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Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by WebersHome, Jun 19, 2017.

  1. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Lose it, but for how long? Not forever:

    1 Cor.15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

    7 Myths About Universalism
     
  2. SBC

    SBC Well-Known Member

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    How are people not in Christ, after their bodily death, becoming "in Christ" ?

    Force?
    Is God going to FORCE a physically dead man to believe in Him, love Him, submit to Him?

    God Bless,
    SBC
     
  3. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    "That God may be All in all" (vs. 28)

    v.22 "in Christ" they are to be made alive. The words "in Christ" indicate salvation:

    1 Cor.1:2a To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus

    There was once a man who was a serial killer. He tortured men & women, Christians, forcing them to blaspheme. How did Christ save him?

    There was once a follower of Jesus who saw Him perform many miracles. He was with Him for years, in His inner circle. After His resurrection other disciples told him the Lord is risen, just as He Himself taught them all. But he refused to believe unless he see with his own eyes, like many atheists today. Not believing in the resurrection means one is not saved (1 Cor.15). Why didn't God strike him dead there & send him to burn in hell? Yet later Jesus walked through the wall into the room where this disciple, Thomas, was, & he believed. How many of the billions of unbelievers through history would also believe were they in Thomas' shoes? Such as Hitler.

    http://lovewins.us/
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017
  4. SBC

    SBC Well-Known Member

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    You didn't answer the question.

    The question was about physically dead men.
    You give an answer about physically alive men.

    How a physically alive man is saved is not the challenge.

    Physically dead men have no life in them. How are they going to make a decision to submit to belief in the Lord?

    Is God going to FORCE a physically dead man to believe in Him, love Him, submit to Him?

    God Bless,
    SBC
     
  5. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Those are your words.

    The Scriptures i gave do not use the word "physically":

    "That God may be All in all" (vs. 28)

    v.22 "in Christ" they are to be made alive. The words "in Christ" indicate salvation:

    1 Cor.1:2a To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus

    There was once a man who was a serial killer. He tortured men & women, Christians, forcing them to blaspheme. How did Christ save him?

    There was once a follower of Jesus who saw Him perform many miracles. He was with Him for years, in His inner circle. After His resurrection other disciples told him the Lord is risen, just as He Himself taught them all. But he refused to believe unless he see with his own eyes, like many atheists today. Not believing in the resurrection means one is not saved (1 Cor.15). Why didn't God strike him dead there & send him to burn in hell? Yet later Jesus walked through the wall into the room where this disciple, Thomas, was, & he believed. How many of the billions of unbelievers through history would also believe were they in Thomas' shoes? Such as Hitler.

    Unique Proof For Christian, Biblical Universalism
     
  6. SBC

    SBC Well-Known Member

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    You do not know the difference between physically alive and physically dead?

    You do not know even the physically alive, not born of God, are, dead to God?

    God Bless,
    SBC
     
  7. SBC

    SBC Well-Known Member

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    Correct Scripture does not say "physically". Scripture speaks of a mans life, the mans lives, but is dead. God saves the living man, alive in his life, but dead. And all the dead living men, may be dead in Christ, and God shall be ALL in all of the living, the dead, who are also dead in Christ.

    God ALL in all, is delineated WHO the all are. They are ALL who are dead in Christ, He calls His People. You are supposing the dead in Christ are those who are NOT called His People.

    Yes.

    The same way all men become saved. To believe and call on the Lord and submit.

    Was Thomas the only doubter? The women went to the tomb and reported what they knew. Then the men ran to the tomb, to confirm what the women told them. Then Jesus appeared at their door, and they saw and believed. Did that saved them? No.
    What saved them was they believed and submitted to the Lord their belief.
    Were they alive in their own life when they believed and submitted to the Lord? Yes.
    Every one WILL believe when they SEE the Lord. That is not news.

    However the ONLY ones who shall be forgiven are the ones WHO believe and submit, (by faith, without seeing)
    while they are alive in their own life (which is their own blood).

    There is not one case, one revelation, one teaching, of a man NOT alive in his own life (his blood), being forgiven or saved. Which is what you teach.

    Where is your scripture for teaching that men NOT alive in their own life, are giving God their DEAD body (void of its blood life), to the Lord for crucifixion with Christ? How is their dead (void of its blood life) body, crucified with Christ? Please explain.



    God Bless,
    SBC
     
  8. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    How do you know this? What is it they will believe? The gospel that saves?

    Scripture? So believing doesn't count if you see signs, wonders & miracles?

    Jn.2:23 While He was in Jerusalem at the Passover Feast, many people saw the signs He was doing and believed in His name.

    John 20:24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. 25The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

    26And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, a nd said, Peace be unto you. 27Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.29Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
     
  9. SBC

    SBC Well-Known Member

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    Isa 45
    [23] I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

    In God.

    If you believe in His works, do you not therefore Believe IN Him?

    Yes - you quoted Scriptures of men WHO SAW Jesus. First hand SAW Him perform miracles with His Word, with His Touch.

    Correct - WE can not SEE Him.

    God Bless,
    SBC
     
  10. WebersHome

    WebersHome Active Member

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    Continuing from post #240


    POSIT: God doesn't burn His children in hell!

    RESPONSE: Not everyone qualifies as God's children; for example:

    Matt 5:9 . . Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

    The koiné Greek word for "peacemakers" is eirenopoios (i-ray-nop-oy-os') an ambiguous word that can indicate people who effect peace, and also people who are peaceable in nature.

    Peaceable folk are tactful and make an effort to keep a civil tongue in their head-- a tongue that goes easy on people's nerves rather than a tongue that deliberately grates, stirs the pot, chafes, antagonizes, denigrates, humiliates, demoralizes, ridicules, injures, provokes, demeans, discourages, and tears people down and makes them feel bad about themselves.

