Help on understanding the Trinity..

[Meowzltov]

Do your homework and yes I already provided a link.

1. I have done my homework. It is the consensus of scholars that the 4000 is a crowd of Jews.

2. I read your link. The arguments are fallacious. IOW they don't prove what they pretend to prove.

So WHY is it important to you that the 4000 be gentiles? After all, Jesus came to the lost sheep of ISRAEL. It was only after his ascension that the Apostles brought the gospel to the Gentiles, BUT THEY DID. In God, there is no Jew nor Greek -- we are equal before his throne. I see no reason for you to need more than that.

 

[Meowzltov]

Thanks for the info but I already know what CF uses, as I had to agree to it. I'm not stated that Orthodoxy is not correct I have stated that people's interpretation or what they think is orthodox is incorrect. That's a big difference which apparently you don't understand.

When a person in the forum is essentially voicing the orthodox position (sometimes word for word, as in via crucis' case) then to tell them they are wrong is THE SAME THING as saying the orthodox position is wrong.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

• I asked a simple question and you compare apples to oranges. BTW as to your accusation that God protected the Jews well I guess you missed where God killed thousands of Jews at a time for breaking the law. Or perhaps you missed where God let the infidels kill thousands of Jews for again breaking His law.

Yes, God's people who are loyal to Him can be protected by God. Those who disobey Him are not protected. Don't really see the point you are trying to make here and how it helps to prove your case.



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[StanJ]

So far all you have done is state opinion. When people ask you questions, you tap dance around the anwers.....so yes, we understand.

Sniping means absolutely nothing, but only shows you have no real rebuttal.

 

[StanJ]

When a person in the forum is essentially voicing the orthodox position (sometimes word for word, as in via crucis' case) then to tell them they are wrong is THE SAME THING as saying the orthodox position is wrong.

Now isn't this funny, because I said the exact same thing about heretical statements and I was told by all the Orthodox people that I wasn't being called a heretic. It is just amazing how people can justify their positions without any real proof. If you wish to engage me in discussion, then do so, but sniping is not going to get anywhere with me.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Maybe the 9 church members at the Emmauel AME Church in Charleston just didn't have enough faith for God to protect them......

Nowhere did I say that God's people are not persecuted by God's will for His own glory. Most followers of Jesus Christ thru out history have been persecuted or killed for their faith. That does not mean that God cannot protect them if it suit's his plan or purposes. In fact, his followers had been released from prison. Paul had brought back a young man from death. Remember, Paul said to live is Christ and to die is gain. So what is death to a Christian? It is gain according to Paul. What do they gain? They get to be with Jesus. What else could a believer possibly desire or want more?

In other words, death is not a tragedy for a believer as you are making it out to be.


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[Bible Highlighter]

Here is a beautiful song I heard today that honors the Lord our God (who is triune).

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[ViaCrucis]

The word was not the Son of God until Jesus was conceived and it was the word that became flesh not the son of God. Matthew 1:20, John 1:14

The Son and Logos are identical. The Logos is the only-begotten of the Father, the One we call the Son because He is begotten of the Father.

The Logos never became the Son, the Logos is from all eternity the only-begotten Son of the Father because His Origin is from and of the Father.

To say otherwise is heretic.

Jesus was the only begotten Son of God which means he was conceived because of the Holy Spirit, Matthew 1:20 and born in the flesh, Jn 1:14

False. Jesus is the only-begotten Son of God because He is begotten of the Father from all eternity, the Son never came into existence, the Son always has been. He was Son in the beginning, He was Son two thousand years ago, He is Son today, and will be Son forever and ever.

Now please show me anywhere in the New Testament or even the old for that matter where it says that the word was the son of God before he was incarnated in Jesus.

Hebrews 1. The Son is the One by which God made all things; the Son is the One who is the exact imprint of the Father's being; the Son is the One to whom the Father says, "Your throne O God is forever and ever".

