Hell.

[Evergreen48]

Because these are promises that will be fulfilled when Jesus Christ returns.
I'm sure that you know a lot of believers. I'm sure that some of these have died, so you can't really say that believers never die. Once they are resurrected they will never die, just as Jesus said.

But Jesus didn't say that once they are resurrected they will never die. He said in John 5:24 that whoever heard his word and believed on him would not come into judgement, but was passed from death unto life. That makes it plain that the passing from death unto life is something that takes place in this life, not in the 'hereafter'. And yes, I do know a lot of believers whose earthly bodies of flesh have died. So, I know that was not what Jesus was taking about when he said that whoever was alive and believed in him would never die.

Thoughts?

 

[Timothew]

Thoughts?

What do you mean by earthly bodies of flesh?

 

[Evergreen48]

What do you mean by earthly bodies of flesh?

The flesh and blood body that we live in now on this earth which cannot enter into the spiritual realm.

 

[Timothew]

The flesh and blood body that we live in now on this earth which cannot enter into the spiritual realm.

I live in a house, like this one:




What do you mean by "the spiritual realm"?

 

[Noxot]

you don't know that you are a spirit just like God is?

 

[Evergreen48]

I live in a house, like this one:

My body of flesh and blood also dwells in a building something like the one you say is like the one you live in. Its not haunted though.

What do you mean by "the spiritual realm"?

The kingdom of God --- what most folks call heaven, I guess.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

My body of flesh and blood also dwells in a building something like the one you say is like the one you live in. Its not haunted though.

The kingdom of God --- what most folks call heaven, I guess.

Could be.
I found this commentary rather insightfull on that

Kindgdom Bible Studies Kingdom of God Part 1

*snip*
........It is significant to note that the phrases "Kingdom of God" and "Kingdom of Heaven" are not to be found in the Old Testament. They are strictly New Testament terms beginning with John the Baptist and Jesus. When Jesus came He did not preach a message called grace, or salvation, or justification, or sanctification, or regeneration, or even the Church. Could there be any more glorious message than the one that fell from His lips as He began His sonship ministry declaring, "The KINGDOM OF GOD IS AT HAND!" From that time forward the great teaching of the Lord centered in the truth of THE KINGDOM. His gospel was the gospel (good news) of the Kingdom of God.

 

[Timothew]

My body of flesh and blood also dwells in a building something like the one you say is like the one you live in. Its not haunted though.
My house isn't haunted, either. I don't believe in ghosts.
My house just looks like the Amityville House, except mine has the addition on the other side, it has 4 dormers, and it's white instead of black.

 

[Evergreen48]

My house isn't haunted, either. I don't believe in ghosts.
My house just looks like the Amityville House, except mine has the addition on the other side, it has 4 dormers, and it's white instead of black.

Wow! We lived in, and renovated a house once that looked something like the Amityville horror house, but the only likeness in where we live now is that the building is made of wood and brick and mortar the same as most buildings are where people reside.

I don't believe in ghosts either, but our oldest son swears that he encountered one in his bedroom one night. He is 53 years old though, and has been known to take too many nips from the bottle once in awhile. I keep telling him that it was just his guilty conscience acting up.

Anyway, since I answered all of your questions that you asked me, maybe you could think on the questions I ask you and get back to me later? Since we agree that there is no such place as a burning hell, I would be interested in your thoughts concerning the things I asked you about.

 

[Timothew]

Do you mean these questions?

Why would you think you are going to die one of these days, since obviously you do believe on Jesus.

And why would you need to be raised back to life if you never died to start with?

I think I am going to die one of these days because everyone I know eventually dies. I suppose it's possible that everyone will stop dying today, but if history is an indication, I will die someday. I believe on Jesus, but I am still mortal.

I would need to be raised back to life if I died. Everyone who has died will need to be raised back to life. Life is life, eternal life is not living as a dead person forever.

 

[Evergreen48]

Could be.

........It is significant to note that the phrases "Kingdom of God" and "Kingdom of Heaven" are not to be found in the Old Testament. They are strictly New Testament terms beginning with John the Baptist and Jesus. When Jesus came He did not preach a message called grace, or salvation, or justification, or sanctification, or regeneration, or even the Church. Could there be any more glorious message than the one that fell from His lips as He began His sonship ministry declaring, "The KINGDOM OF GOD IS AT HAND!" From that time forward the great teaching of the Lord centered in the truth of THE KINGDOM. His gospel was the gospel (good news) of the Kingdom of God.

 

[Evergreen48]

Do you mean these questions?

