Hell is a correctional jail

[Shiversblood]

What if God looked at an agnostic guy after he died who was a decent man in life with not too many good works and God said, "I sentence you to 60,000 years in hell." (Maybe some years in purgitory too afterward.) And then the guy is accepted in Heaven. Or maybe, there is a guy who was CHristian but commited a lot of sins in his life *Drinking problem, robberies, drug problem, or any sin, and said, "Even though your eternal life is guarnteed to you through the blood of Jesus, still you must serve 3,000 years in hell before you are allowed in heaven.

 

[Nadiine]

What if God looked at an agnostic guy after he died who was a decent man in life with not too many good works and God said, "I sentence you to 60,000 years in hell." (Maybe some years in purgitory too afterward.) And then the guy is accepted in Heaven. Or maybe, there is a guy who was CHristian but commited a lot of sins in his life *Drinking problem, robberies, drug problem, or any sin, and said, "Even though your eternal life is guarnteed to you through the blood of Jesus, still you must serve 3,000 years in hell before you are allowed in heaven.

What I see here is a basic lack of realizing how much God HATES sin - how evil it really is and WHAT EVIL IS.

Romans 1:18-32 teaches that people KNOW God's moral laws, and know God exists and are without excuse to reject God [when He calls them personally]. So agnostics are choosing to reject what they already know inwardly bcuz God has PUT IT in them. It's called denial & suppression of truth they have.

All I ask is if you can show us the scriptures that would back up such a theory? Where does it teach that God puts them in temporarily, then lets them back out?
Also, you have this other TINY little problem of "FAITH". Salvation is through FAITH - not works. You're basically floating a works based salvation: IF YOU PAY for your sins, you get out... that's purely works-based.

Additionally, the LAW demands LIFE FOR LIFE.. the 2nd death is eternal condemnation - it's not a work release program. The 2nd death is where the SOUL "gives it's life" FOREVER. Sin is permanent, sin doesn't just "go away" after some time passes. And it's ONLY the blood of Jesus that removes it. Animal blood didn't remove sin (Heb. 9-10) - it doesn't GET removed by people "paying for it".

What "faith" is there after you meet God the Father in the next life and see Him face to face on His throne and get judged with all your sin and sentenced to punishment. Do you call that "faith"? Or would you "repent" becuz you want out & you're scared and hate pain??
WHY would they be accepting God. Biblically, those who go to hell gnash their teeth in derision... they aren't repentant actually, they're ANGRY.

People have already been warned what hell is & a majority have/had bibles; so if they continue in what they know, aren't they in fact agreeing to the punishment?
Kinda like if a death penalty exists for a state and you murder someone in that state?? You're pretty much signing your life away by committing a crime worthy of that penalty.

I'd also add once again, that if God let people out of the Lake of Fire & into heaven, then He wouldn't be a JUST God... you have people that GAVE their lives - either literally in martyrdom or sacrificed their desires to follow God (living sacrifices in obedience)... it's quite unjust to them who believed God & gave everything up in this life like God has required them to by FAITH, to have Him turn around & let them waltz back into God's paradise with them forever.

Lastly again, you're assuming sin just "goes away" if they "go to jail" for a period of time... that's NOT how sin is "done away with"!
God has told us the system for removal of sin from us - FAITH IN CHRIST during this lifetime. Not AFTER it's proven when we meet God as judge on His throne.

A theory is just that - theoretical. You can't just wish something into existance and it becomes true.
You need to have your theory taught in God's word - HE tells us what is true not the other way around.

People HAVE TIME NOW to choose the Lord.
All the more reason we should busy spreading the gospel and praying for the lost to SEE and accept their salvation that Christ is freely offering.

