hell

[ke1985]

There is a debate whether or not hell exists. Some believe non believers just die, while others are sure of a long and agonizing eternity in hell. Here is my question: Why would God desire hell over death?

Most christians would never send anyone to burn in hell for eternity. But, we grant God this right. So, why would a loving and kind God rather create hell than a place of nothingness? Does this not seem sadistic?

 

[Sieben]

Why do you think he will let everyone off with a painless death instead of paying for each and every penny?

 

[Mikecpking]

It is interestting a lot of more modern translations use the word 'grave' where in the KJV has hell in many cases. Imagery for eternal punishment is throughout scripture, but 'sheol' and 'hades' should be renedered as the common abode for the dead until the resurrection, and not the place of punishment some people believe.

 

[PaladinValer]

Whoever said the experience of hell would be physically painful?

Waaaaay too much Dante...

 

[ebia]

Whoever said the experience of hell would be physically painful?

Waaaaay too much Dante...

And not enough CS Lewis.

 

[whitetiger1]

There is a debate whether or not hell exists. Some believe non believers just die, while others are sure of a long and agonizing eternity in hell. Here is my question: Why would God desire hell over death?

Most Christians would never send anyone to burn in hell for eternity. But, we grant God this right. So, why would a loving and kind God rather create hell than a place of nothingness? Does this not seem sadistic?

No, God sends no one to Hell. Hell was create for Satan and it's followers and people who reject God go there. God is willing that all should be saved but many will reject Him and He will not force them somewhere they do no want to go.

If you invited someone into your house and they for no reason decided to hate you would you still force them in? Neither would God

 

[Sieben]

Whoever said the experience of hell would be physically painful?

Waaaaay too much Dante...

well he does ressurect, and throws both 'body and soul' into the lake of fire

 

[98cwitr]

NIV - 17 references to hell and the lake of fire

Matthew 5:22
But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.
Matthew 5:21-23 (in Context) Matthew 5 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 5:29
If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.
Matthew 5:28-30 (in Context) Matthew 5 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 5:30
And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.
Matthew 5:29-31 (in Context) Matthew 5 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matthew 10:27-29 (in Context) Matthew 10 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 18:9
And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.
Matthew 18:8-10 (in Context) Matthew 18 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 23:15
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.
Matthew 23:14-16 (in Context) Matthew 23 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 23:33
“You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
Matthew 23:32-34 (in Context) Matthew 23 (Whole Chapter)
Mark 9:43
If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.
Mark 9:42-44 (in Context) Mark 9 (Whole Chapter)
Mark 9:45
And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell.
Mark 9:44-46 (in Context) Mark 9 (Whole Chapter)
Mark 9:47
And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell,
Mark 9:46-48 (in Context) Mark 9 (Whole Chapter)
Luke 12:5
But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after your body has been killed, has authority to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.
Luke 12:4-6 (in Context) Luke 12 (Whole Chapter)
Acts 6:1
[ The Choosing of the Seven ] In those days when the number of disciples was increasing, the hellenistic Jews among them complained against the Hebraic Jews because their widows were being overlooked in the daily distribution of food.
Acts 6:1-3 (in Context) Acts 6 (Whole Chapter)
Acts 9:29
He talked and debated with the hellenistic Jews, but they tried to kill him.
Acts 9:28-30 (in Context) Acts 9 (Whole Chapter)
James 3:6
The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole body, sets the whole course of one’s life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.
James 3:5-7 (in Context) James 3 (Whole Chapter)
2 Peter 2:4
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;
2 Peter 2:3-5 (in Context) 2 Peter 2 (Whole Chapter)


Yep...looks like people + the devil will go there...

"lake of fire"

Revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
Revelation 20:13-15 (in Context) Revelation 20 (Whole Chapter)
Revelation 20:15
Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:14-15 (in Context) Revelation 20 (Whole Chapter)

 

[elopez]

There is a debate whether or not hell exists. Some believe non believers just die, while others are sure of a long and agonizing eternity in hell. Here is my question: Why would God desire hell over death?

Hell, as in eternal punishment, is just as much of a reality as is eternal life (Matthew 25:46). If punishment is without end, the soul of the unrighteous does not just cease to exist. That said, it is a mere assumption to think God desires any soul to experience Hell.

Most christians would never send anyone to burn in hell for eternity. But, we grant God this right. So, why would a loving and kind God rather create hell than a place of nothingness? Does this not seem sadistic?

