Help me understand this

[CherubRam]

Wowzers!!! I can't begin to understand the reception I've gotten on this question!
I thought I was asking a good question and in a respectful tone.
At this point, I don't even care and I won't be back here looking for any more help. Sorry I bothered you all. Carry on.........

Hello Rachel.
I apologize for being so rude, it was uncalled for. I do not know what I was thinking when I wrote that. Your question was a indeed a good question. I have not been getting enough sleep which led to foot in mouth disease. Will you please forgive me?
I'm sorry, Michael.

 

[kcmonseysr]

I notice that I got no response from this. I wanted to be more specific. This site’s owners have uploaded a translation of the Babylonian Talmud to its servers in order to link to it and use it as a resource to prove that Jews are racist and have the goal of genocide. Look at this [website page] as an example of such a use of their site. The site is known to be anti-Semitic and to want to blame Jews for all kinds of outrages, and use of the site as a reference for the Talmud when better sites are available is just careless. Please, pay better attention to the sites that you use and that you reference for use by other people.

Yonah - thanks much for the "heads-up" on this site. There's enough confusion propagated to not need this one added to the mix.

Blessings,

Ken

 

[annier]

Exactly!

Exactly??
Do the Rabbis proclaim they are being told from heaven what God tells them to say?
With Christ having been conceived by the Holy Spirit, and having God himself as his father, telling him what to say and do, I do not know why would one think he spake exactly as a Rabbi speaking oral law? As if his nature were no different, nor his words no different than that of mere men. He claimed he spoke the words of God his father did he not?.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

Hello Rachel.
I apologize for being so rude, it was uncalled for. I do not know what I was thinking when I wrote that. Your question was a indeed a good question. I have not been getting enough sleep which led to foot in mouth disease. Will you please forgive me?
I'm sorry, Michael.

How sweet.


Look Ya'll, I think Cherub is human after all.

 

[yedida]

I am a Gentile, and I converted to the religion of Jesus.


I reject all the ways of other Pagan Gods.

We both know that people are going to keep a certain Sabbath, we both know that people are going to celebrate the birth of Christ.

We both know that people are going to keep the Passover as a Memorial to Jesus.


So tell me, as a gentile, what are my Sabbaths, what are my holidays, what traditions should I keep, what rituals should I keep?


We both know that people are going to have holidays, and we both know that believers in Christ are going to keep a memorial to Jesus birth, and death.


Is your instruction that I should keep the traditions of Jews, Jewish rituals, Jewish Sabbath and feasts?


If not, then please tell me what traditions and rituals I should keep.

If not, then tell me what the Sabbath is that I should keep, tell me what holy day I should keep to remember Christ in his birth and his death?

Not to mention all the other holy days.


Should I keep the Sabbath of God, should I keep the Pesach and its traditions?

Should I keep the feast of Tabernacles made for gentiles?



I am trying to figure out what you mean by adopting Jewish tradition and custom.

So tell me, as a gentile, what should my Holy days, traditions and customs be after I have converted to the Jewish Messiah of Jerusalem.[/QUO

Exactly!! It's the gentiles that need to convert, not the Jews! So, yes, please, someone in the know, tell us poor gentiles, just what our roles are supposed to be in all this. I'm sick and tired of all the quibbling over it.

 

[yedida]

I am a Gentile, and I converted to the religion of Jesus.


I reject all the ways of other Pagan Gods.

We both know that people are going to keep a certain Sabbath, we both know that people are going to celebrate the birth of Christ.

We both know that people are going to keep the Passover as a Memorial to Jesus.


So tell me, as a gentile, what are my Sabbaths, what are my holidays, what traditions should I keep, what rituals should I keep?


We both know that people are going to have holidays, and we both know that believers in Christ are going to keep a memorial to Jesus birth, and death.


Is your instruction that I should keep the traditions of Jews, Jewish rituals, Jewish Sabbath and feasts?


If not, then please tell me what traditions and rituals I should keep.

If not, then tell me what the Sabbath is that I should keep, tell me what holy day I should keep to remember Christ in his birth and his death?

Not to mention all the other holy days.


Should I keep the Sabbath of God, should I keep the Pesach and its traditions?

Should I keep the feast of Tabernacles made for gentiles?



I am trying to figure out what you mean by adopting Jewish tradition and custom.

So tell me, as a gentile, what should my Holy days, traditions and customs be after I have converted to the Jewish Messiah of Jerusalem.

Exactly!! It's the gentiles that need to convert, not the Jews! So, yes, please, someone in the know, tell us poor gentiles, just what our roles are supposed to be in all this. I'm sick and tired of all the quibbling over it.

 

[CherubRam]

How sweet.


Look Ya'll, I think Cherub is human after all.

Now you know that I am "different from those who sleep not."