Most importantly, the Father is called Father because He has a Son. If the Son is not eternal and did not exist prior to the Incarnation then it follows that the Father did not become Father until the Incarnation. God never became Father, He has always been Father: "For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, from whom every family (πατριά) in heaven and on earth takes its name." (Ephesians 3:15) the very concept of fatherhood within the created order exists as a reflection of the Divine Paternity of God who is Father from all eternity, and He can only be Father from all eternity if He has a Son from all eternity. Which He does, as His Son is His Logos, and it is this One who united to our human nature in the womb of the Virgin Mary is Jesus the Christ, Lord and Savior.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

That still doesn't mean that the EO teaches Orthodox Christianity. The RCC is also considered Orthodox and they definitely don't teach Orthodox Christianity.

Both the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches teach orthodoxy.

My Orthodoxy comes from the Bible as it did for all those who started the church

No, your "orthodoxy" seems to exist according to your personal opinions about what the Bible says. Of course Christian orthodoxy is not determined by StanJ, StanJ isn't the arbiter of Christian orthodoxy; what is and is not orthodox was defined long before you or I were so much an idea in the minds of our ancestors; but has been set forth and received down through twenty centuries of faithful servants of Jesus Christ right up until the present day.

Rejecting that and going your own way is, by every metric, the definition of heresy.

Earlier in this thread I pointed out that merely speaking a heretical statement doesn't make one a heretic; however it would seem that your insistence on rejecting the very basic teachings of the Christian religion on something like this and to accuse the entire Church of God of not being orthodox and then claiming your own private orthodoxy makes you--I'm sorry--a heretic.

You can be offended if you want; you can shoot the messenger if you like. But the fact is that if you reject the basic, fundamental teachings of Christianity--and the eternal generation of the Son is one of those--then that places you outside of Christian orthodoxy and into heresy. And if you insist on your own way, against the teachings of Christ's Church, that by definition makes you a heretic--that's not an insult, or an ad hominem attack, but a description of reality.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[BornAgainChristian1]

1. I have done my homework. It is the consensus of scholars that the 4000 is a crowd of Jews.

2. I read your link. The arguments are fallacious. IOW they don't prove what they pretend to prove.

So WHY is it important to you that the 4000 be gentiles? After all, Jesus came to the lost sheep of ISRAEL. It was only after his ascension that the Apostles brought the gospel to the Gentiles, BUT THEY DID. In God, there is no Jew nor Greek -- we are equal before his throne. I see no reason for you to need more than that.

Then perhaps you you stop mistaking liberal scholars for Christian scholars. And I didn't say the 4,000 was"so" important you did I was just pointing out not everybody believes your churches doctrines and traditions as biblical. BTW Jesus did in fact say there are "OTHER" sheep so get back to your studying.

 

[BornAgainChristian1]

Yes, God's people who are loyal to Him can be protected by God. Those who disobey Him are not protected. Don't really see the point you are trying to make here and how it helps to prove your case.



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Really then why were so many Christians martyrs? And why were so many Prophets in the OT made martyrs? So are you claiming they were disobedient? Or perhaps you think most of the Apostles were disobedient because the majority of them were murdered for their "FAITH".

 

[JLB777]

The word was not the Son of God until Jesus was conceived and it was the word that became flesh not the son of God. Matthew 1:20, John 1:14
Jesus was the only begotten Son of God which means he was conceived because of the Holy Spirit, Matthew 1:20 and born in the flesh, Jn 1:14

Now please show me anywhere in the New Testament or even the old for that matter where it says that the word was the son of God before he was incarnated in Jesus.

But to the Son He says:

“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”

10 And:
“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Hebrews 1:8-10


The Son, laid the very foundation of the earth, and was begotten before the earth was created, being Himself the Creator of all things.

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. Colossians 1:15-17


And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:

God [the Son] was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16



JLB

 

[civilwarbuff]

Sniping means absolutely nothing, but only shows you have no real rebuttal.