First, what do you mean by God 'sending' one to Hell? How is it not the one's fault of his own sins? God doesn't make man sin he does it of his own will, so one 'sends' themselves to Hell. We grant the right for God to judge because His assessments are more fair and just than ours could ever be. God originally didn't create Hell, and when He did it was specifically for Lucifer and his fallen angels. Only after man started rebelling too that he was subject to such punishment.

 

[ke1985]

I am quite disturbed and discouraged by the responses. God could have chosen man's fate to be nothingness. But, that isn't painful enough right? Everyone who replied would never send their child to hell (if possible) because of their sins. Why is God exempt from this sort of moral standard? Too many people are believing in God due to fear of hell and they will rationalize why God allows people to go to hell.

 

[elopez]

I am quite disturbed and discouraged by the responses. God could have chosen man's fate to be nothingness. But, that isn't painful enough right? Everyone who replied would never send their child to hell (if possible) because of their sins. Why is God exempt from this sort of moral standard? Too many people are believing in God due to fear of hell and they will rationalize why God allows people to go to hell.

To make any progress of discussion, which is what I highly doubt you came here to do, you would need to actually reply to what people have said instead of just repeating something that has been addressed.

Oh and btw, I don't believe in God because I fear Hell.

 

[whitetiger1]

I am quite disturbed and discouraged by the responses. God could have chosen man's fate to be nothingness. But, that isn't painful enough right? Everyone who replied would never send their child to hell (if possible) because of their sins. Why is God exempt from this sort of moral standard? Too many people are believing in God due to fear of hell and they will rationalize why God allows people to go to hell.

Did you even read anything here? GOD DOES NOT SEND ANYONE TO HELL. Maybe you can read that. You spout a great myth that people believe in God because they fear hell.

 

[PaladinValer]

And not enough CS Lewis.

Absolutely!

well he does ressurect, and throws both 'body and soul' into the lake of fire

Figurative language.

NIV - 17 references to hell and the lake of fire

Matthew 5:22
But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.
Matthew 5:21-23 (in Context) Matthew 5 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 5:29
If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.
Matthew 5:28-30 (in Context) Matthew 5 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 5:30
And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.
Matthew 5:29-31 (in Context) Matthew 5 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matthew 10:27-29 (in Context) Matthew 10 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 18:9
And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.
Matthew 18:8-10 (in Context) Matthew 18 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 23:15
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.
Matthew 23:14-16 (in Context) Matthew 23 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 23:33
“You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
Matthew 23:32-34 (in Context) Matthew 23 (Whole Chapter)
Mark 9:43
If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.
Mark 9:42-44 (in Context) Mark 9 (Whole Chapter)
Mark 9:45
And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell.
Mark 9:44-46 (in Context) Mark 9 (Whole Chapter)
Mark 9:47
And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell,
Mark 9:46-48 (in Context) Mark 9 (Whole Chapter)
Luke 12:5
But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after your body has been killed, has authority to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.
Luke 12:4-6 (in Context) Luke 12 (Whole Chapter)
Acts 6:1
[ The Choosing of the Seven ] In those days when the number of disciples was increasing, the hellenistic Jews among them complained against the Hebraic Jews because their widows were being overlooked in the daily distribution of food.
Acts 6:1-3 (in Context) Acts 6 (Whole Chapter)
Acts 9:29
He talked and debated with the hellenistic Jews, but they tried to kill him.
Acts 9:28-30 (in Context) Acts 9 (Whole Chapter)
James 3:6
The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole body, sets the whole course of one’s life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.
James 3:5-7 (in Context) James 3 (Whole Chapter)
2 Peter 2:4
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;
2 Peter 2:3-5 (in Context) 2 Peter 2 (Whole Chapter)


Yep...looks like people + the devil will go there...

"lake of fire"

Revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
Revelation 20:13-15 (in Context) Revelation 20 (Whole Chapter)
Revelation 20:15
Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:14-15 (in Context) Revelation 20 (Whole Chapter)

Figurative language.

In orthodox theology, nothing is destroyed. God incarnated to save His entire creation. All existence will be resurrected and transfigured. As for people, all of us will have everlasting life, although some of us will find it a terrible experience.

