Help with John 7:39

[Carl Emerson]

Some folks on CF believe the Holy Spirit indwelled believers in the Old Covenant.

But Jesus said...

37 Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink.
38 The one who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’”
39 But this He said in reference to the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Yet we read...

your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you shall name him John.
14 You will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice over his birth.
15 For he will be great in the sight of the Lord; and he will drink no wine or liquor, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit while still in his mother’s womb.

While I firmly believe that in Jesus we have the promised indwelling to come with a New Covenant, promised through Jeremiah (32:40), the nature of this New Covenant indwelling has to be significantly different than what John received.

Thoughts on this appreciated.

 

[sandman]

Some folks on CF believe the Holy Spirit indwelled believers in the Old Covenant.

But Jesus said...

37 Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink.
38 The one who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’”
39 But this He said in reference to the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Yet we read...

your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you shall name him John.
14 You will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice over his birth.
15 For he will be great in the sight of the Lord; and he will drink no wine or liquor, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit while still in his mother’s womb.

While I firmly believe that in Jesus we have the promised indwelling to come with a New Covenant, promised through Jeremiah (32:40), the nature of this New Covenant indwelling has to be significantly different than what John received.

Thoughts on this appreciated.

John was the only child to be born with the spirit ….That was Gods decision.

But yes…. the permanent indwelling was not available until the new covenant was established after Pentecost…Some OT believers had the spirit in or upon…. but it was always conditional upon their walk.

 

[Paidiske]

Before Pentecost, the Spirit was not poured out on everyone (so in John 7:39 it's talking about "not yet given" in a general or plenary sense). But if we take the OT seriously, we see many instances where the Spirit was given to individuals for a time or a particular purpose. I don't see any reason to think that their experience was significantly different to the experience of Christians after Pentecost.

 

[d taylor]

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Examples of believers from The Tanakh being filled with the Holy Spirit. Would be any believer that did a miracle, Moses, Sampson, Elijah, etc... Plus any writer of The Tanakh.

 

[anetazo]

John Baptist is God's Elect. Of course John had the holy spirit. Abraham was God's Elect. So were, isaac, Jacob and the prophets. List continues, Moses, Joshua, david, Solomon. First Peter chapter 1:2. .ELECT, according to the foreknowledge of God the father, through sanctification of the spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus christ: God's Election were judged, and chosen before foundation of the world. In the first earth age God hand picked His Election. The position for Elect can't be volunteered for. Get the picture. IEPEVS in Greek means = priest, elected and separated by God. OVOPA in Greek means = called, chosen, person called by name. POOPILW in Greek means = PREDESTINATE. Ephesians 2:20. And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus christ Himself being the chief corner stone. Many people since Adam and eve had spirit of stupor. To this day, many people have spirit of slumber. Gods Elect have holy spirit. The millennium, revelation chapter 20, is a time for teaching and discipline for the spirtualty dead. Many people will have to wait until millennium is over to have access to Jesus.

 

[Carl Emerson]

John Baptist is God's Elect. Of course John had the holy spirit. Abraham was God's Elect. So were, isaac, Jacob and the prophets. List continues, Moses, Joshua, david, Solomon. First Peter chapter 1:2. .ELECT, according to the foreknowledge of God the father, through sanctification of the spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus christ: God's Election were judged, and chosen before foundation of the world. In the first earth age God hand picked His Election. The position for Elect can't be volunteered for. Get the picture. IEPEVS in Greek means = priest, elected and separated by God. OVOPA in Greek means = called, chosen, person called by name. POOPILW in Greek means = PREDESTINATE. Ephesians 2:20. And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus christ Himself being the chief corner stone. Many people since Adam and eve had spirit of stupor. To this day, many people have spirit of slumber. Gods Elect have holy spirit. The millennium, revelation chapter 20, is a time for teaching and discipline for the spirtualty dead. Many people will have to wait until millennium is over to have access to Jesus.

So what did Jesus mean when He said that the Holy Spirit was not yet given ???

 

[d taylor]

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What is interesting about The Holy Spirit. Is that all the prophets (Moses, etc..) who were filled with the Holy Spirit and the miracles they were able to do, who was accepted as being from God.

Especially from the rulers of Israel in the age Jesus came to the nation of Israel as a physical person, a prophet. Who did greater miracles than past prophets, but yet He Jesus was rejected and not only rejected. But rejected because the miracles He did were attributed to the prince of demons and not to The Holy Spirit.

 

[eleos1954]

Some folks on CF believe the Holy Spirit indwelled believers in the Old Covenant.

But Jesus said...

37 Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink.
38 The one who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’”
39 But this He said in reference to the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Yet we read...

your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you shall name him John.
14 You will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice over his birth.
15 For he will be great in the sight of the Lord; and he will drink no wine or liquor, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit while still in his mother’s womb.

While I firmly believe that in Jesus we have the promised indwelling to come with a New Covenant, promised through Jeremiah (32:40), the nature of this New Covenant indwelling has to be significantly different than what John received.

Thoughts on this appreciated.

It isn't a new covenant as in "brand new" .... it is a better covenant .... the old being made better (significantly better) through Christ.

Some folks on CF believe the Holy Spirit indwelled believers in the Old Covenant.

But Jesus said...

37 Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink.
38 The one who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’”
39 But this He said in reference to the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Yet we read...

your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you shall name him John.
14 You will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice over his birth.
15 For he will be great in the sight of the Lord; and he will drink no wine or liquor, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit while still in his mother’s womb.

While I firmly believe that in Jesus we have the promised indwelling to come with a New Covenant, promised through Jeremiah (32:40), the nature of this New Covenant indwelling has to be significantly different than what John received.

Thoughts on this appreciated.

It's not a new covenant as in "brand new" .... it's a better covenant ...... the old made better (significantly so)

6Now, however, Jesus has received a much more excellent ministry, just as the covenant He mediates is better and is founded on better promises.

The "fault" with the old covenant is because the people couldn't keep it.

Jesus fulfills all covenants because it is impossible for man to do. The better promise (significantly so) is Jesus Himself.

 

[fhansen]

Some folks on CF believe the Holy Spirit indwelled believers in the Old Covenant.

But Jesus said...

37 Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink.
38 The one who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’”
39 But this He said in reference to the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Yet we read...

your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you shall name him John.
14 You will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice over his birth.
15 For he will be great in the sight of the Lord; and he will drink no wine or liquor, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit while still in his mother’s womb.

While I firmly believe that in Jesus we have the promised indwelling to come with a New Covenant, promised through Jeremiah (32:40), the nature of this New Covenant indwelling has to be significantly different than what John received.

Thoughts on this appreciated.

And yet Mary was blest/graced in ways that others are not. I believe that God gives grace-and this always involves the HS-to further His aims and purposes: the advancement of His kingdom. And much of this was done with specific figures down through time prior to Christ's coming. The uniqueness of Christs coming involves two things 1) the fullest revelation of God and His will for man, and 2) the outpouring of the Spirit in a universal fashion for any who believe, rather than for a specific purpose given in preparation for Christ's advent.