Help me understand this

[danny ski]

I think it is quite clear myself, but others may disagree.
Authority to give law at the mouth rested with the priesthood.
De 17:8 If there arise a matter too hard for thee in judgment, between blood and blood, between plea and plea, and between stroke and stroke, being matters of controversy within thy gates: then shalt thou arise, and get thee up into the place which the LORD thy God shall choose;
9 And thou shalt come unto the priests the Levites, and unto the judge that shall be in those days, and enquire; and they shall shew thee the sentence of judgment:
10 And thou shalt do according to the sentence, which they of that place which the LORD shall choose shall shew thee; and thou shalt observe to do according to all that they inform thee:
11 According to the sentence of the law which they shall teach thee, and according to the judgment which they shall tell thee, thou shalt do: thou shalt not decline from the sentence which they shall shew thee, to the right hand, nor to the left.
12 And the man that will do presumptuously, and will not hearken unto the priest that standeth to minister there before the LORD thy God, or unto the judge, even that man shall die: and thou shalt put away the evil from Israel. {and will … : Heb. not to hearken}

De 21:5 And the priests the sons of Levi shall come near; for them the LORD thy God hath chosen to minister unto him, and to bless in the name of the LORD; and by their word shall every controversy and every stroke be tried: {word: Heb. mouth}

Mal 2:7 For the priest’s lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.



God fearing Gentiles learned the law too. God fearing Gentiles in Judaism are not lawless.

I vehemently disagree with the last statement. A gentile is not lawless nor does a gentile need Torah to lead righteous life. The bar for righteousness is not set very high after all. In the Torah and outside of it.

 

[annier]

I vehemently disagree with the last statement. A gentile is not lawless nor does a gentile need Torah to lead righteous life. The bar for righteousness is not set very high after all. In the Torah and outside of it.

Well, as a believer in Jesus, I do disagree with you on your points here.

 

[visionary]

I vehemently disagree with the last statement. A gentile is not lawless nor does a gentile need Torah to lead righteous life. The bar for righteousness is not set very high after all. In the Torah and outside of it.

Torah defines righteousness, how can it be determined without it?

 

[HannibalFlavius]

I vehemently disagree with the last statement. A gentile is not lawless nor does a gentile need Torah to lead righteous life. The bar for righteousness is not set very high after all. In the Torah and outside of it.

We are just told that the Jews sit in the seat of Moses, and they are the authority, we are to do whatever is asked of us.

But what would the high priest ask of a Gentile?

Nothing.

I think we were just simply meant to stand in support of the religion of Jews and the circumcision church.

Not that we have to do anything, but to reject all the ways of any other Gods, and if we did want to have a celebration, or a memorial, it should be of god's Sabbaths and memorials.

The prophets talk very highly of the foreigners and strangers who take on the Sabbaths of God and his ways as to gaining entrance into the same inheritance and given a name even better than children.

The responsibility of Jews, in my opinion is this.

That Jews should be a nation of kings and priests, and this is done by opening up the gates and enlarging the nations saying,'' Become as us, become our family, and we will be that little whisper that guides, we will be your fathers.''

This is all that I claim Jesus came to do, to open a door whereby he enlarged the nation of Israel by saying,'' come unto me, and I will be the priest who stands for you.''

I think all Jews should go out and seek converts and people who love the God of Israel and his ways.

I think Jews have a responsibility to establish the feast of Tabernacles for all nations to become one.



Zechariah showing all nations keeping the feast of Tabernacles is not the only festival that gentiles are to keep.

The same is said about Passover in regards to Assyrians and Egyptians keeping Passover and going through the same motions as did Israel when they came up out of Egypt.

That in the end, Israel is a third with Egypt and Assyria, and supposedly, a temple built in Egypt because an alter is there.

But these 3 become one in the hand of God, and God blesses them saying,'' God bless Egypt MY PEOPLE, and God bless Assyria the work of my hands, and God bless Israel, mine inheritance.


Nevertheless, we are simply told to do what the priests would tell us to do, and that is, nothing much of anything.


But one who looks into the great rewards that are offered to Gentiles, one would have to consider exactly what it all means when it says,'' God's Final Judgments against the Wicked
…20"Then they shall bring all your brethren from all the nations as a grain offering to the LORD, on horses, in chariots, in litters, on mules and on camels, to My holy mountain Jerusalem," says the LORD, "just as the sons of Israel bring their grain offering in a clean vessel to the house of the LORD. 21"I will also take some of them for priests and for Levites," says the LORD.''