 

[Ben12]

Below is the definition of sin according to Hebrew and Greek; basically an offense; miss the mark. The word sin did not appear in the Bible until Genesis 4: 7. What I hear from you brothers and sisters is sin is the most powerful force in this world today and without the blood of Jesus there is no forgiveness. As a Christian Universalist (CU) I hate labels; I never knew I was a CU until I got on these FORUMS. What I see is the blood of Jesus; reverse the curse and sin was dealt with right their on Calvary.

OT:2403
chatta'ah (khat-taw-aw'); or chatta'th (khat-tawth'); from OT:2398; an offence (sometimes habitual sinfulness), and its penalty, occasion, sacrifice, or expiation; also (concretely) an offender:

NT:266
hamartia (ham-ar-tee'-ah); from NT:264; a sin (properly abstract):

According to Webster: Main Entry: 1sin
Pronunciation: 'sin
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English sinne, from Old English synn; akin to Old High German sunta sin and probably to Latin sont-, sons guilty, est is -- more at IS
1 a : an offense against religious or moral law b : an action that is or is felt to be highly reprehensible <it's a sin to waste food> c : an often serious shortcoming : FAULT
2 a : transgression of the law of God b : a vitiated state of human nature in which the self is estranged from God

 

[james415]

But I also know and understand there is a deep hidden spiritual message; and I understand why people of God do not hear, or spiritually see the deeper message. But it is not the problem is the church today is far to carnal and the last thing they would ever look for is some thing spiritual. Something new, something deep and something higher. Mystery (Gk) sacred secret.

Ben – Do you believe the eyes of many are closed by choice or by God for His purpose?

 

[PeacaHeaven]

Below is the definition of sin according to Hebrew and Greek; basically an offense; miss the mark. The word sin did not appear in the Bible until Genesis 4: 7. What I hear from you brothers and sisters is sin is the most powerful force in this world today and without the blood of Jesus there is no forgiveness. As a Christian Universalist (CU) I hate labels; I never knew I was a CU until I got on these FORUMS. What I see is the blood of Jesus; reverse the curse and sin was dealt with right their on Calvary.

OT:2403
chatta'ah (khat-taw-aw'); or chatta'th (khat-tawth'); from OT:2398; an offence (sometimes habitual sinfulness), and its penalty, occasion, sacrifice, or expiation; also (concretely) an offender:

NT:266
hamartia (ham-ar-tee'-ah); from NT:264; a sin (properly abstract):

According to Webster: Main Entry: 1sin
Pronunciation: 'sin
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English sinne, from Old English synn; akin to Old High German sunta sin and probably to Latin sont-, sons guilty, est is -- more at IS
1 a : an offense against religious or moral law b : an action that is or is felt to be highly reprehensible <it's a sin to waste food> c : an often serious shortcoming : FAULT
2 a : transgression of the law of God b : a vitiated state of human nature in which the self is estranged from God

What you're failing to miss in this reversal of a curse, is that it's only reversed by accepting Jesus Christ through faith in him.
That is the only way to obtain any pardon or release for sin.

 

[Ben12]

I have a question for you Eternalhellist out there what is a Cherbim, what is the mercy seat as addressed in Hebrews 9.5? Who is this Jesus who could only deal with a little bit of sin; whose sacrifice could only appease just a little bit of God the Father’s anger?

"And He is the propitiation (mercy seat) for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." [1 John 2:2].
"And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat." [Hebrews 9:5].

God's goodwill is spontaneous and unchangeable, it does not vacillate according to the merits or demerits of the individual. "God commendeth His love towards us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. -- When we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son." [Romans 5:8, 10].

