hell

[PaladinValer]

Do you or do you not believe all will be reconciled?

If you read what I said, you'd know this question is ridiculous.

What part of believing in an everlasting experience of a painful hell do you not understand? Where is the Universalism? Stop relying on quote minings and read everything in context!

Universalism isn't allowed to be promoted here. Why would my statement be allowed to last as long as it has when staff has been here if it were Universalist? Common sense dictates that your accusation is incorrect.

 

[98cwitr]

If you read what I said, you'd know this question is ridiculous.

What part of believing in an everlasting experience of a painful hell do you not understand? Where is the Universalism? Stop relying on quote minings and read everything in context!

Universalism isn't allowed to be promoted here. Why would my statement be allowed to last as long as it has when staff has been here if it were Universalist? Common sense dictates that your accusation is incorrect.

The univeralism that you claim lies in that you believe that heaven and hell will be here on earth, and God will be here too, which is a scriptural conundrum. Thus, all are reconciled to God in one way or another....as you claim some will be joyous and others will weep and gnash their teeth (which contradicts Rev 21 blantantly btw). By definition, that's universalism.

I'm not promoting it, I'm simply stating it.

That said, how about answering the question.

 

[PaladinValer]

The univeralism that you claim lies in that you believe that heaven and hell will be here on earth, and God will be here too, which is a scriptural conundrum.

You clearly have no clue what Universalism is and isn't then.

Why don't you learn what it is: it is the belief that all creation will be saved, either immediately or after a short chastizement. I reject that.

Thus, all are reconciled to God in one way or another.

Didn't say that. Outright said the contrary.

By definition, that's universalism.

You don't know what it is. Saying that creation will be transfigured isn't the same as saying all will experience heaven. That's an entirely different topic AGAIN. The experience of hell is permanent and painful; I am NOT going to say that again and quite frankly, I shouldn't have to. If you actually READ MY INITIAL POST you'd see exactly why your equivocations are fallacious.

You can disagree with my eschatology, but to condemn it as Universalism is absurd. Again, common sense would say that, since staff has seen the post and it were Universalism, it would be edited or the thread moved for that reason. It hasn't. Therefore, it isn't a promotion of Universalism, and forgive me, but they wouldn't be allowed to staff this forum if they were ignorant on theology.

If you think I am wrong, then let's up the ante: report my "Universalist" post. Or, invite staff to personally intervene or ask one.

Without attempting to boast, I'm rather knowledgeable about theology. I know the history of theology, ecclesiology, and Christian philosophy fairly well. I'm extremely big on orthodoxy and I have little interest in adopting what is historically condemned. That includes Universalism.

That said, how about answering the question.

My initial post answers the question, staff has done nothing to my post, and another poster called you on your bad definition. I have nothing against you, but I do have something against your false accusation. Say you disagree with my eschatological views all you want, but to accuse me of something I am not guilty of is absurd.

 

[98cwitr]

A simple yes or no will suffice...just so we're clear. Unless you're avoiding giving a closed-ended answer, and in that case I hope you'll let me know that as well.

 

[zeke37]

it's not universalism, even tho i disagree with his view.

 

[Timothew]

No, God sends no one to Hell. Hell was create for Satan and it's followers and people who reject God go there. God is willing that all should be saved but many will reject Him and He will not force them somewhere they do no want to go.

If you invited someone into your house and they for no reason decided to hate you would you still force them in? Neither would God

If you invited someone into your house and they for no reason decided to hate you would you torture them for all eternity? Neither would God.

What did God say that we should do to our enemies?
He didn't tell us to torture them, but He did tell us to imitate Him.
Ephesian 5:1

 

[Jipsah]

No, God sends no one to Hell.

If He created Hell as the default destination of the unsaved, then yeah, He sends people there, en masse. If you believe in eternal torment, then it's no good trying to let God off the hook for having designed it that way.

If you invited someone into your house and they for no reason decided to hate you would you still force them in? Neither would God

And if I had arranged it so that the only alternative to coming in to my house was being tortured for the rest of their lives, what then? Would I get to say, "Well, I gave 'em a choice. Come into my house or be tortured without mercy for life. I don't force them, and if they choose the torture that's the only alternative I offer then that's their lookout." No onus on me then, huh?

 

[ViaCrucis]

I believe in Hell.

I don't believe Hell is a location though.

At the end of everything only God knows what will happen and what everything will be like. As such I am intentionally non-dogmatic about such things. I don't believe a dogmatic position over such things is tenable.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[JohnRabbit]

i've been appalled at the post's i've been reading, save Timothew's!

what does the prophet say?

Malachi 4:1(NKJV)
1 “For behold, the day is coming, Burning like an oven, And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn them up,” Says the Lord of hosts, “That will leave them neither root nor branch.

stubble? "burned up? you've got to be clueless not to know what that means!

Malachi 4:3(NKJV)
3 You shall trample the wicked, For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet On the day that I do this,” Says the Lord of hosts.

how is being burnt to ashes compared to burning forever? you've got bo be kidding me!

where is the location of "hell"?

would you believe earth?

2 Peter 3:10-13(NKJV)
10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up (burned up! consistent with malachi!)
11Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
12looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?
13Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

ever wondered why the bible talks about a new heaven and new earth?

melted, dissolved, burned up! (hello?)

a time when the whole earth is on fire!

sounds far-fetched? where did the flood take place and what was it's mission?

and, why is "hell" (which is supposed to be the fire), itself, thrown in the fire?

and for those, who after reading this still believe that one burns forever, then explain this:

1 John 3:15(NKJV)
15Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

you do know that, right?

or,you'd have to admit he'd have to have eternal life in order to burn forever (just believe rom 6:23).

 

[College Boy]

Hell exists, here and now just as much as in the next life. We also have the ability to choose whether or not we want that to continue because of Gods love.

I believe when we see people in dire poverty, hunger or thirst, or when we see women and children smuggled around the globe like commodities to be traded, or when orphans are abused, mistreated and neglected that we're witnessing the very existence of hell-on-earth. Yet we have the ability to say "no more" and contribute towards the end of it. I think the same may apply for those who would experience hell in the next life, I think Gods love would allow them to say "no more". No more doing things my way, enough of this story I've been telling myself. I think that it's possible that when this happens, God may allow them to enter into his presence.

Like Lewis said, "the doors of hell are locked from the inside".

 

[Timothew]

I read John Rabbit's post which explains the biblical view so well.
Then it is discouraging to read the very next post which says "Hell exists."

In order to say "hell exists" you need to first read John Rabbit's post and explain why the bible verses he posted don't really mean what they say. Be very imaginative when you wave away these verses, I especially like the very long posts that essentially say "the bible didn't mean it when it said the wicked would be destroyed."

But don't just ignore the bible and say "Hell Exists."