It looks like an evolution of things where the Jewish nation becomes the fruit that gentiles offer, in a symbolic priesthood, by the gentile taking on the Jew, as family.

Just my opinions.

 

[danny ski]

Torah defines righteousness, how can it be determined without it?

Sure it can be determined without it. Treat others well and persue justice is not exclusive to Judaism or Christianity, or any religion for that matter. Most people can recognize injustice and unethical behavior without the help of religious dogma.

 

[danny ski]

Well, as a believer in Jesus, I do disagree with you on your points here.

What or who we believe in has nothing to do with this. We either do the right thing or not.

 

[Steve Petersen]

What or who we believe in has nothing to do with this. We either do the right thing or not.

I think there is a vital difference between Judaism and Christianity that might be contributing to your confusion:

Christianity is creed over deed these days. I would say Judaism is the reverse. This is just a generalization and I realize there are exceptions.

 

[danny ski]

I think there is a vital difference between Judaism and Christianity that might be contributing to your confusion:

Christianity is creed over deed these days. I would say Judaism is the reverse. This is just a generalization and I realize there are exceptions.

The message of the Torah is "do" from Adam to Moses. What difference does it make what I believe, if I do evil to other people, don't give to charity, etc?

 

[Steve Petersen]

The message of the Torah is "do" from Adam to Moses. What difference does it make what I believe, if I do evil to other people, don't give to charity, etc?

'zactly!

That was Jesus' attitude also in the parable. If this ain't straight out of Jewish thinking I don't know what qualifies.

Matthew 31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

 

[aniello]

The message of the Torah is "do" from Adam to Moses. What difference does it make what I believe, if I do evil to other people, don't give to charity, etc?

'zactly!

That was Jesus' attitude also in the parable. If this ain't straight out of Jewish thinking I don't know what qualifies.

and , both.

Mic 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

 

[HannibalFlavius]

and , both.

Mic 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

Yup, ya know it takes a long time for a gentile to even get passed all the preconceived ideas of what they think observant Jews believe.

I was shocked when I made friends with some observant Jews, and then to slowly get passed what I thought, they thought.

When Christians think of how Jews think, we come with all these preconceived ideas about sacrifice, this and that, when the truth is often, that Christianity is way more legalistic than Jews.

 

[visionary]

Sure it can be determined without it. Treat others well and persue justice is not exclusive to Judaism or Christianity, or any religion for that matter. Most people can recognize injustice and unethical behavior without the help of religious dogma.

Really, our country was founded on the Judo-Christian faith.... upon this foundation were our laws written, like the constitution.... If it wasn't for that, we would have who knows what kind of laws governing us, and since we have taken God and the Ten Commandments out ... we are seeing the results, ... laws that a righteous person cringes... because it isn't "biblical"... "Everyone goes their own way"

 

[Steve Petersen]

Yup, ya know it takes a long time for a gentile to even get passed all the preconceived ideas of what they think observant Jews believe.

I was shocked when I made friends with some observant Jews, and then to slowly get passed what I thought, they thought.

When Christians think of how Jews think, we come with all these preconceived ideas about sacrifice, this and that, when the truth is often, that Christianity is way more legalistic than Jews.

Even a bit legalistic about grace sometimes!

 

[annier]

What or who we believe in has nothing to do with this.

Sure it does. Even Judaism teaches Differing law for differing people. Even the Preists have different laws than the people.

We either do the right thing or not.

We all have certain commandments in common yes.

 

[aniello]

Really, our country was founded on the Judo-Christian faith.... upon this foundation were our laws written, like the constitution.... If it wasn't for that, we would have who knows what kind of laws governing us, and since we have taken God and the Ten Commandments out ... we are seeing the results, ... laws that a righteous person cringes... because it isn't "biblical"... "Everyone goes their own way"

Unfortunately, from the time of the colonial founders of this nation on, there was a very selective cafeteria style 'pick the laws you like' type establishment of U.S. Constitutional fundamentals. Compared to Torah the U.S. Constitution and its amendments is rather incomplete.

Now, as the erosion of the Constitution continues, we are headed irretrievably into the sewer, increment by increment.