Yes, those questions, and I wanted to get your thoughts on my comment to the effect that John 5:24 makes it plain that the passing from death unto life is something that takes place in this life, and in view of what Jesus told Martha ---- "And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die", how do you reconcile this with your belief that you are going to die someday and will need to be brought back to life again.

think I am going to die one of these days because everyone I know eventually dies. I suppose it's possible that everyone will stop dying today, but if history is an indication, I will die someday. I believe on Jesus, but I am still mortal.

I would need to be raised back to life if I died. Everyone who has died will need to be raised back to life. Life is life, eternal life is not living as a dead person forever

Only your natural body of flesh and blood is mortal, and of course it will die some day.

1Cor. 15:44 "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."

So, I was wondering if you believe that it is the natural body that will be resurrected.

 

[Timothew]

Yes, those questions, and I wanted to get your thoughts on my comment to the effect that John 5:24 makes it plain that the passing from death unto life is something that takes place in this life, and in view of what Jesus told Martha ---- "And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die", how do you reconcile this with your belief that you are going to die someday and will need to be brought back to life again.

Since he says "passing from death unto life", this has to be something that happens after death. I can't pass from death into life unless I am dead.

So, I was wondering if you believe that it is the natural body that will be resurrected.

This is a good question. I don't know just what kind of body I will be resurrected in.

 

[Evergreen48]

Since he says "passing from death unto life", this has to be something that happens after death. I can't pass from death into life unless I am dead.

But how do you reconcile the belief that this is something that happens after death (of the natural body) with what Jesus says in the next verse : John 5: 25. "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live." ?

This is a good question. I don't know just what kind of body I will be resurrected in.

In view of the scripture that tells us that "there is a natural body and there is a spiritual body" (1 Cor 15:44), and also tells us that "It is sown a natural body and it is raised a spiritual body", do you believe there is another kind of body that one could be raised with besides the natural body and the spiritual body?

 

[Timothew]

But how do you reconcile the belief that this is something that happens after death (of the natural body) with what Jesus says in the next verse : John 5: 25. "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live." ?

Jesus raised the dead A LOT. The hour is coming (on His return) and now is (Lazarus, the widows son, etc)

In view of the scripture that tells us that "there is a natural body and there is a spiritual body" (1 Cor 15:44), and also tells us that "It is sown a natural body and it is raised a spiritual body", do you believe there is another kind of body that one could be raised with besides the natural body and the spiritual body?

Yes, it is a spiritual body. I don't know what this is, but it is not a ghost body, it will have flesh and bones. "Does a spirit have flesh and bones as you see that I have?"

 

[dollarsbill]

Death is the eternal punishment, and it lasts forever. It is eternal.

Yes eternal, as in NEVER ENDING.

 

[dollarsbill]

I say death is destruction, you say circular reasoning.

That's where you greatly err. Death does not mean cease to exist.

 

[dollarsbill]

No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all perish as well! (Luke 13:3 HCSB)

Eternity in Hell is indeed perishing.

 

[Evergreen48]

Jesus raised the dead A LOT. The hour is coming (on His return) and now is (Lazarus, the widows son, etc)

But Lazarus and the widow's son, and all that Jesus raised back to life again at that time, all died again; that is, their natural body died again, which would be incongruent with the kind of life (everlasting) that Jesus said he would give in verse 24. So, in view of this, do you believe that this was the life that Jesus meant that he was giving at that time when he said, "and now is"?

Yes, it is a spiritual body. I don't know what this is, but it is not a ghost body, it will have flesh and bones. "Does a spirit have flesh and bones as you see that I have?"

But, how do you reconcile this with the scriptural teaching that flesh and bones cannot enter into the kingdom, or the heavenly realm of heaven. (In order to have bones, you must have blood. So, a flesh and blood body would be the same as a flesh and bone body.)

 

[Timothew]

But how do you reconcile the belief that this is something that happens after death (of the natural body) with what Jesus says in the next verse : John 5: 25. "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live." ?





In view of the scripture that tells us that "there is a natural body and there is a spiritual body" (1 Cor 15:44), and also tells us that "It is sown a natural body and it is raised a spiritual body", do you believe there is another kind of body that one could be raised with besides the natural body and the spiritual body?

Paul is talking about the impossibilty of inheriting the kingdom of God without being resurrected first. Paul writes this chapter to answer his critics who say there is no resurrection.

As to your first objection, dead people were raised, right? They were raised then, (The hour has now come) and dead people will be raised on the last day (an hour is coming). What Jesus said fits in with what I'm saying perfectly, as it should because this is not MY idea, it is HIS.