Heaven

[7trees]

If this is true that you have seen heaven could you please tell me what it looks like?

Heaven is wherever you are if you have God in your heart. The more that is true the more your soul is simply an extension of Paradise.

Heaven itself is vast. It is a real place and it is filled with natural life. Everything looks far more beautiful. It would be too much for a natural human mind to bear.

I will describe one small thing for you. The River of Life is crystal clear. It's bed is full of stones and sand and yet on closer examination those stones are gems and that sand is made of tiny gems. Each gem symbolises something spiritual.

You are also interested in the Virgin Mary some call the Theotokos. Mary is bodily in Heaven with her son. They eat heavenly food and sleep heavenly sleep. The appearance of Mary is not like any icon or painting. Mary is beautiful but I have not seen her real image in any painting.

The Assumption that is sometimes called the Dormition is an early Christian tradition without any explicit biblical support or any early apocryphal support- but later apocryphas elaborated on combining myth- often very stupid and unchristian myth with little known spiritual reality.

For the spiritual however there can be an implicit understanding from logical deduction based on revealed scripture- but not for the nonspiritual.

For the gifted there can be confirmation from the Holy Spirit in a way that is so superior to the 'prelast' or spiritual delusion common throughout Christianity.

In other words knowledge of these things comes by faith.

What can you tell me of Mary?

In grace, 7trees.

 

[AlexDTX]

I feel rather chagrined about making a thread speculating about Hell, especially since it is not our final destination. It's a bit like wondering about a country you don't intend to visit. I'd rather talk about Heaven and some of the things we hope we'll get to do or see.

Heaven is not our final destination, the Heaven and Earth are. Heaven was made for the angelic host, not humanity. The Earth was made for man.

For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else. (Isa_45:18 )
​

Granted there will be a new heaven and a new Earth, but we will live on Earth not in heaven.

Heaven in English means haven, that is a temporary abode. It is likely with our new glorified bodies that we will be able to travel between both worlds. Nonetheless, the Earth was created for man to dwell upon.

 

[Butch5]

I feel rather chagrined about making a thread speculating about Hell, especially since it is not our final destination. It's a bit like wondering about a country you don't intend to visit. I'd rather talk about Heaven and some of the things we hope we'll get to do or see.

Why do you think you'll do or see things in Heaven?

 

[Galatea]

Heaven is not our final destination, the Heaven and Earth are. Heaven was made for the angelic host, not humanity. The Earth was made for man.

For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else. (Isa_45:18 )
​

Granted there will be a new heaven and a new Earth, but we will live on Earth not in heaven.

Heaven in English means haven, that is a temporary abode. It is likely with our new glorified bodies that we will be able to travel between both worlds. Nonetheless, the Earth was created for man to dwell upon.

From what I understand, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. He is in Heaven currently. I know that there will one day be a new Heaven and a new Earth. I tnink that is true, we will be able to travel between both.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

No big surprise there - a lot of people have adopted that 'theory',
but it is not found in Scripture, nor in Y'SHUA nor HIS disciples nor what they ever taught.

It came basically, apparently, from outside (non-Biblical) sources and pagan peoples.
(many many centuries ago; and was enhanced, propagated, refined, and adulterated by various deceivers to keep people from reading the BIBLE)

From what I understand, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. He is in Heaven currently. I know that there will one day be a new Heaven and a new Earth. I tnink that is true, we will be able to travel between both.

 

[Galatea]

Why do you think you'll do or see things in Heaven?

Because He told us. Only, with not much detail.
I Corinthians 2:9. "Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him." Incidentally, my grandfather's favorite verse. He is 83, and looking forward to seeing and hearing the things God has prepared for him.

 

[Galatea]

No big surprise there - a lot of people have adopted that 'theory',
but it is not found in Scripture, nor in Y'SHUA nor HIS disciples nor what they ever taught.

It came basically, apparently, from outside (non-Biblical) sources and pagan peoples.
(many many centuries ago; and was enhanced, propagated, refined, and adulterated by various deceivers to keep people from reading the BIBLE)

Do you mean to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, is not in the Bible? It most surely is. Read II Corinthians chapter 5. It's all about how believers don't have to fear death. I don't think the Apostle Paul was looking at pagan texts for his source. II Corinthians 5:6-8 "Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight We are CONFIDENT, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord."

