Heaven—What is the barebones,minimum requirement to get there?

[yeshuaslavejeff]

But I do believe that God reveals bits and bits of himself to each of his children as they grow in their relationship with him so when Christians come together and fellowship in his name a presence then they learn and benefit from one another...( 1 Corinthians 12:8 And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues.)

Good.... this is in line with all Scripture.

 

[Dave-W]

I am posting blind as I do not have time to read 9 pages of responses.

First off - the question itself betrays a mindset incompatible with salvation. Salvation is a covenant, like marriage.

What if you asked your future wife or husband what is the absolute barebones minimum requirement to stay married to you?
Put another way, how much shenanigans can I get away with, how bad do I have to hurt you, before you will divorce me. (or refuse to marry me in the first place)

 

[Truth Lover]

I'm not trying to say sin doesn't matter. But there are too many people posting in Christian Advice and elsewhere who are spending their lives trying to stop masturbating, and going into a downward spiral, when they ought to be focusing on Jesus and bringing his love to others. Jesus cared about things that truly hurt others, but not about the quest for an impossible personal purity.

Gal 5:16-24 says,"But I say, walk by the Spirit, and do not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh; for these are opposed to each other, to prevent you from doing what you would. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are plain: immorality, impurity, licentiousness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such there is no law. 24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires."
Paul is making a distinction between the moral law and the 613 Mosaic laws. He is saying the moral laws are binding but the Mosaic laws like circumcision are not.
If we surrender our life totally to Jesus, He will help us overcome temptations.
We are also required to obey the law of love for neighbors. This love is not just a feeling. It is love put into action in caring for the less fortunate as in Matthew 25:31-46. We will be punished for sins of omission if we do not care for others.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

I am posting blind as I do not have time to read 9 pages of responses.

First off - the question itself betrays a mindset incompatible with salvation. Salvation is a covenant, like marriage.

What if you asked your future wife or husband what is the absolute barebones minimum requirement to stay married to you?
Put another way, how much shenanigans can I get away with, how bad do I have to hurt you, before you will divorce me. (or refuse to marry me in the first place)

You misunderstood my intentions when I started this thread—-MY fault not yours— I was curious as to how much people here would add to Paul’s Gospel....1Cor 15

 

[hedrick]

Note that in the passage quoted from Gal, behavior is seen as fruit of the Spirit. My concern is that people are being pushed into impossible battles for perfection in a legal manner.

Both in vs 18 of this passage and in 1 Cor 6:12 (following the other sin list in Paul), Paul tries to guard against turning this into an end in itself. It's one thing to say that those who are in Christ won't do these things, but quite another to set up moral perfection as a goal and asking for Christ's help in achieving it.

The question is what's the goal and what's the means. The goal for Paul is to be in Christ, and show his love to others. That is going to show in behavior in the ways outlined in this passage. But it's too easy to turn that around and make moral achievement the major goal.

 

[Dave-W]

I was curious as to how much people here would add to Paul’s Gospel....1Cor 15

First off - it is not Paul's gospel. The entire gospel that Paul preached is found in the OT. So it predated him by a thousand years.

Second - the issue of adding requirements to the gospel for salvation is a misunderstanding of scripture. 90% of both OT and NT instruction is how to live AFTER salvation, not before.

 

[discipler7]

You misunderstood my intentions when I started this thread—-MY fault not yours— I was curious as to how much people here would add to Paul’s Gospel....1Cor 15

Paul's Gospel.? No, it's God's/Jesus's gospel. Paul's gospel may be wrong.
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MATTHEW.19: says, "Jesus Counsels the Rich Young Ruler
16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”

17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions."

 

[hedrick]

Mat 19 is an interesting text. How seriously do we take it? If taken at face value, eternal life depends upon obeying the 10 commandments, but Jesus offers something more. Few Christian interpreters take it that way.

 

[discipler7]

Mat 19 is an interesting text. How seriously do we take it? If taken at face value, eternal life depends upon obeying the 10 commandments, but Jesus offers something more. Few Christian interpreters take it that way.

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JOHN.8:58/EXODUS.3:14 say that it was the Lord/God Jesus Christ who gave the 10 Commandments and the rest of the 603 commandments to Moses and the Jews. Later, this same Jesus died on the Cross to save the world.

JOHN.1:1 says that Jesus Christ aka the Word is and was God, ie was God in the flesh(JOHN.1:14, 1TIMOTHY.3:16). Having faith in Jesus Christ is the same as having faith in the Word or Law or commandments. Both are needed for salvation.(REVELATION.22:12-15) Only difference is that for Gentile Christians, they only have to keep the non-burdensome parts of Moses Law, as per ACTS.15:24-29.

 

[Truth Lover]

Note that in the passage quoted from Gal, behavior is seen as fruit of the Spirit. My concern is that people are being pushed into impossible battles for perfection in a legal manner.

Both in vs 18 of this passage and in 1 Cor 6:12 (following the other sin list in Paul), Paul tries to guard against turning this into an end in itself. It's one thing to say that those who are in Christ won't do these things, but quite another to set up moral perfection as a goal and asking for Christ's help in achieving it.