    There are some people in this world who are simply implacable. They're indignant over everything, For them rivalry, conflict, revenge, retaliation, quarrelling, and grudging are a way of life: every disagreement is an act of war-- their egos are fragile; they're defensive, they're reactive, and easily insulted.

    They thrive on criticism, carping, finding fault and pointing out mistakes, tattling, bickering, retorts, rejoinders, recriminations, endless debate, telling other people off, and giving others a piece of their mind. And some of them are bullies, meddlers, domineering, imperious, and rumor mongers.

    Those kinds of people are definitely not of the peaceable genre so it's necessary to quarantine them away from God's children so as not to make heaven a living hell like they do for people on earth.


    POPULATION CLOCK UPDATE: 141 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 8,562,930 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since June 19, 2017.

    /
     
  11. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That doesn't say everyone will believe in Jesus when they see Jesus in the afterlife. It doesn't even say they will see Him.

    Many non Christians - Jews, Muslims, etc - already believe in the existence of God. So seeing Jesus won't affect that.

    BTW, did you notice v.22. The context is about salvation:

    22"Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; For I am God, and there is no other.

    Unique Proof For Christian, Biblical Universalism


    How do we know some haven't see Him? Many claim to.

    But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
     
  12. SBC

    SBC Well-Known Member

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    Rev 1
    [7] Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

    Isa 45
    [23] I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

    I trust, He who believes in God, believes also in His WORD.

    And how does that work for Atheists and those who have other gods?

    Well, Scripture says He is in Heaven, and has not yet descended, because when He descends, ALL shall see Him. I haven't seen Him, nor know anyone who has.
    Have you seen Him?

    So, you have seen Him? I haven't.

    God Bless,
    SBC
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017
  13. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Do these occur simultaneously?


    If He's in heaven, then what does Mt.28:20 refer to?
     
  14. SBC

    SBC Well-Known Member

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    Does Scripture say ? men making a loud sound because they saw something is the same time all men shall bow and every tongue swear unto Him?

    IS a man making a LOUD sound, the SAME as a MAN calling on the Lord's NAME and confessing BELIEF, asking for FORGIVENESS?

    His Body came down from Heaven (AS the Son of Man) and returned to Heaven (AS the Son of Man) and shall return again (AS the Son of Man).

    His BODY was last SEEN -

    Acts 1
    [9] And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

    His BODY will AGAIN BE SEEN - coming to earth, out of the clouds.

    Acts 1
    [11] Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

    Mark 13
    1. [26] And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

    While His BODY, is in Heaven, His Spirit, IS on earth, Waiting for men to INVITE His Spirit to enter the man. Men WHO DO INVITE His Spirit to enter WITHIN the man;
    Forever (alway), His Spirit remains IN the man.

    Matt 28
    [20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

    What you don't recognize IS - Men WHO HAVE invited the Lords Spirit to be WITHIN them. (physically DEAD, or Physically ALIVE), Will NOT ONLY SEE the Lord Coming in the clouds - BUT WILL BODILY be LIFTED UP, by His POWER, to MEET the Lord "IN THE CLOUDS", to receive "their" physical "BODILY" change.

    1 Thes 4
    [16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    [17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

    Phil 3
    [21] Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

    1 John 3
    [2] Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

    ALL men SHALL SEE "The Son of MAN", (JESUS), coming in the clouds.

    HOWEVER, men WHO HAVE the Spirit of God "IN THEM", shall be lifted up to the Clouds, WITH "The Son of MAN", and receive their glorious BODY, that they CAN THEN SEE -
    The "Son of GOD', who is Christ, who is Power, who is God.

    God Bless,
    SBC
     
  15. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What makes you think i don't recognize this?
     
  16. SBC

    SBC Well-Known Member

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    By your statements and gospel you post and agree with.

    God Bless,
    SBC
     
  17. WebersHome

    WebersHome Active Member

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    Continuing from post #250

    Heb 4:13 . . Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

    Back in 1968 I was a young 24 year-old welder just starting out in the metals trades. One of the first real welding jobs I landed was with a manufacturer located in one of the buildings that were at one time used for knocking together liberty ships in the old WW2 Kaiser shipyard on a waterfront of the Columbia River in the State of Washington.

    One day the manufacturer's layout man was strolling through the shop. He stopped where I was and casually asked me, right out of the blue: "Cliff are you ready for Christ's return?"

    Well, the only information I had up to that point as regards Christ was what I learned from nuns in children's catechism. They had never mentioned Christ's return; so the layout man's question made no sense to me whatsoever. But to the point: my initial reaction was fear. And my secondary reaction was anger. So I asked the layout man, in a rather indignant tone: "Why would Christ want to come back?"

    You see; I was in no hurry to encounter Christ because I instinctively knew the interview would not be pleasant. Even at only 24 years-old I already had a lot to answer for; and I especially did not want to be confronted with the things I had done in private when I thought nobody was looking.


    POPULATION CLOCK UPDATE: 144 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 8,745120, new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since June 19, 2017.

    /
     
  18. SBC

    SBC Well-Known Member

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    Not forever? Well, ONLY for those IN CHRIST, as the very Scripture you quote notifies you.

    God Bless,
    SBC
     
  19. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What gospel?
     
  20. SBC

    SBC Well-Known Member

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    That is a strange question; you asking me what is "your gospel".
    It is WHAT you say and promote with your every link!


    Matt 7:
    [21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;

    Matt 7:
    [23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    Your gospel, is false wrapped in a truth.

    The truth is; not all men will be saved.
    The truth is; men alive in their blood flesh, from all over the Universe WILL be saved.

    God Bless,
    SBC
     
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