It was "while we were yet sinners" that He poured forth His life for us, and while we were enemies He revealed His love to, and for us. Therefore we dare not view any man with the thought, "does he deserve it?" Because there was no way that we ourselves deserved it, we had no merits to claim that love, but it was freely given to us just the same, and we shall learn to freely give in like manner. Furthermore, it says, "not imputing their trespasses unto them..." [2 Corinthians 5:19]. I understand this is the hard part, especially if you have been raised with that heavy hangover of condemnation and charging every man with guilt and shame. It was a sin to do this, it was a sin to do that, and we were so sin-conscious that we were not able to kindle any consciousness of forgiveness and love, or to express of HIS mercy.
Ah, what mercy superabounds in the New Covenant, where one does not impute, does not charge man with sin. Seems as if the very moment we see someone doing what we consider is wrong, we immediately want to brand them as sinners, and heap condemnation upon them for their deed, thus thrusting them farther into darkness, with a guilt complex. Rather, we need to come into that place where we are able to turn on the light, reveal the love and life of Christ, and give them a more excellent way, with power to live righteously. Tell the world the good news, that in Christ they shall find the fullness of life for which they have yearned. But to make this transition, till we are no more condemnation-conscious, but rather become CHRIST-LIFE-CONSCIOUS, this is a process indeed.
"For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more." [Hebrews 8 :12] .
"God be merciful to me a sinner." [Luke 18:13].
Both times we find this word "merciful" coming from the same root word for mercyseat, or propitiation. There is no appeasement, no soothing if all the time we remember man's sin, and continue to charge them with guilt. But here God says that He will not remember, will not call to mind the iniquity of man, but writing His laws upon their hearts and minds, and giving them power to live a holy life, sin will be erased from the universe.
The publican, standing in the temple, filled with his own sense of shame, cried out, "God, be the mercyseat for my sin, appease my sins, soothe my troubled conscience, deliver me from the workings of sin in my life." Praise God, "HE SHALL SAVE HIS PEOPLE FROM THEIR SINS," and also deliver them from all consciousness of evil, so that, we might be only conscious of God and His righteousness.

 

[Ben12]

What you're failing to miss in this reversal of a curse, is that it's only reversed by accepting Jesus Christ through faith in him.
That is the only way to obtain any pardon or release for sin.

No I am not ignoring what you are saying but I do not base my beliefs on John 3:16; but instead on the blood of Jesus and is is much more powerful then the sin of Adam.

[FONT=&quot]Romans 5:18-20 ([/FONT][FONT=&quot]Weymouth[/FONT][FONT=&quot]’s)[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]It follows then just as the result of a single transgression is a condemnation which to the whole race, so also is the result of a single degree of righteousness is a life giving acquittal which extends to the whole race. (19) for as thought the disobedience of one individual the mass of mankind were constituted as sinners, so also though the obedience of one, the mass of mankind will be constituted righteous. Now law was brought in later on so that the transgression might increase, but sin increased, grace is overflowed.[/FONT]​

 

[Ben12]

Ben – Do you believe the eyes of many are closed by choice or by God for His purpose?

God in His purpose

 

[johnchao]

James 3:5-65 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth! James 3:5-66 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
Speaking on one's own is a fire of hell.

 

[johnchao]

People think; if one goes to hell, it will never leave there, this does not have sense.

But, if hell is a place where conscience is taken from our bad conducts, for the repentance, then, hell is a place of true correction, where we cleaned ourselves of all our bad spirits,

Thus it would have sense

Those who violate the law are in jail (Isa42:21-22), and the fire of tongue is burning them, yet they do not take it to heart (23-25)

 

[Ben12]

James 3:5-65 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth! James 3:5-66 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
Speaking on one's own is a fire of hell.

What is hell? But a Teutonic pagan word that is not in the original language of the Bible.

What does the Bible say about fire? Cloven tongues of fire; God is a consuming fire. When you look at the word fire and its meaning in scripture is is but a tool of God to purge and purify.
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

 

[Nadiine]

No I am not ignoring what you are saying but I do not base my beliefs on John 3:16; but instead on the blood of Jesus and is is much more powerful then the sin of Adam.