As a Jew whose father was Lakota I might be rejoicing as this nation 'does it to itself'. However, I have children, grandchildren and, now, 2 great grandsons and one great granddaughter, I love them all. What shall become them, I agonize over.

America's Original Sin, to use a term I despise, and it is not slavery, commences very early on whether it be the Spanish in the 1500s, the Virginians from 1607, or the worst, the Puritans of Massachusetts from 1620 on. The sin is GENOCIDE, the American Holocaust. America's boundless greed is now reaping its crop.

Against the Wisdom of Torah, in reality, America practiced Lawlessness, and continues, to this very day.

Y'all enjoy yourselves, it's later than you think.

Ah, a little compilation of trifles, published 1904 by the gov't., all of them abrogated by our beloved gov't. KAPPLER'S INDIAN AFFAIRS: LAWS AND TREATIES

Amuse yourselves. They merely followed King Saul's precedent, from sea to shining sea, tra-la-la------cha,cha.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

Even a bit legalistic about grace sometimes!

Grace and abundant mercy is overwhelming, and it just about appears that salvation almost comes to everyone in my eyes.

But salvation alone is for suckers who are not aware of the race that we run, the test in which we strive to be overcomers.

The sadness that the race is not known to the majority is very sad.

The majority do not overcome this world, they will not be in the first resurrection, but overcomers will be born on firstfruits.


Most people are happy about just being in there somewhere, but the truth is that they will all stand in the flames when their works will be tested.

The many are saved, but only as one who goes through a fire.

This means that they have salvation, but it also mean that they will weep and gnash they teeth in the outer court.

Salvation and grace is one thing, and being an overcomer who has obtained the promises given to Jesus by his father, and then given to the overcomer is something else.

I think most people just say,'' Jesus , Jesus'' but the majority do not know Jesus, or that they are in a race.

It should be explained to people what the goals actually are.


There is a big difference between believers and overcomers in the church, in Revelation.


Even Jesus tells us to watch or we will not know the hour and day of his coming, but how many watch?

They don't even know what to watch.


The difference between the Messiah coming to a person like a thief in the night is vastly different than a person who watches, and the outcome is completely different.

 

[danny ski]

Really, our country was founded on the Judo-Christian faith.... upon this foundation were our laws written, like the constitution.... If it wasn't for that, we would have who knows what kind of laws governing us, and since we have taken God and the Ten Commandments out ... we are seeing the results, ... laws that a righteous person cringes... because it isn't "biblical"... "Everyone goes their own way"

Well, I;m not an American and I don't know much about its history. I did study few writings of Thomas Jefferson because he was one of the most influential thinkers of the 18th century and the most important in articulating ideas of enlightenment and their practical application. America is a product of Enlightenment, Republicanism and, yes, Secularism. The criminal and civil laws as expressed in the Ten Commandments are not really unique and Babylonian laws predate TC by at least 500 years(if I remember correctly). What it demonstrates that all societies require laws and all develop laws regardless of religious inclinations. Crime needs to be controlled and civil disputes resolved. Many societies developed successful and sophisticated justice systems without any help from "Biblical laws" and murder was still murder and theft and perjury, and on and on and on.

 

[yonah_mishael]

Come and Hear is an anti-Semitic website. Just thought you should know.

I notice that I got no response from this. I wanted to be more specific. This site’s owners have uploaded a translation of the Babylonian Talmud to its servers in order to link to it and use it as a resource to prove that Jews are racist and have the goal of genocide. Look at this this page as an example of such a use of their site. The site is known to be anti-Semitic and to want to blame Jews for all kinds of outrages, and use of the site as a reference for the Talmud when better sites are available is just careless. Please, pay better attention to the sites that you use and that you reference for use by other people.

 

[Torah Lishmah]

I notice that I got no response from this. I wanted to be more specific. This site’s owners have uploaded a translation of the Babylonian Talmud to its servers in order to link to it and use it as a resource to prove that Jews are racist and have the goal of genocide. Look at this this page as an example of such a use of their site. The site is known to be anti-Semitic and to want to blame Jews for all kinds of outrages, and use of the site as a reference for the Talmud when better sites are available is just careless. Please, pay better attention to the sites that you use and that you reference for use by other people.

That site is trash. Elizabeth Dilling is the most evil woman I can think of, and her racism is plastered all over that site.

 

[Torah Lishmah]

If you think about it, Yeshua's teachings were Oral law as he spoke about what they really meant.

Exactly!