Not sniping, just laying out what we see.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Nowhere did I say that God's people are not persecuted by God's will for His own glory. Most followers of Jesus Christ thru out history have been persecuted or killed for their faith. That does not mean that God cannot protect them if it suit's his plan or purposes. In fact, his followers had been released from prison. Paul had brought back a young man from death. Remember, Paul said to live is Christ and to die is gain. So what is death to a Christian? It is gain according to Paul. What do they gain? They get to be with Jesus. What else could a believer possibly desire or want more?

In other words, death is not a tragedy for a believer as you are making it out to be.


...

This is what I was replying to, especially the last line:
"So you are saying Jesus was wrong for rebuking Peter in trying to defend Jesus?
So you are saying Jesus could not have called down a legion of angels to protect him as a part of his rebuke of Peter acting violently?
So you are saying that death is more powerful than God?
So you are saying that God is not in control of when a life dies?
So you are saying that God is totally incapable of protecting His people?
Have you ever read the story of how God protected the Israelites with the crossing of the red sea?
Have you ever read about how Paul brought back somebody from the dead?

If you doubt God can protect you and your family, then I would have to ask you, "Where is your faith?""
Our faith protects us for the next life, not this one.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Really then why were so many Christians martyrs? And why were so many Prophets in the OT made martyrs? So are you claiming they were disobedient? Or perhaps you think most of the Apostles were disobedient because the majority of them were murdered for their "FAITH".

While this may be true of the New Testament, this is not true of the Old Testament. While there were a few exceptions to the rule like Abel, the general theme of the Old Testament is that if you obeyed God, your life would generally be protected. For was Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Joseph, Moses, and Job murdered for their faith? Surely not. How about Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego? Did God not protect them because of their faith? Or did they burn up in the furnace of fire? Did not God protect the Israelites from Pharoah with the miracle that took place at the Red Sea? Why did these same Israelites perish in the wilderness? Was it because of their obedience or disobedience?

As for the New Testament:
Again, I am fully aware that New Testament believers thru out history have been primarily martyred for their faith.
But again, I believe there are exceptions to the rule on this one, too. For rumor has it that the apostle John could not be killed.

Here is a quote from an article:

"We know little about John’s later life and death from the Bible. The most insightful bit of information comes from John 21 when the risen Christ was talking to Peter about Peter’s death. After Jesus told Peter that he would not live long Peter asked about John’s death. Jesus replied that if John lived until Christ’s return, that was not Peter’s concern. This was not a promise that John would live until the Lord returned, but it does seem to indicate that the Lord knew John would live a long time (John 21:19-23).

Tradition holds that John was sentenced to death in a boiling vat of oil. Yet he emerged unharmed from the experience. Again tradition tells us that John lived into old age dying sometime after AD 98. He is thought to have died in Ephesus."​

Also, while rumor has it that Paul was martyred for his faith, was not Paul protected from the bite of a snake? Do you think it was Paul's natural immune system or God that protected Paul? The point I am getting at is that God can protect His people when it suits His plan or purposes. In other words, I would consider it an honor to be persecuted and to die for my faith. Yet, I also would consider it even more of an honor to be protected from harm like other great men of God thru out history, too. Whatever God decides to do, let all praise, glory, honor and power be unto Him. Yes, I realize all who live Godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. Yes, I realize most true believers die today for their faith. But if God wants to protect one of His people instead of having them die, then that is also a reality that you have to accept, too. You believe God is not capable of protecting His people today. I disagree. The 144,000 is a great example. Those who are Raptured or taken up into the air alive will also be protected by God. So no. I don't believe you. God is all powerful and can protect His people today according to their faith (and if it serves God's will and plan).


Article for Source Quote:
http://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/john-the-apostle-bible-biography-facts-and-death/

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Our faith protects us for the next life, not this one.