 

[yedida]

I couldn't be more confused.
So far all the Messianics who have replied are saying we're not under the Law.
And how do you differentiate between the God's eternal Law and the Law of Moses, which contain the 10 Commandments??

I don't see any differentiation between God's Laws and the Laws of Moses. It was Hashem who gave all of the laws. Nothing came from Moses himself. He was atop Sinai for 40 days and nights. Did it take Hashem that long to write the 10 on the tablets? I think it took that long to write all of the 613. They are all Hashem's Instructions, for the priesthood, for men, for women, for slaves and bondservants, for captured peoples; all of it.
We can break them down into categories of civil, moral, and Levitical, but not who is the Author of them all.
That's just my 10cents worth. And I follow all that I, as a woman, in the USA in 2014, can.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

Exactly!! It's the gentiles that need to convert, not the Jews! So, yes, please, someone in the know, tell us poor gentiles, just what our roles are supposed to be in all this. I'm sick and tired of all the quibbling over it.

Yup, Seems like it would be an easy question to answer, but people who talk against Jewish customs can never answer this question.

The question makes them choose Babylon or Jerusalem.

They choose Babylon, but for some reason, they don't want to actually say,'' Yes, you need to keep the customs of Babylon and Egypt, you need to keep the Sabbaths and traditions of the Babylonian Messiah.''

And yet, although they cannot answer the question, they still choose Babylon, and after all we are told and warned about Babylon, they still choose Babylon.

 

[visionary]

Yup, Seems like it would be an easy question to answer, but people who talk against Jewish customs can never answer this question.

The question makes them choose Babylon or Jerusalem.

They choose Babylon, but for some reason, they don't want to actually say,'' Yes, you need to keep the customs of Babylon and Egypt, you need to keep the Sabbaths and traditions of the Babylonian Messiah.''

And yet, although they cannot answer the question, they still choose Babylon, and after all we are told and warned about Babylon, they still choose Babylon.

If the Jews would open the door and let the gentiles into God's Kingdom, I think we all would be a lot happier. But there is too many who shut the door ..

Matthew 23:13, Jesus said "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to."

When we figure out who is blocking what, how, why and where... then those who are trying to enter into the kingdom of heaven will no longer allow these pharisaical attitude of exclusiveness to continue to invade Messianic Judaism.

 

[mercy1061]

If the Jews would open the door and let the gentiles into God's Kingdom, I think we all would be a lot happier. But there is too many who shut the door ..When we figure out who is blocking what, how, why and where... then those who are trying to enter into the kingdom of heaven will no longer allow these pharisaical attitude of exclusiveness to continue to invade Messianic Judaism.

Now why would the Pharisees close the door to keep themselves from entering the kingdom of heaven? After the door to Noah's ark was closed, no man could open the door!
How did Noah's family including all the animals enter the new world or kingdom when the door to the ark was closed?

 

[HannibalFlavius]

If the Jews would open the door and let the gentiles into God's Kingdom, I think we all would be a lot happier. But there is too many who shut the door ..When we figure out who is blocking what, how, why and where... then those who are trying to enter into the kingdom of heaven will no longer allow these pharisaical attitude of exclusiveness to continue to invade Messianic Judaism.

But the door isn't closed at all.

I don't mind the attitude of exclusiveness either.

I think the point is that a gentile comes to a realization that he is the son of his father, and he needs to give his will up to a Jew.

So he does, and he makes a Jew rule and reign in his life.

The Jew implants a seed after the gentile has become a virgin, the seed is the child of God, and the virgin begins teaching the child while she is with child.

The child drinks the milk of the word, and then he learns to eat the meat.

He becomes a young man, and he seeks out the hidden things of God.

Then the young man becomes a grown man, and he says,'' Come, Come and drink of my blood, come and eat of my flesh.''

The gentile has went from a son of the devil to a virgin, the virgin raised a baby who grew up to be a young man, and the young man became wise, and then he becomes a father saying,'' I will gather many wives for the Lord, and all of them shall have children.''

Hopefully the wives that are gathered produce a male child who then becomes a young man.

There is no blood.

 

[visionary]

Now why would the Pharisees close the door to keep themselves from entering the kingdom of heaven? After the door to Noah's ark was closed, no man could open the door!
How did Noah's family including all the animals enter the new world or kingdom when the door to the ark was closed?

There is an invitation to enter into the kingdom in heaven. The Noah's ark was not a kingdom or heaven. There is an earthly kingdom and rightly so, but there is a whole universe out there waiting for us.

It all is God's kingdom. IT is all God's promised land. "There are many mansions, I go to prepare a place, and will come again....". Enoch went to be with God. Enoch in the Book of Enoch talks about these worlds in God's Universe that he visited. Elijah went to be with God.

