Healing is NOT in the atonement

[Tenebrae]

There is absolutely no question that it was a messenger "of satan", the scripture is positively clear about that. So knowing the finer points of what the word "thorn" means is absolutely superfluous.

Why, because it might not support your POV

No it isnt clear after reading the greek

the way you put 2+2 together and get five is just unique

 

[probinson]

Why, because it might not support your POV

No it isnt clear after reading the greek

the way you put 2+2 together and get five is just unique

The point that ToL said was clear is that whatever it was, it was from Satan. Surely you don't dispute this?

Further, WE are told in scripture that WE are to resist the devil and he will flee from us.

The way you ignore the blatantly obvious is just unique.

 

[Tenebrae]

The point that ToL said was clear is that whatever it was, it was from Satan. Surely you don't dispute this?

Further, WE are told in scripture that WE are to resist the devil and he will flee from us.

The way you ignore the blatantly obvious is just unique.

And then we get into semantics

 

[probinson]

And then we get into semantics

How on earth is this construed as "semantics"? Do you even know what semantics is, 'cause this ain't it.

Whatever Paul's thorn was, it was FROM SATAN

That's quite clear. It's not a matter of semantics. You can't rationalize it away in the greek. It is clearly what the scripture says.

 

[TreeOfLife]

Why, because it might not support your POV

No it isnt clear after reading the greek

the way you put 2+2 together and get five is just unique.

2 Cor 12:7
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure.
NKJV

OK, maybe I can't add as well as I should be able to, but I guarantee you I can read.

And you can keep your insults to yourself. I don't need that and I certainly don't have to put up with it.

 

[Tenebrae]

2 Cor 12:7
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure.
NKJV

OK, maybe I can't add as well as I should be able to, but I guarantee you I can read.

And you can keep your insults to yourself. I don't need that and I certainly don't have to put up with it.

So its ok for you to give insults but you cant hack it when someone bites back?why does that not surprise me

a thorn in the flesh could refer to a physical ailment if you take the time to read the greek, and no arguement that it was from satan however there is no confirmation that his thorn wasnt an illness

 

[TreeOfLife]

So its ok for you to give insults but you cant hack it when someone bites back?why does that not surprise me

a thorn in the flesh could refer to a physical ailment if you take the time to read the greek, and no arguement that it was from satan however there is no confirmation that his thorn wasnt an illness

And just as I stated clearly before, who cares what the thorn was? Where it came from is the most important part of that text.

I am glad to see that you finally admit that you were wrong about where it came from though. Perhaps there is hope of civil discussion yet!

 

[Tenebrae]

And just as I stated clearly before, who cares what the thorn was? Where it came from is the most important part of that text.

I am glad to see that you finally admit that you were wrong about where it came from though. Perhaps there is hope of civil discussion yet!

I never admited anything, that said I never said where Pauls thorn came from I was arguing the point for those of you who say that pauls thorn wasnt a physical ailment

I sugest you read my posts properly, because I dont enjoy chatting with people who base their replies on what they thought I said

Respect my right to have a differing opinion, as I will endeavour to do for you, and well will get on fine.

 

[TreeOfLife]

I never admited anything, that said I never said where Pauls thorn came from I was arguing the point for those of you who say that pauls thorn wasnt a physical ailment

I sugest you read my posts properly, because I dont enjoy chatting with people who base their replies on what they thought I said

Respect my right to have a differing opinion, as I will endeavour to do for you, and well will get on fine.

I beg to differ. You clearly stated that it was not clear where the thorn came from. Then you stated that it was clear it was from satan.

If you are not going to at least be honest, I personally don't care whether we "get on fine" or not. I may not care either way.

 

[Christina M]

Jeremiah 29:11
For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope.





GOD IS GOOD!!!

 

[Tenebrae]

I beg to differ. You clearly stated that it was not clear where the thorn came from. Then you stated that it was clear it was from satan.

If you are not going to at least be honest, I personally don't care whether we "get on fine" or not. I may not care either way.

beg all you like

I was arguing what Pauls thorn was perhaps I misread pete in post number . However I read him as saying that the thorn was a messenger of satan, as I seem to recall some in this forum arguing more than once, "that paul as oppressed by an evil spirit, not a physical ailment" I was pointing out that if one actually takes time to read the original language it is not by any means clear what pauls thorn was

Never once did I say it wasnt from satan, and if arguing semantics and based on what you though you read makes you feel good about yourself and that you're wining the arguement, go right ahead.......