As I stated before, I believe most New Testament believers thru out history have been martyred for their faith. But that does not mean there are not exceptions to the rule, though. I believe in some cases God can protect His people if it suits His plan and purposes. See my recent post (#196). In other words, I believe if I have faith that God can protect me and it suits His plan and will, God is more than capable to do so (And that He still can do so while under the New Testament). There is no rule in the New Testament saying that God's hands are tied in protecting His people now.


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[Meowzltov]

Then perhaps you you stop mistaking liberal scholars for Christian scholars.

I didn't say liberal scholars. I said scholars.

 

[huk945]

So of course I believe in the Son, Father and Holy Ghost, but I believe that they are all in one. Some Christian's like the one's who are into the Trinity believe that they are all separate spirits. Trinity is found no where in the Bible though.

..............................Essentially we are talking about how God reveals himself to mankind and when. Perhaps this will help. Most of my family is dead, but there was a time that in the course of a single day I revealed myself to my parents as a son, to my children as a father, and to my wife as a husband. That is probably a little simplistic, but it's a good enough illustration to get a person started if their in the weeds.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

• A Biblical Defense of the Trinity:
  (here are parts of an article from Blue Letter Bible):
  1. There Is One God
     1. One God: Explicit Statements
        1. OT: Deut. 4:35; 4:39; 32:39; 2 Sam. 22:32; Isa. 37:20: 43:10; 44:6-8; 45:5;45:14; 45:21-22; 46:9
        2. NT: John 5:44; Rom. 3:30; 16:27; 1 Cor. 8:4-6; Gal. 3:20; Eph. 4:6;1 Tim. 1:17; 1 Tim. 2:5; James 2:19; Jude 25
     2. None like God (in his essence)
        1. Explicit statements: Ex. 8:10; 9:14; 15:11; 2 Sam. 7:22; 1 Kgs. 8:23;1 Chr. 17:20; Psa. 86:8; Isa. 40:18, 40:25: 44:7; 46:5, 46:9; Jer. 10:6-7;Micah 7:18
        2. Being like God a Satanic lie: Gen. 3:5; Isa. 14:14; John 8:44
        3. Fallen man become "like God" only in that he took upon himself to know good and evil, not that he acquired godhood: Gen. 3:22
     3. Only one true God: 2 Chr. 15:3; Jer. 10:10; John 17:3; 1 Thess. 1:9;1 John 5:20-21
     4. All other "gods" are therefore false gods (idols), not gods at all: Deut. 32:21;1 Sam. 12:21; Psa. 96:5; Isa. 37:19; 41:23-24, 41:29; Jer. 2:11; 5:7; 16:20;1 Cor. 8:4; 10:19-20
  1. This One God Is Known in the OT as "Jehovah/Yahweh" ("The Lord")
     1. Texts where Jehovah is said to be elohim or el: Deut. 4:35, 4:39; Psa. 100:3; etc.
     2. Texts where the compound name "Jehovah God" (Yahweh Elohim) is used:Gen. 2:3; 9:26; 24:3; Ex. 3:15-18; 4:4; 2 Sam. 7:22, 7:25; etc.
     3. Only one Yahweh/Jehovah: Deut. 6:4; Mark 12:29
     4. Conclusion: Jehovah is the only God, the only El or Elohim
  2. God Is a Unique, Incomprehensible Being
     1. Only one God, thus unique: See I.A.
     2. None are even like God: See I.B.
     3. God cannot be fully comprehended: 1 Cor. 8:2-3
     4. God can only be known insofar as the Son reveals Him: Matt. 11:25-27;John 1:18
     5. Analogical language needed to describe God: Ezek. 1:26-28; Rev. 1:13-16
     6. God is transcendent, entirely distinct from and different than the universe, as the carpenter is distinct from the bench
        1. Separate from the world: Isa. 40:22; Acts 17:24
        2. Contrasted with the world: Psa. 102:25-27; 1 John 2:15-17
        3. Created the world: Gen. 1:1; Psa. 33:6; 102:25; Isa. 42:5; 44:24; John 1:3;Rom. 11:36; Heb. 1:2; 11:3