I think Yeshua was pointing out a flaw in the Pharisee theology. They wouldn't believe God is bigger and has bigger plans for His people than the removal of whatever pagan oppressors were ruling them. By not seeing the kingdom of heaven, and shhhh ing all those who might suggest it, they were closing the door and stopping many from entering into an understanding of transformation, and transfiguration like Enoch and Elijah.

 

[yedida]

Had the Jews accepted Yeshua's invitation, the Kingdom would have come at that time, and today, 2014 would be way different than it is. The Jews were told to share the Torah with the nations and they failed; they had the opportunity to call down the Kingdom of God in the 1st century, again they failed; then they were told to share the gospel, what Yeshua taught, Torah, with the nations - did they succeed? Is Christian theology what Yeshua taught?
The Kingdom of God was passed along to the nations (not taken away from the Jews) to share with the whole world, and look at what we did with that Good News!!!! sheesh......people just aren't very bright I guess.....

 

[mercy1061]

There is an invitation to enter into the kingdom in heaven. The Noah's ark was not a kingdom or heaven. There is an earthly kingdom and rightly so, but there is a whole universe out there waiting for us.

It all is God's kingdom. IT is all God's promised land. "There are many mansions, I go to prepare a place, and will come again....". Enoch went to be with God. Enoch in the Book of Enoch talks about these worlds in God's Universe that he visited. Elijah went to be with God.

I think Yeshua was pointing out a flaw in the Pharisee theology. They wouldn't believe God is bigger and has bigger plans for His people than the removal of whatever pagan oppressors were ruling them. By not seeing the kingdom of heaven, and shhhh ing all those who might suggest it, they were closing the door and stopping many from entering into an understanding of transformation, and transfiguration like Enoch and Elijah.

When did Pharisees try to silence those who might suggest the kingdom of heaven? If I remember correctly it was Pharisee Nicodemus that Yeshua told about entering the kingdom of heaven. I never said that Noah's ark was a kingdom, how did Noah's family enter the new world or kingdom when the door to the ark was closed? Did they enter the new world after the flood through the door? Why would the Pharisees close the door to keep themselves from entering the kingdom of heaven? Did John see a new heaven and new earth without the sea? Will anyone be allowed to enter the new Jerusalem that came down from heaven, if they do not obey the commandments hidden inside the ark of the covenant? Contrary to popular oppinion, the door to Noah's ark must remain closed.

 

[visionary]

When did Pharisees try to silence those who might suggest the kingdom of heaven? If I remember correctly it was Pharisee Nicodemus that Yeshua told about entering the kingdom of heaven. I never said that Noah's ark was a kingdom, how did Noah's family enter the new world or kingdom when the door to the ark was closed? Did they enter the new world after the flood through the door? Why would the Pharisees close the door to keep themselves from entering the kingdom of heaven? Did John see a new heaven and new earth without the sea? Will anyone be allowed to enter the new Jerusalem that came down from heaven, if they do not obey the commandments hidden inside the ark of the covenant? Contrary to popular oppinion, the door to Noah's ark must remain closed.

Talk to a Jew about the kingdom or the promised land. Then you will understand.

 

[mercy1061]

Talk to a Jew about the kingdom or the promised land. Then you will understand.

I just dont like all the attacks on the Pharisees.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

It is the same today, wait, reverse that.

It is the same today, only, Gentiles and Jews have reversed positions.


Jesus is coming a second time, and where Jews were in place the first time, the gentiles are in place the second time, and its the same thing.

If Jesus was to show up to the Christian world, the Christian world would no doubt say,'' THAT is not the Messiah.''


To me, it looks like the same circumstances, only reversed.


What do Christians do to draw people into the kingdom?

They go out of their way teaching a Messiah and a way that has nothing to do with the Jewish Messiah.

They put all sorts of things on a convert that shouldn't be done, strange rules, traditions and ways that they invented themselves.

And if a true follower is found, they would pick up rocks and throw them saying,'' Those ways are ended, you are a devil, you are bringing division.''



Looks the same to me, only reversed.

 

[visionary]

I just dont like all the attacks on the Pharisees.

It is not an attack on Pharisees. It is about understanding their theology on the matter of the promised land.

 

[aniello]

It is the same today, wait, reverse that.

It is the same today, only, Gentiles and Jews have reversed positions.


Jesus is coming a second time, and where Jews were in place the first time, the gentiles are in place the second time, and its the same thing.

If Jesus was to show up to the Christian world, the Christian world would no doubt say,'' THAT is not the Messiah.''


To me, it looks like the same circumstances, only reversed.


What do Christians do to draw people into the kingdom?

They go out of their way teaching a Messiah and a way that has nothing to do with the Jewish Messiah.

They put all sorts of things on a convert that shouldn't be done, strange rules, traditions and ways that they invented themselves.

And if a true follower is found, they would pick up rocks and throw them saying,'' Those ways are ended, you are a devil, you are bringing division.''



Looks the same to me, only reversed.

Cycles?