This is one way I can tell believers from nonbelievers- people who are saved LONG for Heaven. This is why there are so many hymns about it, it is Home. Later on in the chapter, Paul calls us ambassadors. Ambassadors are not citizens of the place they are in currently, but citizens of another place.

 

[Galatea]

Do you mean to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, is not in the Bible? It most surely is. Read II Corinthians chapter 5. It's all about how believers don't have to fear death. I don't think the Apostle Paul was looking at pagan texts for his source. II Corinthians 5:6-8 "Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight We are CONFIDENT, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord."

This is one way I can tell believers from nonbelievers- people who are saved LONG for Heaven. This is why there are so many hymns about it, it is Home. Later on in the chapter, Paul calls us ambassadors. Ambassadors are not citizens of the place they are in currently, but citizens of another place.

That was not meant to be a smiley face, it was a colon and parenthesis- but it's alright as it fits.

 

[LoveDivine]

Do you mean to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, is not in the Bible? It most surely is. Read II Corinthians chapter 5. It's all about how believers don't have to fear death. I don't think the Apostle Paul was looking at pagan texts for his source. II Corinthians 5:6-8 "Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight We are CONFIDENT, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord."

This is one way I can tell believers from nonbelievers- people who are saved LONG for Heaven. This is why there are so many hymns about it, it is Home. Later on in the chapter, Paul calls us ambassadors. Ambassadors are not citizens of the place they are in currently, but citizens of another place.

I agree. We are strangers in this world. The true Christian realizes he is in the world, but not of the world. I think we should view our time spent on earth as being our assignment or mission so to speak. We have a job to evangelize others. Our true happiness and rest will come in heaven where will be in the presence of God.

 

[Femina]

Is the New Jerusalem that comes down out of heaven for the new earth? Any ideas?

 

[Galatea]

I agree. We are strangers in this world. The true Christian realizes he is in the world, but not of the world. I think we should view our time spent on earth as being our assignment or mission so to speak. We have a job to evangelize others. Our true happiness and rest will come in heaven where will be in the presence of God.

Yes, I agree perfectly. Some of us are not so good about being about the Father's business, myself especially. Sometimes, I am scared about witnessing because I am afraid I will do more harm than good and thus hurt the cause of Christ. In high school, I had a friend who told me once that she wished she had what I had. It was my cue to witness to her and tell her what it is that I have. But I did not listen to the Holy Spirit's leading and kept silent. It has been a regret of mine ever since. I later found out from a mutual friend that she had gotten saved, I was glad, but so guilty that I had not witnessed to her when I had the opportunity.

 

[Galatea]

Is the New Jerusalem that comes down out of heaven for the new earth? Any ideas?

No ideas of my own, I want to be Berean as much as possible and reference the Bible.
Revelation 21:1-2 "And I saw a new Heaven and a new Earth: for the first Heaven and first Earth were passed away; and there were no more sea (you might like that bit, no more sea ). And I John, saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of Heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."
Revelation 21 and 22 tell us all about it. I am not being precise, and conflating Heaven with the New Earth, but where He is, we are. Like another poster said, we will be able to go between both in our glorified bodies.

 

[Butch5]

Because He told us. Only, with not much detail.
I Corinthians 2:9. "Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him." Incidentally, my grandfather's favorite verse. He is 83, and looking forward to seeing and hearing the things God has prepared for him.

That doesn't say anything about going to Heaven.

 

[Femina]

Heaven is wherever you are if you have God in your heart. The more that is true the more your soul is simply an extension of Paradise.

Heaven itself is vast. It is a real place and it is filled with natural life. Everything looks far more beautiful. It would be too much for a natural human mind to bear.

I will describe one small thing for you. The River of Life is crystal clear. It's bed is full of stones and sand and yet on closer examination those stones are gems and that sand is made of tiny gems. Each gem symbolises something spiritual.

You are also interested in the Virgin Mary some call the Theotokos. Mary is bodily in Heaven with her son. They eat heavenly food and sleep heavenly sleep. The appearance of Mary is not like any icon or painting. Mary is beautiful but I have not seen her real image in any painting.

