Head Coverings

[Gxg (G²)]

The top Bukharian one was made by Larissa Eidlina, she makes them professionally at designkippah.com

Will have to look them up and investigate further...

I tried looking for a Yemeni one on nearly all Judaica sites and never found one lol

Sorry to hear...may have to just go to the country directly and get one from there.

Turban cloths are generally just solid coloured, you might get the embroidered patches on the ends or striped ends like the afghan lungee, they make designer patterened ones as well, but usually they just vary in fabric. Also the style of how you wrap it makes a big difference! Speaking of desi hats, the sindhi cap is quite nice, what the guy with the long hair is wearing. Some of them are heavily embroidered with bits of mirror etc in the hat, I have one myself which I got from Pakistan.

Had a similar hat given to me by the Messianic Jewish Rabbi of my fellowship..though as I have long hair myself (i.e. dreadlocks), its difficult to fit all of my hair in one and I was hoping to find one that could suit me. If it was in regards to finding hats based in Jewish culture that could fit long hair like dreadlocks, the closest ones that come to mind are those worn by Ethopian Jews:

The Rabbi of my fellowship has actually bought/worn one of those during the Passover Sedars we have yearly--and though were were taken aback by it (as most assume all head coverings for Jews are the same), I was very glad for his being intentional in displaying the great variety of headcoverings one can wear whenever it comes to practicing one's faith. For others often think the only kind of coverings one can wear that are authentically Jewish are those worn by others from European Jewish ancestry while never seeing the sheer diversity that is within Jewish culture. Others are often unaware of how deeply connected the Ethopian culture is to ancient Judaism---and some of this was discussed more in-depth in a thread entitled Ethopian Orthodoxy vs Eastern Orthodoxy: Which one's closer to 1st Century Judaism?. As it concerns the style of head coverings they have, I'd love to get one head covering from the Ethopian side myself and have been torn about it at times, though the rabbi of my fellowship has often noted how not having one doesn't make one less of a disciple of the Lord....or any less connected to Jewish culture if they don't have a hat of a certain kind.​

To see others who may be Jewish and yet wear head coverings of differing varities has been a joy for me to discover--and I'm glad for others noted so as well.​

Having dreadlocks myself, I've often simply opted for wearing the traditional Tams/Kunnis that are within my own culture...and in fellowships where there are West Indian Jewish believers (or converts from West Indian backgrounds) and others with dreads, the scarfs/tams they wear around their heads are astounding and I'm always amazed at how they can fit all of that hair in one spot:​

Trying to find things such as Tams or a kufis (which most with Dreadlocks wear) and discover one that has Semitic designs has been a challenge...but I've worn tams/kufis I've had to fellowship many times before. Some are oftens surprised to see how many Jews have worn head coverings from Jamaican culture or West Indian backgrounds, but the cultural connections run deep. Some of this I tried to discuss more in-depth elsewhere in a thread entitled Reggae Righteousness: Seeing Ones that are both Messianic Jewish & Rastas for Christ?

Also would like to say, I think it's beautiful when women loosely drap a scarf around their head. There are some beautiful scarves you see around

Agreed 100%

 

[Gxg (G²)]

My vice is buying sterling besamim boxes. I generally
buy them in Mea Shearim because you get the best
prices. Every time I go I have to pick up a couple of
them. It's an expensive hobby, but I love them. I
think I have over a hundred by now.

Often times, the things worth investment can be the most addicting

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I usually wear hats or smaller handkerchief style scarves with my hair up. longer scarves/veils are looked at as an opressive/Muslim thing to do around here, and it's just easier fitting in with more trendy styles than constantly try to explain what I am up to..

Sometimes, it gets really bothersome whenever people get hung up over others looking akin to something they see in a culture (or religion) that may have problems. Wiccans and Pagans drink coffee at Starbucks and wear shoes, as well as clothing styles that may be designed to be environmentally considerate....but by no means do they own the market on such things, nor does it mean others who wear similar clothing styles are in any way the same as them. The same goes with a myriad of other things, be it with Christians wearing Eastern robes/specific kinds of shoes as Tibetan monks do or with disciples wearing saris as the women do in Indian. A clothing style is not something which can be dominated by one religion alone...and with others trying to demean others as Muslim for having longer scarves/veils, I tend to be of the mindset that they can respecfully get over it. For if they wish to live in an cultural ghetto/not have their own horizons broaden as to what is really out there, that's sad...but its their choice.

Had a conversation recently when it came to the subject of believers not judging one another as Paul noted in Romans 14-15...and on the issue, we were discussing how often many churches have been legalistic /condeming toward others if they did things such as wearing pants or make-up....for in their interpretation of passages such as I Timothy 2 and I Peter 3, they felt that such outward adornment was vain. Of course, such a view leaves out a host of other issues such as how many times make-up/clothing were not to be condemned in the slightest..and as the conversation went on, the point got brought up that many churches preaching against "legalism" would be JUST as legalistic/oppressive themselves if they saw a woman come in wearing a sari---or a long scarf/veil. One of the pastors even assumed that only Muslims would wear veils and scarfs---but my mindset was that people only discuss from what they know....and education is very much something in need so as to not make others feel like they must "blend in" with others who refuse to show the same courtesy/respect they demand when others question their own style of dress. Of course there's the reality of how often people have to "get along just to get along"---but I wonder if it should be tolerated as much as others say....for even if it is difficult to constantly explain, there were many things we accept today that started out as such. People questioned for a good bit because they weren't used to something...but in time, as the awareness grew, so did the acceptance of what was previously rejected/viewed with suspicion.