[FONT=&quot]Romans 5:18-20 ([/FONT][FONT=&quot]Weymouth[/FONT][FONT=&quot]’s)[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]It follows then just as the result of a single transgression is a condemnation which to the whole race, so also is the result of a single degree of righteousness is a life giving acquittal which extends to the whole race. (19) for as thought the disobedience of one individual the mass of mankind were constituted as sinners, so also though the obedience of one, the mass of mankind will be constituted righteous. Now law was brought in later on so that the transgression might increase, but sin increased, grace is overflowed.[/FONT]​

TRUTH isn't based in OPINION though. Is it??

We're told how this works in the Bible. SIN PRODUCES DEATH - and that's the penalty of sin. There are 2 deaths. One of the body, the other is destruction/damnation of the soul eternally (annihilationism theories aside).

The things you keep speaking of in using scripture to support your belief ARE ABOUT THE GRACE GOD'S GIVEN US TO CHOOSE THIS IN LIFE.
IN LIFE we have opportunity BY GOD'S GRACE & MERCY to believe in Christ thru faith, or reject Christ's pardon and pay the penalty for our own sins.

Mercy increases HERE, not after death. This is what has been shown to you in well over 15 verses & parables/principles. Yet instead, you ignore all those to embrace what you WANT it to be.
It defeats the necessity of Salvation here in this life.

People don't get 2nd chances to try life again & do it God's way.
Hebrews 10 that was posted is proof that people DIE WITHOUT MERCY.
Romans 9 says God has mercy on whom He'll have mercy. And you're told directly that it's judgment time after you die.

You keep using verses outside their context to suit your opinions or hopes and it doesn't make for truth - it makes for twisted intepretation.
It's twisted BECUZ IN THE PROCESS YOU'RE UTTERLY REJECTING THE VERSES THAT SPELL OUT WHAT HAPPENS, and you have no biblical support that explains in any clear detail how and when this process of them getting out occurs!
NONE.

This is basic idolatry; refusing what you're given to embrace what you desire instead. Universalism was never accepted as a church doctrine, nor was it taught.
That should alarm you.

 

[LJSGM]

Yes, the wages of sin is death. But what does death mean? Do we now bring a human understanding of death to this verse, where we are simply separated from God and not resurrected to life? Or do we consider that death may mean being thrown into the lake of fire with the murderers, liars, adulterers and others who are said to go there with the devil and his angels. Also, remember that Hell is not eternal. The Bible does say that it too will be consumed in the lake of fire and destroyed on the last day.

all we have are human reasonings and the Holy spirit, and I know that God is not unreasonable (we were made in his image, were we not?) God uses human words to convey his meanings both literally and spiritually, so therefore, he is going to make his written word understandable (to those that want to listen). He's not going to say in the end, "I said they would die, and be destroyed, but what I really meant was that they would be tortured forever, or tortured for purification, and even though I didn't say it, that's what I really meant." God uses words that we can relate to. We know that death means non-existance in this world, and when he says the second death after we are judged, I believe he means death of the soul, which will be destroyed and be in non-existance as well.

 

[Tavita]

Mercy increases HERE, not after death.
People don't get 2nd chances to try life again & do it God's way.
Hebrews 10 that was posted is proof that people DIE WITHOUT MERCY.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 but a certain fearful looking for judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Is this the scripture you're referring to? I see nothing here about no mercy after death. Here I see mercy. The mercy of going through His cleansing and restorative FIRE, HIS fire that purges of dross to bring forth gold. What is dross but the iniquity within? Do you think going through the fire will be a piece of cake? I am so thankful, as we all should be, that God deals with the dross within us, now.. if we will co-operate with Him. I would rather He dealt with me now, no matter how PAINFUL it can be, than to go through THAT fire.

Can you define exactly who are His adversaries?

Universalism was never accepted as a church doctrine, nor was it taught.

Not true. Church history shows that the concept of universalism was taught in most of the major theology schools in the very beginning of the early Church...

From Wikipedia...

