Hell.

[Skavau]

God saw the world as all those things.

Which he, per your belief, created and carries on watching now. Excessive incompetence or malice.

You see, while you believe He shouldn't exist because you think He falls under those traits

No, my lack of belief in the existence of God has nothing with my objection towards your conception of God. Anti-Theism is a separate proposition from Atheism.

, then you ultimately concede that God was righteous with the Flood in His opinion as well.

No I don't. Mass Genocide is not a desirable proposition nor and especially so when faced with an omniscient and omnipotent entity, the only option.

There is a place for punishing the wicked, which exists because God is not deistic, but holy.

Of course by "wicked" you don't really mean anything. You basically people who won't live in perennial subservience to entity they do not believe in, see no reason to follow and at times, object to. So "wickedness" to you, is thought-crime. Totalitarianism. Again.

You all are not as skeptical as you try to believe or tell others. You all understand the philosophical inevitability that without God, all is permissible and so when you make your own morals, they are illogical UNLESS you presume that you- are God.

This is absurd. You currently believe, as if this moment, that torture is entirely acceptable. You currently believe that punishing people for what and how they think is ethical. When you can willingly justify torture (eternal torture for that matter) for the crime of conviction then frankly, at this point, any notion by you of what ought or ought not can be taken with a grain of salt.

The real answer to this though is that we do make our own morals, we live by them (or try) and we advocate that others arounds us do akin. Attempts on this vary but successful ones form the basis of a community. I am sorry I have to spell this out.

And because absolute morals do not come from you, but rather God, you are incapable of doing any good without God.

Your "absolute morality" card, your fallback is a front. You don't really believe in 'absolute morality'. The only conviction you have is that whatever God does, no matter the content, is always justified. If God ordered murder, you'd call it moral and "absolute". If God ordered slavery, you'd call it moral and "absolute". Your concept of morality is nothing more than might makes right. Slave and Master relationship. The content of one's actions means nothing to you, by consequence of your sycophantic adulation of God.

 

[PeaceBWithU]

Hell originated with Zoroastrianism, then Judaism combined it with Sheol and Gehanna and, voila, Hell, the perfect way to instill fear and keep control of the masses. Needless to say, I don't believe in it.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Hell originated with Zoroastrianism, then Judaism combined it with Sheol and Gehanna and, voila, Hell, the perfect way to instill fear and keep control of the masses. Needless to say, I don't believe in it.

Christianity combined it with the Jewish Sheol and a good measure of Tartarus from pagan Greek mythology. There is no hell in Judaism, just the grave.

 

[WindStaff]

Hell originated with Zoroastrianism, then Judaism combined it with Sheol and Gehanna and, voila, Hell, the perfect way to instill fear and keep control of the masses. Needless to say, I don't believe in it.

Then there was no point in Jesus dying on the cross, because there would have been no wrath to be had. What did he save us from, and under what conditions?

It's impossible to reconcile one as Christian and not believe there is a Hell, as you ultimately believe there was no point in it. It's just a blunt fact, there is no way around it- you are ignoring the whole other half of it altogether.

 

[PeaceBWithU]

Christianity combined it with the Jewish Sheol and a good measure of Tartarus from pagan Greek mythology. There is no hell in Judaism, just the grave.

Doh, you're right.

 

[PeaceBWithU]

Then there was no point in Jesus dying on the cross, because there would have been no wrath to be had. What did he save us from, and under what conditions?

It's impossible to reconcile one as Christian and not believe there is a Hell, as you ultimately believe there was no point in it. It's just a blunt fact, there is no way around it- you are ignoring the whole other half of it altogether.

What's wrong with Jesus' message to love God and love your neighbor as yourself? He did away with societal hierarchies that were prevalent in the OT. Grace instead of law is vital to what he stood for.

 

[throughchristimchanged]

I'm sure this has been posted about a lot. I'm an agnostic, leaning towards atheist. But recently I realized how sick the concept of Hell actually is. I was raised a Christian. We are taught about it in Sunday school, and think almost nothing of it. We are desensitized to it.

Anyway, how do you guys get around the thought of your coworkers, friends, etc., burning in Hell for all eternity in endless agony?

Hell isnt real and then it is, depending on where you come from what you've done or are doing, the view point that has brought you to, what originated this thought in you?.

 

[WindStaff]

What's wrong with Jesus' message to love God and love your neighbor as yourself? He did away with societal hierarchies that were prevalent in the OT. Grace instead of law is vital to what he stood for.

Jesus saved us from the wrath of God, and yet still says the world will end in a purge of flame. What is the point of ANY of this whatsoever, if people simply just die or go to Heaven?

It's because of eternal salvation that there is eternal damnation. That is balance, the ultimate conclusion to an ultimate justice.

 

[South Bound]

I'm sure this has been posted about a lot. I'm an agnostic, leaning towards atheist. But recently I realized how sick the concept of Hell actually is. I was raised a Christian. We are taught about it in Sunday school, and think almost nothing of it. We are desensitized to it.