The Assumption that is sometimes called the Dormition is an early Christian tradition without any explicit biblical support or any early apocryphal support- but later apocryphas elaborated on combining myth- often very stupid and unchristian myth with little known spiritual reality.

For the spiritual however there can be an implicit understanding from logical deduction based on revealed scripture- but not for the nonspiritual.

For the gifted there can be confirmation from the Holy Spirit in a way that is so superior to the 'prelast' or spiritual delusion common throughout Christianity.

In other words knowledge of these things comes by faith.

What can you tell me of Mary?

In grace, 7trees.

What can I tell you of Mary? Everything and nothing. I feel her love constantly. An icon can lead to contemplation and to communion. I love the beauty of my church and this plays a role in my world to surround my worship with as much beauty as I can. Like King David playing a harp I can come into God's presence through the beauty around me. The words of the Bible are all important for many Christians but they have less interest in non-rational things like beauty. The deeper level: communion with God—direct personal experience. You cannot critique communion with God and experience it at the same time. The great emphasis on intellectual understanding competes directly with us communing with God, true humility and un-knowing.
You speak of heaven as if you were there. Were you really there in some way or was this a vision in your head? What did the Queen of heaven look like?

 

[Galatea]

That doesn't say anything about going to Heaven.

You're right, it doesn't. I read the chapter again and it references spiritual truths which can not be discerned by the unconverted and is not necessarily talking about Heaven. If you read II Corinthians 5, you'll find out that we are to get a new, glorified body. "For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from Heaven; If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up in life."

We're going to have new bodies and not function as disembodied spirits. The Bible also says that we shall be like Him, meaning Christ. In His glorified body, He was able to see, talk, eat, etc.

 

[LoveDivine]

Yes, I agree perfectly. Some of us are not so good about being about the Father's business, myself especially. Sometimes, I am scared about witnessing because I am afraid I will do more harm than good and thus hurt the cause of Christ. In high school, I had a friend who told me once that she wished she had what I had. It was my cue to witness to her and tell her what it is that I have. But I did not listen to the Holy Spirit's leading and kept silent. It has been a regret of mine ever since. I later found out from a mutual friend that she had gotten saved, I was glad, but so guilty that I had not witnessed to her when I had the opportunity.

I understand that hesitation. Years ago, I realized that witnessing to others requires an act of faith. It can be intimidating to know what words to share or what approach to take. My view is that if we are sincere and genuinely want to share with others, we can ask for guidance and be willing to share as the Holy Spirit directs us. We can start to speak and he will give us what to say. The first few times I was in this situation I was very nervous. I was amazed afterward what came out of my mouth. I didn't falter and flop like I feared I would. Even if we only share the most simple of truths or scriptures, He can use our words to affect others.

 

[Galatea]

I understand that hesitation. Years ago, I realized that witnessing to others requires an act of faith. It can be intimidating to know what words to share or what approach to take. My view is that if we are sincere and genuinely want to share with others, we can ask for guidance and be willing to share as the Holy Spirit directs us. We can start to speak and he will give us what to say. The first few times I was in this situation I was very nervous. I was amazed afterward what came out of my mouth. I didn't falter and flop like I feared I would. Even if we only share the most simple of truths or scriptures, He can use our words to affect others.

Thanks for these words of encouragement. A lot of times, I feel like Peter- always putting my foot in my mouth. There is a verse, I can't find it now, about praying and asking God to put the right words in our mouths.

I am hesitant sometimes to share the gospel, because my life is not as good a witness as it should be. So, I am afraid to tell people about the Lord since I am not living as close to Him as I should be. I think this is the case of many silent Christians. Since I am ashamed of my life, I am hesitant to witness. This is not an excuse, though. I know I need to get closer to Him and be a witness in word and in deed. I just read the verse about how beautiful are the feet of the ones who share the gospel. So, thank you for having beautiful feet.

 

[LoveDivine]

Thanks for these words of encouragement. A lot of times, I feel like Peter- always putting my foot in my mouth. There is a verse, I can't find it now, about praying and asking God to put the right words in our mouths.