"In Christianity, Universalism refers to the belief that all humans will be saved through Jesus Christ and eventually come to a harmony in God's kingdom. A related doctrine, apokatastasis, is the belief that all mortal beings will be reconciled to God, including Satan and his fallen angels (not all CU agree to this). Universalism was a fairly commonly held view among theologians in early Christianity: In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six known theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Cesarea, and Edessa or Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality, and one (Carthage or Rome) taught the endless punishment of the lost.[1]. The two major theologians opposing it were Tertullian and Augustine.[citation needed] In later centuries, Universalism has become very much a minority position in the major branches of Christianity, though it has a long history of prominent adherents."

• John the Apostle (John 4:42)
• The Didascalia (the Catechetical school of Alexandria)
• Pantaenus, first head of catechetical school at Alexandria
• Clement of Alexandria, second head of catechetical school at Alexandria
• Origen, greatest scholar of the early church
• Athenasius, Archbishop of Alexandria
• Didymus
• Ambrose, Bishop
• Ephraim
• Chrysostum
• Gregory of Nyssa, Bishop
• Gregory of Nazianzus, Bishop and President of the second Church council
• Titus, Bishop of Bostra

These are a sample of the Christian Church in the first three hundred years.

Here is a list of well known people since the beginning. Included are three of your Presidents who if they were not full UC were supportive of it... Abraham Lincoln, Benjamin Franklin, and George Washington. Other names, like the Bronte sisters, William Wallace (Braveheart), Robert and Elizabeth Browning, and a modern theologian and translator, William Barclay..

http://www.tentmaker.org/tracts/Universalist.html

 

[LJSGM]

I am not clear on what you mean by over spiritualizing. I believe most of the stories in the bible actually happened including Christ (Spirit) coming in the flesh (Jesus), but were Gods way of using earthly things we can see and understand to describe heavenly things we can not see and do not understand. Would this be over spiritualizing in your view?

no, but that's why I gave an example, examples are good

I also believe God wants us to stop trusting in what we see, the literal, and put our trust in what is unseen, the spiritual. Would doing this be over spiritualizing?

I believe that God gives double meanings all the time, first the literal (the milk) and then the spiritual (the meat ). The spiritual meaning does not nullify the literal. In fact, it's in the literal meanings where our foundations for truth come from, if we don't believe the literal, how can you carry on into the spiritual truths? Your truth is like being built on sand.

I like to tread carefully when it comes to spiritual truth, even if I see a spiritual meaning, I test it against the rest of scriptures and my literal foundation, for even the elect can be decieved. It is a spiritual battle, and the worse deceptions that are given are the ones with the most truth given with the lie.

 

[LJSGM]

"but have you ever talked to a person that was very close to accepting Jesus' gift of salvation, but couldn't because they could not believe in such a God that would torture people for eternity, and yet, I couldn't give a good arguement for it."

Don't try and give a good argument for it. Instead try this. Ask the person to stop looking at it from a human perspective and try looking at it from God's perspective. How abominable must just one sin be to a holy and righteous God for Him to send people to Hell for all eternity. When we think of it this way it gives us the proper perspective on just how horrible sin is and gives us a wake up call to the harsh realities, because let's face it, as humans we have become desensitized to that.

I used to run into the problem you describe of people being really close to a decision but not being able to do it, then I started using the moral law, God's moral law in my evangelism encounters and then people saw their need for a savior and understood God's wrath more clearly. Suddenly, Hell, became reasonable and just.

"It is a stumbling stone, but perhaps it was put there by God, or perhaps it was put there by satan, should we not discern this if it causes people to loose their free gift of salvation?"

I don't see how it causes people to lose something, they haven't received in the first place. They were close as you have said, but never repented of their sins and trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ. So they are not saved and therefore can not lose salvation, if I understand you correctly.