The idea of heaven upon the Second Advent as being somewhere else like it is now is popular theology. Heaven will be HERE; the Church is a foreshadowment and a sliver of God's Kingdom here as it is, but when His celestial realm unites with our material plane, it will be an event beyond human imagining.

As for hell, that too will finally come about. It, however, will be HERE as well. Hell is a real place in the future, and that place is here. Those who reject God's sacrificial love and grace will not be forced to accept it. God will Judge those who don't want it accordingly. However, God will not leave His returned Presence HERE. Those who will experience hell will find that Presence, now everlasting and them unable to find joy in our next Eden to be PAINFUL. They will gnash their teeth and wail, but the sounds of the joyous will drown them out.

A place of physical pain has nothing on the pain that I describe above. God is a God of Life, not death. There is no more destruction. God won't harm a hair of the damned. He will allow them what they want: to be separate from Him, yet at the same time, His actual Presence will be all around them.

That isn't a contradiction if you consider the fact that the Holy Spirit is always Present. Plenty of people here who live don't live according to the grace and love gifted by Him. As we can see, no contradictions at all.

No one populates hell now because hell doesn't exist yet. There is a holding place for fallen angels, but that was only for angels. They too will be released and Judged.

In the end, there will be only one realm: a union of our material plane with God's celestial realm. That's it. How we experience that will determine if we are experiencing heaven or hell.

 

[98cwitr]

Tell it to Christ when you see Him. Your universalism calls Him a liar.

God is the God of all. See Isaiah 45.

 

[visionary]

There is a debate whether or not hell exists. Some believe non believers just die, while others are sure of a long and agonizing eternity in hell. Here is my question: Why would God desire hell over death?

Most christians would never send anyone to burn in hell for eternity. But, we grant God this right. So, why would a loving and kind God rather create hell than a place of nothingness? Does this not seem sadistic?

Who ever gets into the burning fire ends up ashes.

 

[Whisper of Hope]

Tell it to Christ when you see Him. Your universalism calls Him a liar.

God is the God of all. See Isaiah 45.

Amen brother.

 

[zeke37]

There is a debate whether or not hell exists. Some believe non believers just die, while others are sure of a long and agonizing eternity in hell. Here is my question: Why would God desire hell over death?

Most christians would never send anyone to burn in hell for eternity. But, we grant God this right. So, why would a loving and kind God rather create hell than a place of nothingness? Does this not seem sadistic?

I am quite disturbed and discouraged by the responses. God could have chosen man's fate to be nothingness. But, that isn't painful enough right? Everyone who replied would never send their child to hell (if possible) because of their sins. Why is God exempt from this sort of moral standard? Too many people are believing in God due to fear of hell and they will rationalize why God allows people to go to hell.

at the death of the flesh, we all go to heaven....good or bad.
as lazarus and the rich man story goes, there is a gulf in between the good part and the not so good part...
folks on either side of that gulf can view and communicate with each other....
that is the first death, that of the flesh.

(ps. the rich man was in a condition of hell, not a physical place called hell)




the second death, for those it applies to, is the death of the soul in the lake of Fire at Judgement.

that is how many folks think of "hell".

there is no eternal torture in flames etc, for the wicked.....
the result of what happens in the lake of fire, the evil soul's annihilation, is eternal.

smoke of their torments might rise forever, but they will not burn in flames of literal torture forever.

as you said, that would be sadistic.

 

[visionary]

Malachi 4:3
Then you will trample on the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I act,” says the LORD Almighty.

 

[PaladinValer]

Tell it to Christ when you see Him. Your universalism calls Him a liar.

God is the God of all. See Isaiah 45.

and, in agreement,

Amen brother.

Excuse me?

Quote me where I deny an eternal hell experience or retract your accusations.

Learn what universalism is before you accuse people of it.

 

[98cwitr]

and, in agreement,

[/SIZE][/FONT]

Excuse me?

Quote me where I deny an eternal hell experience or retract your accusations.

Learn what universalism is before you accuse people of it.

"God incarnated to save His entire creation."

^^^That's universalism. Period.

"No one populates hell now because hell doesn't exist yet"

Luke 16.

"In orthodox theology, nothing is destroyed"

Lies....

Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

...and I'm not talking about annihilationism. I'm talking about burning in hell for eternity.

At this point, you need to provide scripture to prove your point, because it's my opinion you're spouting personal beliefs based on what men have taught you:

Isaiah 29:13
The Lord says: “These people come near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship of me is based on merely human rules they have been taught.