2 verse 10
If anyone keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

James 2
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” (Lev 19:18) you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty

He who teaches non-stop rebellion against the Commandments of God - ought to avoid James 2.

=========================================

You teach the commands you don't obey, I teach the commands I do obey.

Rom 2
13 for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

17 Indeed you are called a Jew, and rest on the law, and make your boast in God, 18 and know His will, and approve the things that are excellent, being instructed out of the law, 19 and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, having the form of knowledge and truth in the law. 21 You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal? 22 You who say, “Do not commit adultery,” do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law? 24 For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you,” as it is written.

He who teaches non-stop rebellion against the Commandments of God - - will feel the need to avoid Romans 2.

======================

Matt 5 HE says - 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

He who teaches non-stop rebellion against the Commandments of God - will feel the need to avoid the teaching of Christ in Matt 5:192.

=====================================

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

John 14:15 "IF you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments"

He who teaches bending-editing-downsizing the Commandments of God - will feel the need to avoid the teaching of Christ in Mark 7.

===================================

Matt 19
16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

He who teaches that the TEN Commandments have nothing to do with the Commandments of God in the NT - - will feel the need to avoid the teaching of Christ in Matt 19:18.

 

[disciple1]

Indeed - all HAVE sinned and come short of the glory of God.

So ALSO --

1 John 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of the LAW"

1 John 3:
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

1 John 5
5 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments.

He who teaches non-stop rebellion against the Commandments of God - ought to avoid 1 John.

=====================================



James 2
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” (Lev 19:18) you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty

He who teaches non-stop rebellion against the Commandments of God - ought to avoid James 2.

=========================================



Rom 2
13 for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

17 Indeed you are called a Jew, and rest on the law, and make your boast in God, 18 and know His will, and approve the things that are excellent, being instructed out of the law, 19 and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, having the form of knowledge and truth in the law. 21 You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal? 22 You who say, “Do not commit adultery,” do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law? 24 For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you,” as it is written.

He who teaches non-stop rebellion against the Commandments of God - - will feel the need to avoid Romans 2.

======================

Matt 5 HE says - 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

He who teaches non-stop rebellion against the Commandments of God - will feel the need to avoid the teaching of Christ in Matt 5:192.

=====================================

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

John 14:15 "IF you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments"

He who teaches bending-editing-downsizing the Commandments of God - will feel the need to avoid the teaching of Christ in Mark 7.

===================================

Matt 19
16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

He who teaches that the TEN Commandments have nothing to do with the Commandments of God in the NT - - will feel the need to avoid the teaching of Christ in Matt 19:18.

This applies to old and new testament law.
No one ever obeyed the law except Christ, and what your saying seems to me to be hypocrisy.
Romans chapter 9 verses 30-Romans chapter 10 verse 4
What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. As it is written: See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame. Brothers my heart's desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. For I can testify about them that they are Zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own the did not submit to God's righteousness, Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

 

[BobRyan]

True and in Matt 22 Jesus does not quote Lev 19:18 by saying "ignore all of God's commandments except for this one".

Rather in Matt 5 HE says - 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

this is the opposite from "assume all of the commandments of God have been deleted - except for a few I may mentioned from time to time over the next few years". I think we all can see that.

Romans 11
What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works.

The point in Romans 11 is not that Lev 19:18 and Deut 6:5 "were evil" because they were spoken by Moses.

The point in Romans 11 - is that as good as those commandments are - they do not replace the Gospel - which provides for payment for our sins "Sin IS transgression of the LAW" and creates the new birth in the lost sinner - who then walks according to the principles of Romans 6.

Indeed - all HAVE sinned and come short of the glory of God.

So ALSO --

1 John 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of the LAW"

1 John 3:
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

1 John 5
5 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments.

He who teaches non-stop rebellion against the Commandments of God - ought to avoid 1 John.

=====================================



James 2
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” (Lev 19:18) you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty

He who teaches non-stop rebellion against the Commandments of God - ought to avoid James 2.

=========================================



Rom 2
13 for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

17 Indeed you are called a Jew, and rest on the law, and make your boast in God, 18 and know His will, and approve the things that are excellent, being instructed out of the law, 19 and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, having the form of knowledge and truth in the law. 21 You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal? 22 You who say, “Do not commit adultery,” do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law? 24 For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you,” as it is written.

He who teaches non-stop rebellion against the Commandments of God - - will feel the need to avoid Romans 2.

======================

Matt 5 HE says - 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

He who teaches non-stop rebellion against the Commandments of God - will feel the need to avoid the teaching of Christ in Matt 5:192.

=====================================

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

John 14:15 "IF you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments"

He who teaches bending-editing-downsizing the Commandments of God - will feel the need to avoid the teaching of Christ in Mark 7.

===================================

Matt 19
16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

He who teaches that the TEN Commandments have nothing to do with the Commandments of God in the NT - - will feel the need to avoid the teaching of Christ in Matt 19:18.

This applies to old and new testament law.

That is true. That is why attacking God's Commandments - His TEN Commandments is such a short sighted strategy.

No one ever obeyed the law except Christ,

No one perfectly obeyed - by never sinning. But Christ did. So all need the Gospel

STILL we can affirm the TEN Commandments where "honor your father and mother" is the FIRST commandment in that unit of TEN "with a promise" Eph 6:2

and what your saying seems to me to be hypocrisy.

Sadly... you are mistaken.

This exchange is a perfect illustration of the paucity in logic that we find in your presentation on this subject.

Frankly I find your logic "illusive" just then.

 

[disciple1]

That is true. That is why attacking God's Commandments - His TEN Commandments is such a short sighted strategy.




No one perfectly obeyed - by never sinning. But Christ did. So all need the Gospel

STILL we can affirm the TEN Commandments where "honor your father and mother" is the FIRST commandment in that unit of TEN "with a promise" Eph 6:2



Sadly... you are mistaken.

This exchange is a perfect illustration of the paucity in logic that we find in your presentation on this subject.

Frankly I find your logic "illusive" just then.

Hebrews chapter 7 verses 11,12 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood for on the basis of it the law was given to the people why was there still need for another priest to come one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law.
John chapter 15 verse 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.

 

[BobRyan]

Hebrews chapter 7 verses 11,12 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood .

Is it your claim that if one Honors his parents Ex 20:6 - he is relying on Jewish priesthood and opposing the Gospel??

That only rebellion against Ex 20:12 will do for Christians???

Are you even reading Eph 6:2 at all when you make those arguments?

 

[Tiny Bible]

You're mistaken.

Mark chapter 2
27 Then he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. 28 So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

Not on that evidence I'm not.