Hell?

[anisavta]

Typical. I ask what does the bible say and there is resounding silence.

Because we're not jumping to your command in your time?

 

[Timothew]

Because we're not jumping to your command in your time?

Don't jump. Don't answer. I don't care.

 

[anisavta]

Post # 60. I did answer. Don't be rude.

 

[yedida]

Don't jump. Don't answer. I don't care.

If you don't care, why'd you come in here to get answers?

 

[Timothew]

Isaiah 66:24 "As they leave, they will look on the corpses of the people who rebelled against me. For their worm will never die, and their fire will never be quenched; but they will be abhorrent to all humanity."
Mark 9:43 If your hand makes you sin, cut it off! Better that you should be maimed but obtain eternal life, rather than keep both hands and go to Gei-Hinnom, to unquenchable fire! 44 45 And if your foot makes you sin, cut it off! Better that you should be lame but obtain eternal life, rather than keep both feet and be thrown into Gei-Hinnom! 46 47 And if your eye makes you sin, pluck it out! Better that you should be one-eyed but enter the Kingdom of God, rather than keep both eyes and be thrown into Gei-Hinnom, 48 where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.

Sorry, I missed it at the bottom of the last page.

I see corpses in your post. Aren't corpses the bodies of the dead?
I see eternal life in your second reference. The opposite of eternal life is death.

Sorry, I'm not seeing eternal torment in hell in your answer.

BTW, what was the result of the judgment of Sodom? What happened to the people who were once living in Sodom when the fire came down? Were they tormented in this flame for all eternity? Or did they die in the fire? What happened to Lot's Wife? Was she tormented as a salt pillar or did she die as a result of being turned to salt? What was Lot afraid of, as he fled Sodom? Was he afraid of death or eternal torment?

 

[Timothew]

If you don't care, why'd you come in here to get answers?

I didn't. I went to the Bible for answers.

 

[INTJ-F]

Originally Posted by Timothew

Typical. I ask what does the bible say and there is resounding silence.
​

Because we're not jumping to your command in your time?

Anti Torah and I immediately 'plunked' him into my ignore list - I'm here to learn and fellowship not debate about what the bible is clear on. Those who do not believe in eternity do so to justify their sin without a fear of eternal punishment and that does not belong in the congregation (that is for the unbelievers to discuss)

 

[Timothew]

Anti Torah and I immediately 'plunked' him into my ignore list - I'm here to learn and fellowship not debate about what the bible is clear on. Those who do not believe in eternity do so to justify their sin without a fear of eternal punishment and that does not belong in the congregation (that is for the unbelievers to discuss)

Ignoring the truth won't make it go away. But I will go away.

 

[anisavta]

We don't mind a discussion. However because of your icon you may fellowship but not debate.
You ignored my scripture reference in Mark. Care to comment on that one?
You seem to be hung up on physical death. There are many more layers to scripture than you've noticed.

 

[anisavta]

Typical. I ask what does the bible say and there is resounding silence.

Just curious - typical for who? Care to respond?

 

[INTJ-F]

Typical. I ask what does the bible say and there is resounding silence.
​

Just curious - typical for who? Care to respond?

They will ignore / redact any scripture you come up with. It isn't worth the time or effort - he is here to cause strife and confusion, not to learn or fellowship.

 

[anisavta]

But remember just because someone does not have the same beliefs and theology as you or I does not mean they are here to cause "strife or confusion". Many do come here just to "set us straight", but to label everyone we disagree with a bad apple is a bit pretentious.

 

[INTJ-F]

But remember just because someone does not have the same beliefs and theology as you or I does not mean they are here to cause "strife or confusion". Many do come here just to "set us straight", but to label everyone we disagree with a bad apple is a bit pretentious.

They need to do that outside of the MJ congregation, not from within it. This is suppose to be a safe place from that.

 

[GuardianShua]

That story is an obvious corruption because it disagrees with scriptures. Yahshua would not have said that.
The Rich Man and Lazarus
Luke 16:19. "There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

Wealth, comfort, poverty, and suffering have nothing to do with a person’s salvation.