The question is what's the goal and what's the means. The goal for Paul is to be in Christ, and show his love to others. That is going to show in behavior in the ways outlined in this passage. But it's too easy to turn that around and make moral achievement the major goal.

I do not want holiness just because God commands it, but mostly because I love God with all my heart and I want to please Him. A by-product of this is that I am living a sane, healthy life and my relationships with others are greatly improved. God commands what is best for us because He loves us. I cannot know, love and serve God if I am in rebellion against Him. I know I cannot be holy without God's help. He does require me to cooperate with Him in the process of sanctification. If you think sanctification is optional, read these passages:

In Matt 5:48, Jesus was preaching that we must love one another. He summarizes this by saying, "You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

2 Peter 1:3-11 "His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, 4 by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, that through these you may escape from the corruption that is in the world because of passion, and become partakers of the divine nature.[c] 5 For this very reason make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, 6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, 7 and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For whoever lacks these things is blind and shortsighted and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. 10 Therefore, brethren, be the more zealous to confirm your call and election, for if you do this you will never fall; 11 so there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ." (Emphasis mine.)

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

First off - it is not Paul's gospel. The entire gospel that Paul preached is found in the OT. So it predated him by a thousand years.

Second - the issue of adding requirements to the gospel for salvation is a misunderstanding of scripture. 90% of both OT and NT instruction is how to live AFTER salvation, not before.

I refer to it as “ Paul’s Gospel” because he did— consistently. He generally says “ MY “ Gospel. I know it sounds weird,and I never noticed it until it was showed to me.

I agree with your second part. As long as people know that these instructions on how to live a good,godly life do not save or keep you saved.Salvation is a gift obtainable only by faith in the Shed Blood of Christ— plus nothing.The other things will follow salvation. God bless

 

[discipler7]

Salvation is a gift obtainable only by faith in the Shed Blood of Christ— plus nothing.

That's not completely true.
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JOHN.6: =
43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father. 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”

52 The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?”

53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh AND drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”
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MATTHEW.4:4 = 4 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’”
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JOHN.1: = 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ...

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

That's not completely true.
.
JOHN.6: =
43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father. 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”

52 The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?”

53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh AND drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”
.
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MATTHEW.4:4 = 4 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’”
.
.
JOHN.1: = 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ...

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Are you saying one is lost if they have not undertaken Communion?

 

[discipler7]

Salvation is a gift obtainable only by faith in the Shed Blood of Christ— plus nothing.

Are you saying one is lost if they have not undertaken Communion?

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I am saying that the Holy Communion requires Christians to eat the bread(= flesh of Christ) PLUS drink the wine(= blood of Christ).

One may be lost if he/she does not eat the bread of life or flesh of Christ or live by every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

1COR.5: = 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

.
I am saying that the Holy Communion requires Christians to eat the bread(= flesh of Christ) PLUS drink the wine(= blood of Christ).

One may be lost if he/she does not eat the bread of life or flesh of Christ or live by every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

1COR.5: = 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

How would that match up with the Gospel thAt Paul said would save if believed....did he forget to mention that stuff in 1 cor 15 ?

 

[mmksparbud]

Bare bones---nothing but total heart commitment.

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Bare bones---nothing but total heart commitment.

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

As much as I would love to,I fall way short on both counts....how about you? Makes me see I need tons of Grace and a loving Savior! I found both!

 

[discipler7]

How would that match up with the Gospel thAt Paul said would save if believed....did he forget to mention that stuff in 1 cor 15 ?

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Whatever Paul mentioned should match up with God's/Christ's gospel, not the other way round.

Paul was only appointed as the apostle to the Gentiles, as a replacement for Judas Iscariot, after the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ. Paul was not the only apostle of Christ. In fact, Paul likely never heard from Jesus Christ in the flesh, unlike the other 11 apostles and 108 disciples of Christ who spent about 3 years with Christ.

Which apostle did Jesus Christ love the most.?

 

[discipler7]

Bare bones---nothing but total heart commitment.

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

.

As much as I would love to,I fall way short on both counts....how about you? Makes me see I need tons of Grace and a loving Savior! I found both!

Are you saying that you lack in your love for God and for your neighbours/friends.?

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

.
Whatever Paul mentioned should match up with God's/Christ's gospel, not the other way round.

Paul was only appointed as the apostle to the Gentiles, as a replacement for Judas Iscariot, after the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ. Paul was not the only apostle of Christ. In fact, Paul likely never heard from Jesus Christ in the flesh, unlike the other 11 apostles and 108 disciples of Christ who spent about 3 years with Christ.

Which apostle did Jesus Christ love the most.?

Mattius was chosen by the disciples to replace Judas.He was never heard from again biblically speaking.Paul was chosen by God, and well,the rest is history. Paul spent three years with Jesus,just like the disciples ,except with Paul it was one- on- one in the desert.
Jesus loved John . “ the disciple Jesus loved”. Don’t think it says He loved him the most, but He May have. Is that important to you?

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

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Are you saying that you lack in your love for God and for your neighbours/friends.?

It improves the longer I live, but “with ALL “ my heart? No , how about you?