Hell.

[LittleLambofJesus]

When I saw this thread I thought "Oh, hell!"

Same thing I thought when I saw you show up on this thread

 

[GOD is LOVE is GOD]

That covenantle parable is the only one that depicts someone burning in hell.

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary


http://www.christianforums.com/t7461118/#post54553876
Lazarus and 2 witnesses of Reve 11 similarity

John 11:39 Jesus is saying "take away ye! the stone".
Martha is saying to Him, the sister of the one having deceased "Lord, already he stinking, for it is fourth-day
43 And these saying, to a great Voice He cries-out "Lazarus, hither out!"

Reve 11:12 And they hear a great Voice out of the Heaven saying to them "Ascend ye here!".
And they ascended into the heaven in the cloud and observed them, the enemies of them.

That link you provided regarding the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus shows that it has nothing to do with hell at all! Here is the last paragraph:

"The parable of Lazarus and the rich man, long used by mainstream Christian ministers to teach the "reality of hell," really has nothing to say about punishment or reward in the afterlife. Yeshua used this story, which fit the common misconception about life after death in his day, to show the fate that awaited the Jewish nation because of the unbelief and faithlessness which caused them to reject him as the Messiah. They still suffer from that fate to this very day. Yet the time is soon coming when God will pour on the Jews the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on their Messiah whom they pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for him as one grieves for a firstborn (Zec. 12:10)."
Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

 

[Montalban]

That link you provided regarding the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus shows that it has nothing to do with hell at all! Here is the last paragraph:

Of course it does. It shows Lazarus in an after-life situation being tormented

 

[Ajax 777]

Of course it does. It shows Lazarus in an after-life situation being tormented

Er, Lazarus was comforted. It was the rich man who was tormented.

 

[Lysimachus]

That covenantle parable is the only one that depicts someone burning in hell.

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary


http://www.christianforums.com/t7461118/#post54553876
Lazarus and 2 witnesses of Reve 11 similarity

John 11:39 Jesus is saying "take away ye! the stone".
Martha is saying to Him, the sister of the one having deceased "Lord, already he stinking, for it is fourth-day
43 And these saying, to a great Voice He cries-out "Lazarus, hither out!"

Reve 11:12 And they hear a great Voice out of the Heaven saying to them "Ascend ye here!".
And they ascended into the heaven in the cloud and observed them, the enemies of them.

I agree with the most-part of that article, but when it came to this:

Yet the time is soon coming when God will pour on the Jews the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on their Messiah whom they pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for him as one grieves for a firstborn (Zec. 12:10).

... a better way to have worded that is.... "Yet the time is soon coming when God will pour on a number of Jews the Spirit of grace and supplication." The way they worded it makes it sound as though all Jews will be saved. But all Jews that will be saved (most will not, just like most Christians will not) will be grafted into the tree, which is the body of Christ, the Church. Jews who accept the Messiah cannot be saved outside this body as a separate entity.

 

[Timothew]

Well the subject is about what faces us. It's about how we should know what's in store, by the teaching already given, and then what's in store

As to 'plain teaching' this is simply circular logic. Whatever interpretation you have is as the bible really means to say, and anything else is private interpretation.


Exactly, as like if a son so dishonours his father the father might say "I have no son, you are dead to me".


Again, circular logic.



Aside from further appeal to circular logic, what's your alternative? Oblivion?

I don't think you know what "circular logic" means.

 

[Timothew]

I can do the same as well:

Luke 12:5, “But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.”

Matthew 10:28 “And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

Mathew 18:8 and 25:41, “Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. ... Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.”

I can also appeal to circular logic: These verses CLEARLY say that there's punishment in hell.

I even bolded it and underlined it so it must be true! If people don't believe me I can re-quote it in different colours

The trouble is: Those verses DON'T sat that there is punishment in hell. Matthew 10:28 even refutes you by saying that body and soul can be destroyed in hell. The punishment in "hell" is clearly destruction.
You aren't using circular logic. You are denying what the bible says.