22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'

The word messenger is replaced with the word angel. And assuming that this is a parable, there would be no need for Lazarus to be carried to Abraham, and before the resurrection. As for being in Hell and torment and agony; that contradicts the verse that says the dead know nothing. It also is a contradiction where scripture says that Yahwah kills the condemned. In regards to the water on the finger; that would evaporate before it even got to a person. It also contradicts where God said “you will surly die.”

25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'

Again I say to you that wealth and poverty has nothing to do with the resurrection of the righteous. There is one truth in all of this, and that there is a chasm that has been set in place; and that is called death of the condemned, which are killed by Yahwah. There is no life for them afterward.

27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'

30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'
31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

These are obviously the words of a dim wit, and not the words of an ancient being. No place in these verses is credit given to Yahwah, but only to Moses and the prophets; which would be unlike Yahshua to exclude Him in matters of life and death.

Hell is a pagan belief and part of the Pagan religion. Why would Yahshua use a nonexistent biblical teaching for which he never explains afterward? Before the return from Babylon, Judaism never taught the concept of hell. After the return from Babylon the Hellenistic and Kabbalistic Jews began to introduce Hell into Judaism.

Yahshua never identified the story as a parable, and never explained the relevance as he did in other legitimate parables.
Yahshua, being an ancient being full of knowledge and wisdom, would have had the good sense to explain the new concept. Obviously the story of “The Rich Man and Lazarus” are the words of some man introducing the Pagan concept of Hell.

Genesis 2:17
but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."

Genesis 3:3
but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "

Genesis 3:4
"You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman.

Genesis 18:25
Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?"

Luke 20:16
"What then will the owner of the vineyard do to them? He will come and kill those tenants and give the vineyard to others." When the people heard this, they said, "May this never be!"

Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten.

Revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
Most likely the word Hades replaced the word Gehenna or grave when translated.

Revelation 21
The New Jerusalem
1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."
5 He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."
6 He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

Everyone one here needs to remember that they are reading parables. Not everything can be taken literal.

 

[A_Pioneer]

Soul ceases to be a soul when the breath goes back to God!
Only those who are saved have an eternity to spend!
There is no everburning hell in the New Heaven and New earth!
We all have to be somewhere while the Heavens and the Earth are Koshered by fire!
With Yeshua in Abrahams bosom maybe. I don't know. Ever burning souls in an everburning hell is not something my heavenly Father would do!

Everburning hell, IMHO is ungodly!

 

[yedida]

They need to do that outside of the MJ congregation, not from within it. This is suppose to be a safe place from that.

Until they begin to vigorously debate or attempt to teach us, they are welcome to come in and learn. This could be the only place where they get the unadulterated Word.

 

[INTJ-F]

Soul ceases to be a soul when the breath goes back to God!
Only those who are saved have an eternity to spend!
There is no everburning hell in the New Heaven and New earth!
We all have to be somewhere while the Heavens and the Earth are Koshered by fire!
With Yeshua in Abrahams bosom maybe. I don't know. Ever burning souls in an everburning hell is not something my heavenly Father would do!

Numerous scriptures have been posted to show you are wrong.

Yeshua spoke more of hell than He did of heaven. He said it is eternal

Many use your arguements to rationalize God away "God is love and He would not have had all those people killed" / etc. usually by those who believe everyone gets to haven.

To deny the existence of an eternal hell is to deny Yeshua's words

 

[GuardianShua]

I do not know what everyone is thinking, but hell is not an original teaching of Judaism.

 

[anisavta]

Have you studied Talmud to know that for a fact?

 

[GuardianShua]

Numerous scriptures have been posted to show you are wrong.

Yeshua spoke more of hell than He did of heaven. He said it is eternal

Many use your arguments to rationalize God away "God is love and He would not have had all those people killed" / etc. usually by those who believe everyone gets to haven.

To deny the existence of an eternal hell is to deny Yeshua's words

You are forgetting about where God says in Revelation hell [the grave] is done away with. The word grave, Gehenna, and pit does not mean hell.