  3. Is God One Person?
     1. God is one God (cf. I above), one Yahweh, one Lord (cf. II above), one Spirit(John 4:24)
     2. However, the Bible never says that God is "one person"
        1. Heb. 1:3 KJV speaks of God's "person," but the word used here,hupostasis, is translated "substance" in Heb. 11:1 KJV; also in Heb. 1:3"God" refers specifically to the Father
        2. Gal. 3:20 speaks of God as one party in the covenant between God and man, not as one person
        3. Job 13:8 KJV speaks of God's "person," but ironically the Hebrew literally means "his faces"
     3. The use of singular and plural pronouns for God
        1. Over 7000 times God speaks or is spoken of with singular pronouns (I, He, etc.); but this is proper because God is a single individual being; thus these singular forms do not disprove that God exists as three "persons" as long as these persons are not separate beings
        2. At least three times God speaks of or to himself using plural pronouns (Gen. 1:26; 3:22; 11:7), and nontrinitarian interpretation cannot account for these occurrences.
           1. A plural reference to God and the angels is possible in Isa. 6:8, but not in the Genesis texts: in Gen 1:26 "our image" is explained in Gen 1:27, "in God's image"; in Gen 3:22 "like one of us" refers back to Gen 3:5, "like God."
           2. The "literary plural" (possibly, though never clearly, attested in Paul) is irrelevant to texts in which God is speaking, not writing.
           3. The "plural of deliberation" (as in "Let's see now…") is apparently unattested in biblical writings, and cannot explain Gen. 3:22 ("like one of us").
           4. The "plural of amplitude" or of "fullness" (which probably does explain the use of the plural form elohim in the singular sense of "God") is irrelevant to the use of plural pronouns, and again cannot explain Gen. 3:22.
           5. The "plural of majesty" is possibly attested in 1 Kgs. 12:9;2 Chron. 10:9; more likely Ezra 4:18; but none of these are certain; and again, it cannot explain Gen. 3:22; also nothing in the context of the Genesis texts suggests that God is being presented particularly as King.
     4. The uniqueness of God (cf. III above) should prepare us for the possibility that the one divine Being exists uniquely as a plurality of persons
  4. The Father of Jesus Christ Is God
     1. Explicit statements: John 17:3; 1 Cor. 8:6; etc.
     2. The expression, "the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ": 2 Cor. 1:3;Eph. 1:3; 1 Pet. 1:3
  5. Jesus Christ Is God
     1. Explicit statements
        1. Isa. 9:6; note Isa. 10:21. Translations which render "mighty hero," are inconsistent in their rendering of Isa. 10:21. Also note that Ezek. 32:21 is (a) not in the same context, as is Isa. 10:21, and (b) speaking of false gods, cf. I.G.5. above.
        2. John 1:1 Even if Jesus is here called "a god" (as some have argued), since there is only one God, Jesus is that God. However, the "a god" rendering is incorrect. Other passages using the Greek word for God (theos) in the same construction are always rendered "God": Mark 12:27;Luke 20:38; John 8:54; Phil 2:13; Heb. 11:16. Passages in which a shift occurs from ho theos ("the God") to theos ("God") never imply a shift in meaning: Mark 12:27; Luke 20:37-38; John 3:2; 13:3; Rom. 1:21;1 Thess. 1:9; Heb. 9:14; 1 Pet. 4:10-11
        3. John 1:18. The best manuscripts have "the unique God" (monogenês, frequently rendered "only-begotten," actually means "one of a kind," "unique," though in the NT always in the context of a son or daughter). Even if one translates "only-begotten," the idea is not of a "begotten god" as opposed to an "unbegotten god."
