Hell

[~Anastasia~]

creating a new thread to continue discussion from TAW proper ...

Hell

From this thread, if background is needed. Please reply here, and not in that one.

 

[ArmyMatt]

aiighty, I will begin. there is nothing in Scripture to support annihilation or that there is no eternal hell.

 

[Almost there]

aiighty, I will begin. there is nothing in Scripture to support annihilation or that there is no eternal hell.

Actually, there is nothing in scripture that supports that there is a hell at all. "Hell" is a made up word. It's a shame too, nobody tried to come up with some other name for Jerusalem, but they seemed to think it needed to be done for Gehenna. I don't get it.

 

[Postvieww]

Nothing in the text below supports the theory this is not a literal event with real people that actually happened.

Luke 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

 

[HereIStand]

Actually, there is nothing in scripture that supports that there is a hell at all. "Hell" is a made up word. It's a shame too, nobody tried to come up with some other name for Jerusalem, but they seemed to think it needed to be done for Gehenna. I don't get it.

So, what happens after death for those whose destination isn't heaven?

 

[Postvieww]

So, what happens after death for those whose destination isn't heaven?

Was not the passage I quoted clear? Do you believe there is standing with God something other than saved or not?

 

[Postvieww]

Actually, there is nothing in scripture that supports that there is a hell at all. "Hell" is a made up word.

Is the phrase ”tormented in this flame” made up or meaningless?

 

[Almost there]

Nothing in the text below supports the theory this is not a literal event with real people that actually happened.

Luke 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Lazarus and the rich man is not about hell. It's not the point of the parable.
Lazarus and the Rich Man

 

[Postvieww]

Lazarus and the rich man is not about hell. It's not the point of the parable.
Lazarus and the Rich Man

I see nothing here to say Luke 16:19-31 is a parable, with two men called by name and Abraham conversing with the rich man. What is your evidence from the text this is does not describe a real event?

 

[Hermit76]

Lazarus and the rich man is not about hell. It's not the point of the parable.
Lazarus and the Rich Man

There is nothing to indicate this is a parable.

 

[Almost there]

So, what happens after death for those whose destination isn't heaven?

John 3:16
Genesis 3:19
Genesis 3:22-23
Psalm 1
Psalm 37
Psalm 92:6-9
Proverbs 10:25-31
Proverbs 24:19-20
Malachi 4:1-3
Matthew 3:11-12
Matthew 7:13-14
Matthew 10:28
Matthew 13:40-42
Matthew 18:8-9
(Leaving out the other gospels right now)
Romans 6:23
1 Corinthians 15: 50-54
Philippians 3:19
1 Thessalonians 1:7-9
Hebrews 10:26-27
James 5:20
2 Peter 2:6
2 Peter 2:12
2 Peter 3:6-7
1 John 2:17
1 John 5:11-12
Jude 7
Revelation 20:13-14

 

[Almost there]

There is nothing to indicate this is a parable.

This does:
Matthew 13:34
Jesus spoke all these things to the crowds in parables. He did not tell them anything without using a parable.

 

[Almost there]

Is the phrase ”tormented in this flame” made up or meaningless?

Are you talking about the parable of Lazarus and the rich man?

 

[Hermit76]

This does:
Matthew 13:34
Jesus spoke all these things to the crowds in parables. He did not tell them anything without using a parable.

No. The rich man and Lazarus is not in Matthew 13... or are you saying that this scripture means that Jesus NEVER spoke in a literal manner?

 

[Almost there]

I see nothing here to say Luke 16:19-31 is a parable, with two men called by name and Abraham conversing with the rich man. What is your evidence from the text this is does not describe a real event?

Matthew 13:34
Jesus spoke all these things to the crowds in parables. He did not tell them anything without using a parable.

 

[Almost there]

There is nothing to indicate this is a parable.

Matthew 13:34
Jesus spoke all these things to the crowds in parables. He did not tell them anything without using a parable.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Even when Christ used parables, He did not create fantastical events that were untrue by their very nature. Sowers sow, birds eat seeds, plants wiither in the sun. None of the plants in Jesus' parable produced a magic beanstalk that grew into heaven.

Even if Lazarus and the rich man were not actual people, everything Jesus said was "true" in the sense that it reflects truth.

If people slept or disappeared after they died, Jesus would not have described this scenario at all.

 

[~Anastasia~]

And the "sleep" is just a popular euphemism. There are topics people tend to do that with. A generation ago you would only hear sexual relations described as "sleeping with someone" or "sleeping around" though we all know that sleeping wasn't what was being described.

Like sexual activity, people tend to use euphemisms for death. Passing on or having passed is a common one. But of course they didn't physically overtake and pull ahead of someone like passing in traffic. Falling asleep was just a nice way of saying "they died" while in a sense giving a nod to the fact that we do not cease to exist at our physical death.

 

[Almost there]

No. The rich man and Lazarus is not in Matthew 13... or are you saying that this scripture means that Jesus NEVER spoke in a literal manner?

Not to crowds. Often he explained his parables to his core group.

And the parable of Lazarus and the Rich man is the last of a list of parables:
Lost sheep
Lost coin
Lost son
Shrewd Manager
Lazarus and the Rich man

They are all parables. BTW, the name "lazarus" means "God will help".

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I would just like to confirm what I have read on this forum in the past, The Orthodox position is that God is the lake of fire?