I am hesitant sometimes to share the gospel, because my life is not as good a witness as it should be. So, I am afraid to tell people about the Lord since I am not living as close to Him as I should be. I think this is the case of many silent Christians. Since I am ashamed of my life, I am hesitant to witness. This is not an excuse, though. I know I need to get closer to Him and be a witness in word and in deed. I just read the verse about how beautiful are the feet of the ones who share the gospel. So, thank you for having beautiful feet.

You are welcome

I think most of us are far from perfect in our walk with Christ. I'm not saying you should be hypocritical and ignore areas of your life that you know need improvement. I do know from experience though that your spiritual life blossoms and you feel more alive when you share your faith. Sometimes just hearing yourself say aloud that you believe in Christ as your Savior is powerful. When we confess our faith in Christ to others we experience a strength. This is why many Christians or churches have creeds and statements of faith that congregants recite. There is something so powerful about stating these beliefs.

I think one of the biggest tactics of the devil is to make us feel inadequate or unworthy to speak of our faith to others. If he can get us to withdraw and shrink back (for whatever reason) he can halt the spread of truth and cause us to doubt our own faith.

 

[Galatea]

You are welcome

I think most of us are far from perfect in our walk with Christ. I'm not saying you should be hypocritical and ignore areas of your life that you know need improvement. I do know from experience though that your spiritual life blossoms and you feel more alive when you share your faith. Sometimes just hearing yourself say aloud that you believe in Christ as your Savior is powerful. When we confess our faith in Christ to others we experience a strength. This is why many Christians or churches have creeds and statements of faith that congregants recite. There is something so powerful about stating these beliefs.

I think one of the biggest tactics of the devil is to make us feel inadequate or unworthy to speak of our faith to others. If he can get us to withdraw and shrink back (for whatever reason) he can halt the spread of truth and cause us to doubt our own faith.

You are right about that, I think it is good to say it aloud, reaffirming. I thought about the Westminster Confession the other day, "What is the chief end of man? To enjoy God and glorify Him forever." I didn't say it aloud, but I should have, it would have been an affirmation. I didn't think about it as Satan kind of curbing my witness. That's true, though, he can make us doubt whether or not we are doing the right thing. I have been thinking about getting out of the grubby cell of self, and this is another way- not to think about myself so much and think about God and what He wants.

 

[7trees]

What can I tell you of Mary? Everything and nothing. I feel her love constantly. An icon can lead to contemplation and to communion. I love the beauty of my church and this plays a role in my world to surround my worship with as much beauty as I can. Like King David playing a harp I can come into God's presence through the beauty around me. The words of the Bible are all important for many Christians but they have less interest in non-rational things like beauty. The deeper level: communion with God—direct personal experience. You cannot critique communion with God and experience it at the same time. The great emphasis on intellectual understanding competes directly with us communing with God, true humility and un-knowing.
You speak of heaven as if you were there. Were you really there in some way or was this a vision in your head? What did the Queen of heaven look like?

Yes, I understand. For you an image will focus your thoughts on the contemplation of divine things- or a beautiful stream or forest or flower will do the same. The quality and balance of something will generally decide its veracity.

Yes I went to Heaven itself in spirit so that it was a literal experience. I saw Jesus Christ and also Mary. Mary is obviously of Semitic origin and features and of course not 'Aryan' as on so many medieval icons. Mary is very beautiful as opposed to serene but plain. This also controverts a religious stereotype...

It is interesting however that not the traditional churches nor the post Reformation churches and not modern sects would accept the truths of heaven for the simple reason that spiritual reality always contradicts blind dogma, religious assumption and unfounded or partially founded tradition.

The more a believer fulfills the bible the more it will be quoted against them: The more they reveal Christ the more frightening they become to religious theorists: The closer they are to God the more believers will withdraw from them. So, how on earth is it possible you are comfortable in the Eastern Orthodox church? Tell me also about the heaven in your heart; you Femina, or anyone here so inclined.

Also, as you are new here you may find stories of miracles on CF edifying as in them Christ often reveals his power and grace- and what a qualitative change from the stress in the political threads!

Peace out