        4. John 20:28. Compare Rev. 4:11, where the same construction is used in the plural ("our") instead of the singular ("my"). See also Psa. 35:23. Note that Christ's response indicates that Thomas' acclamation was not wrong. Also note that John 20:17 does show that the Father was Jesus' "God" (due to Jesus becoming a man), but the words "my God" as spoken by Thomas later in the same chapter must mean no less than inJohn 20:17. Thus, what the Father is to Jesus in His humanity, Jesus is to Thomas (and therefore to us as well).
        5. Acts 20:28: "the church of God which He purchased with His own blood." The variant readings (e.g. "the church of the Lord") show that the original was understood to mean "His own blood," not "the blood of His own [Son]" (since otherwise no one would have thought to change it). Thus all other renderings are attempts to evade the startling clarity and meaning of this passage.
        6. Rom. 9:5. While grammatically this is not the only possible interpretation, the consistent form of doxologies in Scripture, as well as the smoothest reading of the text, supports the identification of Christ as "God" in this verse.
        7. Titus 2:13. Grammatically and contextually, this is one of the strongest proof-texts for the deity of Christ. Sharp's first rule, properly understood, proves that the text should be translated "our great God and Savior" (cf. same construction in Luke 20:37; Rev. 1:6; and many other passages). Note also that Paul always uses the word "manifestation" ("appearing") of Christ: 2 Thess. 2:8; 1 Tim. 6:14; 2 Tim. 1:10; 4:1, 4:8.
        8. Heb. 1:8. The rendering, "God is your throne," is nonsense - God is not a throne, He is the one who sits on the throne! Also, "God is your throne," if taken to mean God is the source of one's rule, could be said about any angelic ruler - but Hebrews 1 is arguing that Jesus is superior to the angels.
        9. 2 Pet. 1:1. The same construction is used here as in Titus 2:13; see the parallel passages in 2 Pet. 1:11; 2:20; 3:2, 3:18.
        10. 1 John 5:20. Note that the most obvious antecedent for "this" is Jesus Christ. Also note that the "eternal life" is Christ, as can be seen fromJohn 1:2.
     2. Jesus is Jehovah/Yahweh
        1. Rom. 10:9-13: Note the repeated "for," which links these verses closely together. The "Lord" of Rom. 10:13 must be the "Lord" of Rom. 10:9,10:12.
        2. Phil. 2:9-11. In context, the "name that is above every name" is "Lord" (Phil. 2:11), i.e., Jehovah.
        3. Heb. 1:10: Here God the Father addresses the Son as "Lord," in a quotation from Psa. 102:25 (cf. Psa. 102:24, where the person addressed is called "God"). Since here the Father addresses the Son as "Lord," this cannot be explained away as a text in which a creature addresses Christ as God/Lord in a merely representational sense.
        4. 1 Pet. 2:3-4: This verse is nearly an exact quotation of Psa. 34:8 a, where "Lord" is Jehovah. From 1 Pet. 2:4-8 it is also clear that "the Lord" in1 Pet. 2:3 is Jesus.
        5. 1 Pet. 3:14-15: these verses are a clear reference to Isa. 8:12-13, where the one who is to be regarded as holy is Jehovah.
        6. Texts where Jesus is spoken of as the "one Lord" (cf. Deut. 6:4;Mark 12:29): 1 Cor. 8:6; Eph. 4:5; cf. Rom. 10:12; 1 Cor. 12:5.
     3. Jesus has the titles of God
        1. Titles belonging only to God
           1. The first and the last: Rev. 1:17; 22:13; cf. Isa. 44:6
           2. King of kings and Lord of lords: 1 Tim. 6:15; Rev. 17:14; 19:16
        2. Titles belonging in the ultimate sense only to God
           1. Savior: Luke 2:11; John 4:42; 1 John 4:14; Titus 2:13, cf.Titus 2:10; etc.; cf. Isa. 43:11; 45:21-22; 1 Tim. 4:10; on Jesus becoming the source of salvation; Heb. 5:9, cf. Ex. 15:2;Psa. 118:14, 118:21