 

[Timothew]

I believe the problem is that they say the punishment is limited and then go as far as to imply that any word such as Death, or Destroy for example, should be taken literally, even when we're dealing with spirituality. So to us, Death or Destroy is a separation of Life with God. To them, it's the same as a body dying here in physical form then that same concept applied to the soul. And the 'Everlasting' word I'm sure they'll continue to argue that in that context, the definition of the word means up to a point but change their tone when dealing with 'Everlasting and life' by saying then it means forever and ever as we would believe it means. It's just picking and choosing which definition to use based on an already erroneous conclusion that death and vanish are literal meanings in the case of Spirituality when we know that's not the case even from reading the first Book of the OT regarding the tree of life and death.

You are confused.

 

[Timothew]

I believe the problem is that they say the punishment is limited and then go as far as to imply that any word such as Death, or Destroy for example, should be taken literally, even when we're dealing with spirituality. So to us, Death or Destroy is a separation of Life with God. To them, it's the same as a body dying here in physical form then that same concept applied to the soul. And the 'Everlasting' word I'm sure they'll continue to argue that in that context, the definition of the word means up to a point but change their tone when dealing with 'Everlasting and life' by saying then it means forever and ever as we would believe it means. It's just picking and choosing which definition to use based on an already erroneous conclusion that death and vanish are literal meanings in the case of Spirituality when we know that's not the case even from reading the first Book of the OT regarding the tree of life and death.

The reason you are confused is this:
We say eternal life is eternal. No problem there correct? And we say that death is eternal. How is that "picking and choosing which definition to use"? And how does this not match up with Genesis? God said "Surely you will die" and sure enough, Adam died. Paul even goes on and on about this in his letters. Sin entered the world though Adam and death through sin.

 

[dollarsbill]

Paul even goes on and on about this in his letters. Sin entered the world though Adam and death through sin.

Right, physical and spiritual death. Man didn't die until he sinned.

 

[Forge3]

Hell? Oh don't get me started (srs). What I will have to say on that subject is not for the faint of heart or fundy Christians who 'dabble' in scripture. Don't get me started!

 

[Going Merry]

Whatever the case I think anyone will agree that being destroyed isn't ideal.
The judgment throne awaits all who practice wickedness...

 

[dollarsbill]

Whatever the case I think anyone will agree that being destroyed isn't ideal.
The judgment throne awaits all who practice wickedness...

True, but it beats eternal torment all to pieces.

 

[Montalban]

The trouble is: Those verses DON'T sat that there is punishment in hell. Matthew 10:28 even refutes you by saying that body and soul can be destroyed in hell. The punishment in "hell" is clearly destruction.
You aren't using circular logic. You are denying what the bible says.

What's your idea of the after-life? Sinners get off Scott-free?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Timothew The trouble is: Those verses DON'T sat that there is punishment in hell. Matthew 10:28 even refutes you by saying that body and soul can be destroyed in hell. The punishment in "hell" is clearly destruction.
You aren't using circular logic. You are denying what the bible says.

What's your idea of the after-life? Sinners get off Scott-free?

Let it not be!

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary


Young) Romans 5:8 and God doth commend His own love to us, that in our being still sinners, Christ did die for us;
19 for as through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners:
so also through the obedience of the One, shall the many be constituted righteous.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hell? Oh don't get me started (srs). What I will have to say on that subject is not for the faint of heart or fundy Christians who 'dabble' in scripture. Don't get me started!

Oh please, start

 

[Montalban]

Sirs? I'm no gentleman!

 

[Timothew]

What's your idea of the after-life? Sinners get off Scott-free?

No Sir! (I believe you are a gentleman ) Sinners die and are dead forever. They pay the ultimate penalty, death. They don't get to have eternal life. They miss out on being with our Lord forever. The wages of sin is death, and they pay this penalty. That's not Scott-free, that's losing everything.

 

[Timothew]

Right, physical and spiritual death.

No, the part about sin entering the world, and death with sin. Paul didn't separate death into two parts. He never wrote about "spiritual death" and the term "spiritual death" is not anywhere in the bible.

 

[Montalban]

No Sir! (I believe you are a gentleman ) Sinners die and are dead forever. They pay the ultimate penalty, death. They don't get to have eternal life. They miss out on being with our Lord forever. The wages of sin is death, and they pay this penalty. That's not Scott-free, that's losing everything.

That is Scott-free, no more suffering. They don't lose everything - they simply cease to be - so they wouldn't feel the effects of being in nothingness