Anyway, how do you guys get around the thought of your coworkers, friends, etc., burning in Hell for all eternity in endless agony?

There's nothing to "get around". God is holy and righteous. Men are sinful.

Every one of us is guilty before God and deserving of Hell.

That God would condescend to save any of us is a testament to His grace and mercy.

 

[Skavau]

Jesus saved us from the wrath of God, and yet still says the world will end in a purge of flame. What is the point of ANY of this whatsoever, if people simply just die or go to Heaven?

What is the point of any of this whatsoever, if people simply just die or go to Hell? Your entire belief system cannot remove itself from its intrinsic futility. Nothing God does matters because he can never lose, can never be challenged and can do anything. Hell does not matter. Heaven does not matter. Earth does not matter. God could have chosen to have not created us and nothing would be any different.

Thought your premise in itself is absurd: Why would everyone going to heaven or just dying be any less meaningful than some of us being tortured forever?

 

[WindStaff]

What is the point of any of this whatsoever, if people simply just die or go to Hell? Your entire belief system cannot remove itself from its intrinsic futility. Nothing God does matters because he can never lose, can never be challenged and can do anything. Hell does not matter. Heaven does not matter. Earth does not matter. God could have chosen to have not created us and nothing would be any different.

Thought your premise in itself is absurd: Why would everyone going to heaven or just dying be any less meaningful than some of us being tortured forever?

God created the universe out of grace, there is no factor of if He should or not, it is part of the divine nature of God.

When God spoke, "Let there be light", the Big Bang happened. The Bible had it right for thousands of years before modern science came around, and the Big Bang itself wasn't even conceived by an atheist, but rather a Catholic priest.

Does religion get any points for that? No. But not only that, atheists later assume it as theirs and reap credit for it.
I define atheism as 'passive anti-theism', because no matter how much anything may point toward the direction of a creator, atheists will always turn the other way.

That's why I don't waste much time on atheists as far as the grand subject 'Why We Exist'. But you can figure out for yourself why God has Heaven and Hell for the blessed and the wicked, why He made us and gave the genuine option of failing miserably, and so on.
You all aren't as skeptical about these matters as you tell others either, you just don't want to accept the validity of it.

 

[Skavau]

God created the universe out of grace, there is no factor of if He should or not, it is part of the divine nature of God.

Of course I suspect that you are unable to independently define "grace" or "divine". Your usage of them as a reason for anything is white noise to me.

Does religion get any points for that? No. But not only that, atheists later assume it as theirs and reap credit for it.

I've never heard anyone ever claim that atheism was responsible for our understanding of the origins of the universe.

I define atheism as 'passive anti-theism', because no matter how much anything may point toward the direction of a creator, atheists will always turn the other way.

Then you don't understand what atheism is. Many atheists would be theists if they could believe.

That's why I don't waste much time on atheists as far as the grand subject 'Why We Exist'. But you can figure out for yourself why God has Heaven and Hell for the blessed and the wicked, why He made us and gave the genuine option of failing miserably, and so on.
You all aren't as skeptical about these matters as you tell others either, you just don't want to accept the validity of it.

Don't claim to know what I think. I've spelled out, in clear terms, on multiple occasions my position on heaven and hell regardless of the validity of Christianity or any doctrine of Christianity within.

Indeed, if you'll notice - my objection to hell in this context has nothing to do with how likely I think it might be to exist.

So do not declare that you know what I think better than I do. You can ask what I think, and I'll tell you, but do not be so presumptuous as to just decree and subsequently hand-wave away any objection I might have to any assertions you make.

 

[PsychoSarah]

It's not the belief of someone that is punished. It is his unbelief. God shows His greatness to one, and one still says I don't believe in God. God is jealous and does not tolerate such offense to His majesty.

But God is loving is extends His love. But people do not seek that love.

God has never shown itself to me, especially not in any way I could recognize.

 

[throughchristimchanged]

God has never shown itself to me, especially not in any way I could recognize.

GOD is in all you do, the essence of why we are living is GOD, what is living to you?.

 

[PsychoSarah]

GOD is in all you do, the essence of why we are living is GOD, what is living to you?.

-_- existence, I suppose. God is not in everything I do in such a manner that I can perceive it, if at all.

Although if you want to get philosophical about it, my life is however I decide to spend my limited existence.

 

[throughchristimchanged]

-_- existence, I suppose. God is not in everything I do in such a manner that I can perceive it, if at all.

Although if you want to get philosophical about it, my life is however I decide to spend my limited existence.

GOD is in everything, what is the everything you are talking about?

 

[selfinflikted]

GOD is in everything, what is the everything you are talking about?

If god is in everything, you should have no trouble demonstrating its existence.

 

[throughchristimchanged]

If god is in everything, you should have no trouble demonstrating its existence.

for it is not of you that I seek

 

[selfinflikted]

Well alrighty then.

 

[throughchristimchanged]

Well alrighty then.

for GODS' GRACE may I bestow upon you