           2. Shepherd: John 10:11; Heb. 13:20; cf. Psa. 23:1; Isa. 40:11
           3. Rock: 1 Cor. 10:4; cf. Isa. 44:8
     4. Jesus received the honors due to God alone
        1. Honor: John 5:23
        2. Love: Matt. 10:37
        3. Prayer: John 14:14 (text debated, but in any case it is Jesus whoanswers the prayer); Acts 1:24-25; 7:59-60 (cf. Luke 23:34, 23:46);Rom. 10:12-13; 1 Cor. 1:2; 2 Cor. 12:8-10 (where "the Lord" must be Jesus, cf. 2 Cor. 12:9); 2 Thess. 2:16-17; etc.
        4. Worship (proskuneô): Matt. 28:17; Heb. 1:6 (cf. Psa. 97:7); cf. Matt 4:10
        5. Religious or sacred service (latreuô): Rev. 22:13
        6. Doxological praise: 2 Tim. 4:18; 2 Pet. 3:18; Rev. 1:5-6; 5:13
        7. Faith: John 3:16; 14:1; etc.
     5. Jesus does the works of God
        1. Creation: John 1:3; 1 Cor. 8:6; Col. 1:16-17; Heb. 1:2; Rev. 3:14 (wherearchê probably means ruler); on "through" and "in" cf. Rom. 11:36;Heb. 2:10; Acts 17:28; cf. also Isa. 44:24
        2. Sustains the universe: Col. 1:17; Heb. 1:3, 1:11-12
        3. Salvation:
           1. In General: See C.2.a. above
           2. Forgives sins: Matt. 9:1-8; Mark 2:1-12; Luke 5:17-26; note that Jesus forgives sins not committed against Him.
        4. All of them: John 5:17-29 (including judgment, cf. Matt. 25:31-46;2 Cor. 5:10)
     6. Jesus has all the incommunicable attributes of God
        1. All of them: John 1:1; Phil. 2:6; Col. 1:15; 2:9; Heb. 1:3
        2. Self-existent: John 5:26
        3. Unchangeable: Heb. 1:10-12 (in the same sense as YHWH); Heb. 13:8
        4. Eternal: John 1:1; 8:58; 17:5; Col. 1:17; Heb. 1:2
        5. Omnipresent: Matt. 18:20; 28:20; John 3:13; Eph. 1:23; 4:10; Col. 3:11
        6. Omniscient: John 16:30; 21:17; cf. John 2:23-24
        7. Incomprehensible: Matt. 11:25-27
     7. Jesus is "equal with God"
        1. John 5:18: Although John is relating what the Jews understood Jesus to be claiming, the context shows they were basically right: In John 5:17claimed to be exempt from the Sabbath along with His Father, and inJohn 5:19-29 Jesus claimed to do all of the world of the Father and to deserve the same honor as the Father
        2. Phil. 2:6: Jesus did not attempt to seize recognition by the world as being equal with God, but attained that recognition by humbling himself and being exalted by the Father (Phil. 2:7-11)
     8. Jesus is the Son of God
        1. "Son" in Scripture can mean simply one possessing the nature of something, whether literal or figurative (e.g. "Son of man," "sons of thunder," "sons of disobedience," cf. Mark 3:7; Eph. 2:1).
        2. Usually when "son of" is used in relation to a person (son of man, son of Abraham, son of David, etc.) the son possesses the nature of his father.
        3. Jesus is clearly not the literal Son of God, i.e., He was not physically procreated by God.
        4. On the other hand, Jesus is clearly the Son of God in a unique sense (cf. "only-begotten son," John 1:14; 3:16, 3:18; 1 John 4:9) and in a preeminent sense (i.e. the term is more fitting for Him than for anyone else).
        5. Scripture is explicit that the Son possesses God's essence or nature (cf. F. above).
        6. Jesus' repeated claim to be the Son of God was consistently understood by the Jewish leaders as a blasphemous claim to equality with God, an understanding Jesus never denied: John 5:17-23; 8:58-59; 10:30-39;19:7; Matt. 26:63-65.
        7. Jesus is therefore by nature God's Son, not God's creation or God's servant; Jesus is God's Son who became a servant for our sake and for the Father's glory (John 13:13-15; 17:4; Phil. 2:6-11; Heb. 1:4-13; 3:1-6;5:8; etc.).
           