Lets not go into human emotions and reasoning then. There are all sorts of doctrines of men that have been passed down through the years, and a lot of them are hardly found in the bible at all, and it's because they have been passed down from ear to ear, from leader to student without checking if the bible really says it (called indroctrination). Eternal suffering, I found is one of those doctrines. People think, "if most protestant churches believe it, then it must be true." and never go any further in their searches for truth, but to be honest, eternal suffering is hardly even there, there is little support for it in the bible. In fact, you will not found the two words "eternal suffering" together even once. Why should I believe something that isn't suppported by the bible and is unreasonable as well?

 

[Ben12]

TRUTH isn't based in OPINION though. Is it??

We're told how this works in the Bible. SIN PRODUCES DEATH - and that's the penalty of sin. There are 2 deaths. One of the body, the other is destruction/damnation of the soul eternally (annihilationism theories aside).

The things you keep speaking of in using scripture to support your belief ARE ABOUT THE GRACE GOD'S GIVEN US TO CHOOSE THIS IN LIFE.
IN LIFE we have opportunity BY GOD'S GRACE & MERCY to believe in Christ thru faith, or reject Christ's pardon and pay the penalty for our own sins.

Mercy increases HERE, not after death. This is what has been shown to you in well over 15 verses & parables/principles. Yet instead, you ignore all those to embrace what you WANT it to be.
It defeats the necessity of Salvation here in this life.

People don't get 2nd chances to try life again & do it God's way.
Hebrews 10 that was posted is proof that people DIE WITHOUT MERCY.
Romans 9 says God has mercy on whom He'll have mercy. And you're told directly that it's judgment time after you die.

You keep using verses outside their context to suit your opinions or hopes and it doesn't make for truth - it makes for twisted intepretation.
It's twisted BECUZ IN THE PROCESS YOU'RE UTTERLY REJECTING THE VERSES THAT SPELL OUT WHAT HAPPENS, and you have no biblical support that explains in any clear detail how and when this process of them getting out occurs!
NONE.

This is basic idolatry; refusing what you're given to embrace what you desire instead. Universalism was never accepted as a church doctrine, nor was it taught.
That should alarm you.

The church cannot handle the truth because they are carnal; the churches in Revelations are a perfect example of what the little c church is today. I do not reject the verse you give me; i reject the spirit of condemnation that is behind them. I have given you plenty of Biblical support;but your God has no mercy; just judgment and condemnation and damnation. Funny there is a fourth word which comes from the same word (Gk)Krisis) for judgment,damnation and condemnation; the word is probation. Any of these words can be interchanged; but that would be the last thing an eternalhellist would do. How do you know what the early church in brassed; were you there. All the information you have given me is from the traditions of religion.

 

[Ben12]

[/FONT][/SIZE]

no, but that's why I gave an example, examples are good




I believe that God gives double meanings all the time, first the literal (the milk) and then the spiritual (the meat ). The spiritual meaning does not nullify the literal. In fact, it's in the literal meanings where our foundations for truth come from, if we don't believe the literal, how can you carry on into the spiritual truths? Your truth is like being built on sand.

I like to tread carefully when it comes to spiritual truth, even if I see a spiritual meaning, I test it against the rest of scriptures and my literal foundation, for even the elect can be decieved. It is a spiritual battle, and the worse deceptions that are given are the ones with the most truth given with the lie.