I on the other hand have more productive ways of spending my time, so will say to you adieu

 

[Tenebrae]

I beg to differ. You clearly stated that it was not clear where the thorn came from. Then you stated that it was clear it was from satan.

If you are not going to at least be honest, I personally don't care whether we "get on fine" or not. I may not care either way.

beg all you like

I was arguing what Pauls thorn was perhaps I misread pete in post number 35. However I read him as saying that the thorn was a messenger of satan, (as in eveil spirit, not physical ailment) and Pete if I misread or misintepreted that, my apologies to you. However as I seem to recall some in this forum arguing more than once, "that paul as oppressed by an evil spirit, not a physical ailment" I was pointing out that if one actually takes time to read the original language it is not by any means clear what pauls thorn was

Never once did I say it wasnt from satan, and if arguing semantics and based on what you though you read makes you feel good about yourself and that you're wining the arguement, go right ahead.......

I on the other hand have more productive ways of spending my time, so will say to you adieu

 

[psalms 91]

It is starting to sound lkike another section of cf i was asked to go to a while ago

 

[TreeOfLife]

beg all you like

I was arguing what Pauls thorn was perhaps I misread pete in post number 35. However I read him as saying that the thorn was a messenger of satan, (as in eveil spirit, not physical ailment) and Pete if I misread or misintepreted that, my apologies to you. However as I seem to recall some in this forum arguing more than once, "that paul as oppressed by an evil spirit, not a physical ailment" I was pointing out that if one actually takes time to read the original language it is not by any means clear what pauls thorn was

Never once did I say it wasnt from satan, and if arguing semantics and based on what you though you read makes you feel good about yourself and that you're wining the arguement, go right ahead.......

I on the other hand have more productive ways of spending my time, so will say to you adieu

Bye.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Whatever Paul's thorn was, it was FROM SATAN
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Actually.. the bible didn't say the source.... so its just THEORY. In 2 Corinthians 12, verse 10, Paul lists types of thorns and they are in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties.

 

[JimB]

Whatever Paul's thorn was, it was FROM SATAN

Well, we will cross swords on this. But …

Satan can do nothing that God does not allow/permit. Take the first chapter of Job for example.

Here is the text of the “thorn”:

7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. 8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. 9 And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ’s sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong. 1 Cor. 12
​

Nowhere does it say that the thorn was “from Satan”. A case could be made that it was sent by God (just as scripture says that “the Lord sent an evil spirit” upon Saul - But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him (1 Sam. 16.14).

In fact, why would Paul “plead with the Lord” to remove the minister of Satan (or spirit of infirmity) if it was sent by the devil? All he would have had to do was resist it and it would flee, rebuke it, take authority over it. He would not ask the Lord to remove something, for something to depart from him, if the Lord had not placed it there.

Anhow, that’s one way to look at it. But I don’t think we will ever work out what the thron was. The lesson is “grace is sufficient” not the thorn.

Sincerely,
~I. B. Dogg

 

[TreeOfLife]

Actually.. the bible didn't say the source.... so its just THEORY. In 2 Corinthians 12, verse 10, Paul lists types of thorns and they are in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties.

2 Cor 12:7
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure.
NKJV


Really?

 

[JimfromOhio]

2 Cor 12:7
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure.
NKJV


Really?

Did Paul knew it was from Satan as Job knew whether God punished Job or Satan inflicted him?

Who really knows what is God doing?

 

[TreeOfLife]

Did Paul knew it was from Satan as Job knew whether God punished Job or Satan inflicted him?

Who really knows what is God doing?

You are then willing to question the bible in order to sustain your own personal idea?

Are you really?

 

[JimfromOhio]

You are then willing to question the bible in order to sustain your own personal idea?

Are you really?

I am not questioning the Bible. Paul as a human being thought Satan was harming him when he does not really know. He was assuming.

When Paul heard what God said in verse 9, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness."

Paul responded with an understanding what God is saying so Paul wrote: "Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me. That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

Some of the sources are from Satan and some are NOT.