           
           • 1. The Holy Spirit Is God
                1. Equated with God: Acts 5:3-4; 2 Cor. 3:17-18
                2. Has the incommunicable attributes of God
                   1. Eternal: Heb. 9:14
                   2. Omnipresent: Psa. 139:7
                   3. Omniscient: 1 Cor. 2:10-11
                3. Involved in all the works of God
                   1. Creation: Gen. 1:2; Psa. 104:30
                   2. Incarnation: Matt. 1:18, 1:20; Luke 1:35
                   3. Resurrection: Rom. 1:4; 8:11
                   4. Salvation: Rom. 8:1-27
                4. Is a person
                   1. Has a name: Matt. 28:19; note that even though "name" might be used of a nonperson, here, in conjunction with the Father and the Son, it must be used of a person
                   2. Is the "Helper"
                      1. Is another Helper: John 14:16, cf. 1 John 2:1; note also that "Helper" (paraklêtos) was used in Greek always or almost always of persons.
                      2. Is sent in Jesus' name, to teach: John 14:26.
                      3. Will arrive, and then bear witness: John 15:26-27.
                      4. Is sent by Christ to convict of sin, will speak not on his own but on behalf of Christ, will glorify Christ, thus exhibiting humility:John 16:7-14.
                   3. Is the Holy Spirit, in contrast to unholy spirits: Mark 3:22-30, cf.Matt. 12:32; 1 Tim. 4:1; 1 John 3:24-4:6.
                   4. Speaks, is quoted as speaking: John 16:13; Acts 1:16; 8:29; 10:19; 11:12;13:2; 16:6; 20:23; 21:11; 28:25-27; 1 Tim. 4:1; Heb. 3:7-11; 10:15-17;1 Pet. 1:11; Rev. 2:7, 2:11, 2:17, 2:29; 3:6, 3:13, 3:22.
                   5. Can be lied to: Acts 5:3
                   6. Can make decisions, judgments: Acts 15:28
                   7. Intercedes for Christians with the Father: Rom. 8:26
                   8. "Impersonal" language used of the Spirit paralled by language used of other persons
                      1. The Holy Spirit as fire: Matt. 3:11; Luke 3:16; cf. Ex. 3:2-4;Deut. 4:24; 9:3; Heb. 12:29
                      2. The Holy Spirit poured out: Acts 2:17, 2:33; cf. Isa. 53:12;Phil. 2:17; 2 Tim. 4:6
                      3. Being filled with the Holy Spirit: Eph. 5:18, etc.; cf. Eph. 3:17, 3:19;4:10

Article Source:
https://www.blueletterbible.org/comm/bowman_robert/trinity/trinity.cfm

 

[stevenfrancis]

There is a story that St. Augustine was walking on the beach contemplating the mystery of the Trinity. Then he saw a boy in front of him who had dug a hole in the sand and was going out to the sea again and again and bringing some water to pour into the hole. St. Augustine asked him, “What are you doing?” “I’m going to pour the entire ocean into this hole.” “That is impossible, the whole ocean will not fit in the hole you have made” said St. Augustine. The boy replied, “And you cannot fit the Trinity in your tiny little brain.” The story concludes by saying that the boy vanished because St. Augustine had been talking to an angel.