The literal is carnal; it comes from babes and God uses the literal just like He uses Baby lon which is a golden cup in the hands of the Lord.
What is spiritual? What are spiritual things? What are treasures in heaven? What are the true riches? Let me simplify this for you. If sinners can have it or do it without God &#8212; it&#8217;s not spiritual! Someone says, &#8220;I&#8217;m spiritual because I fast.&#8221; Witches fast! Another says, &#8220;I&#8217;m spiritual because I prosper and give vast sums of money to this ministry and that.&#8221; Indeed! Mafia king-pins also prosper and give large amounts of money to all kinds of worthy causes that help and bless people, and the good they do is often more than the churches do with their money. You see, precious friend of mine, human nature is wont to equate spirituality with what we do, or with what we possess. No! A thousand times no!
Even the term &#8220;spiritual&#8221; indicates that it requires the power and ability of the SPIRIT, or that it is an expression of the SPIRIT. Therefore, when we walk in the Spirit and are led by the Spirit, what flows out of us is a dispensation of the life and glory and power and wisdom and nature and will of God Himself &#8212; that is spiritual! Sinners can&#8217;t do that! The carnal mind can&#8217;t produce that! The fleshly nature can&#8217;t generate that! Self-effort is eternally and completely unable to perform that! Answered prayer &#8212; that&#8217;s spiritual. Deliverance and transformation &#8212; that&#8217;s spiritual. Speaking the words of God &#8212; that&#8217;s spiritual. Loving your enemies &#8212; that&#8217;s spiritual. Blessing them that curse you &#8212; that&#8217;s spiritual. The peace that passeth understanding &#8212; that&#8217;s spiritual. Laying down your life for creation &#8212; that&#8217;s spiritual. Putting on the mind of Christ &#8212; that&#8217;s spiritual. Being led by the Spirit of God &#8212; that&#8217;s spiritual. Money can&#8217;t buy these things. The natural man can&#8217;t mimic these things. These are the true riches!
What is spiritual to you; what is spiritual to me is hearing not what tradition has says but what the spirit of truth is saying with in me.
Moses walked up on the mount and when he returned the shekinah glory of God shine on His face. When Moses went up that mountain of God; some of his friends followed so far; most of them sat at the bottom of the mountain.
Take Joseph a type of Christ; oh I have heard that so often in religious cycles and I believe it is true. But what about Benjamin?

 

[LJSGM]

TRUTH isn't based in OPINION though. Is it??

We're told how this works in the Bible. SIN PRODUCES DEATH - and that's the penalty of sin. There are 2 deaths. One of the body, the other is destruction/damnation of the soul eternally (annihilationism theories aside).

The things you keep speaking of in using scripture to support your belief ARE ABOUT THE GRACE GOD'S GIVEN US TO CHOOSE THIS IN LIFE.
IN LIFE we have opportunity BY GOD'S GRACE & MERCY to believe in Christ thru faith, or reject Christ's pardon and pay the penalty for our own sins.

Mercy increases HERE, not after death. This is what has been shown to you in well over 15 verses & parables/principles. Yet instead, you ignore all those to embrace what you WANT it to be.
It defeats the necessity of Salvation here in this life.

People don't get 2nd chances to try life again & do it God's way.
Hebrews 10 that was posted is proof that people DIE WITHOUT MERCY.
Romans 9 says God has mercy on whom He'll have mercy. And you're told directly that it's judgment time after you die.

You keep using verses outside their context to suit your opinions or hopes and it doesn't make for truth - it makes for twisted intepretation.
It's twisted BECUZ IN THE PROCESS YOU'RE UTTERLY REJECTING THE VERSES THAT SPELL OUT WHAT HAPPENS, and you have no biblical support that explains in any clear detail how and when this process of them getting out occurs!
NONE.

This is basic idolatry; refusing what you're given to embrace what you desire instead. Universalism was never accepted as a church doctrine, nor was it taught.
That should alarm you.

I'll have to stand with nadiine on this one

 

[Zecryphon]

Lets not go into human emotions and reasoning then. There are all sorts of doctrines of men that have been passed down through the years, and a lot of them are hardly found in the bible at all, and it's because they have been passed down from ear to ear, from leader to student without checking if the bible really says it (called indroctrination). Eternal suffering, I found is one of those doctrines. People think, "if most protestant churches believe it, then it must be true." and never go any further in their searches for truth, but to be honest, eternal suffering is hardly even there, there is little support for it in the bible. In fact, you will not found the two words "eternal suffering" together even once. Why should I believe something that isn't suppported by the bible and is unreasonable as well?

Hell is hardly unreasonable. But believe what you will, it makes no difference to me.