With scarfs and long veils, as it stands, many things already done in Islam were never originating within Islam alone when it comes to the clothing styles since much of it was already practiced by Eastern Christians long before--and I've been very glad for others that've tried to aid others in realizing the dangers of guilt-by-association mindsets ( as discussed elsewhere).

Just my two cents

 

[Desert Rose]

OK OK I'll confess... lamb stew... with lentils. Oy vavoy!
Love the scarf tying lessons. I've spent time in front of the mirror with my scarves.
There is a wonderful hat shop in the Old City Jerusalem - Esther's Hats that I love. Esther makes scarf tying so easy. I spend too much money there!

you and chava are ladies with classy shopping habits. I love to buy street food

 

[anisavta]

Oh... and that too!!

 

[MessianicMommy]

Easy G, it's not as easy as that here. For one thing, the Turkish minority here is trying to make inroads to change the culture here (this is of course only one example - the other being the push for minarets, Islamic schooling in public schools, push to make girls still bend to shariah related modesty in school, violence against daughters who become secular (many, many incidences), FGM, "fake virginity", forced marriages (illegal here), refusal to sing the national anthem, and shariah banking). And without any provocation, we have Prime Minister Erdogan (Turkey) coming to Germany off and on stirring things up. (just one example here)

There are laws about whether head coverings are allowed at school (most states saying it's now not allowed) and a debate going up for talks about whether or not to take the French/Italian stance of banning niqab/burkas or all coverings incl. hijabs and scarves altogether. The only thing that will be excluded from that law would be wigs and the attire of a Nun. I'm not becoming a nun any time soon...

Germany is largely a secular *Christian* country. There is no separation of church and state. All state holidays are church holidays, unless explicitly government holidays (Reunification day on Oct 3). They may vary a little by state, but are generally dictated by whether or not an area is more protestant than catholic, or vice versa. Most the practices here favor the more secular Christian P.O.V. (or athiest/agnostic) rather than Jewish and Muslim P.O.V. Putting that into perspective, there are rather good relations between the churches and the Jewish community, though it's a bit tense right now with the Messianic Jewish community, as teeny tiny as it is. (40 groups - congregations with a building and official house-congregations; most being Russian speaking, spread out in Germany).

Then you have the fact we live in a rather non-Jewish area (South, North, East and West of several), where the largest minority is Turkish, with animosity of those Turks to the Jewish community, German community, and Americans - you really don't want to stick out like a sore thumb and become a target. When it comes to the Turkish community, they like well defined lines of who does and doesn't belong. I don't have a problem with that, and respect that line. I also respect their rules when we shop in their stores. I harbor no animosity toward their culture or their beliefs. I just know there is a very delicate balance between what is considered male/female roles, modest/immodest, and also the tensions with politics and integration into German culture. I'd sooner not step in the doodoo. I much prefer blending in and being inconspicuous as possible..

Outside of the Muslim community, the only women I've seen wearing veilings (not scarves) of any kind are the Russian Orthodox or the very much older (60-90yr old) ladies that go to the local Catholic church on the holidays. I have not seen anyone going to any of the frei-gemeinde or the state run congregations that are protestant wearing headcoverings. Most the Mennonites here don't cover either.

The standard here with the local (hour and 3 hour away from us) Jewish community, is to wear wigs. While I respect that, I'm not a wig person, and that's definitely not the standard I grew up with for covering one's hair.


As far as German culture goes - headscarves are considered oppressive, and a model of patriarchal society that wants women uneducated, unrepresented, hidden away, possibly abused, not provided for like the men and boys, and pregnant all the time.


As far as blending in/Opsec is concerned, here are a few Old Armed Forces News commercials that explain this concept:

AFN Commercial - Don't Be A Target For Terrorists - YouTube
AFN Commercial - Host Country Street Smarts - YouTube
AFN Commercial - Avoid Attention - YouTube
Avoid Attracting Attention - YouTube

I may no longer be a military dependent, but once you live with this lifestyle, it sticks with you. After all the threats we have had against the very small (and getting much smaller) American minority here in Germany, and the growing threat to the Jewish community here- it only makes sense to be very inconspicuous and not very memorable. Every couple weeks we get a new "warning" issued direct from the Embassy. I have a fine line to walk both as an American, but also as a legal alien resident. I am expected to blend in, speak German and do German things. Not American things. Once you are here and marry a German (as I did) you are supposed to assimilate. I do, within reason. I do not, where it does not agree with our religious / moral conscience.

I cover, and that's that. It's not up for debate for people outside my marriage. It's what I do, and what my husband agrees to.

Hope that clears the air a bit. The culture is vastly different here on many things, but much the same on others. Shalom.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Easy G, it's not as easy as that here. For one thing, the Turkish minority here is trying to make inroads to change the culture here (this is of course only one example - the other being the push for minarets, Islamic schooling in public schools, push to make girls still bend to shariah related modesty in school, violence against daughters who become secular (many, many incidences), FGM, "fake virginity", forced marriages (illegal here), refusal to sing the national anthem, and shariah banking). And without any provocation, we have Prime Minister Erdogan (Turkey) coming to Germany off and on stirring things up. (just one example here)
.

Shalom, MM

I understand the dynamics of such are not necessarily the same and I was never assuming such. Of course, within the U.S, there are similar dynamics as it concerns those who may be from an Islamic background trying to make inroads here when it comes to certain days they wish to have prayer/certain privelages on...and the same with dress styles in the schools that they would like allowed alongside other practices that have been controversial when it comes to Muslim Civil Rights. Of course, much of it in the U.S is often in response to the spike in anti-Muslim bigotry over the years when it comes to things including Koran burnings, restrictions on mosque construction, hate crimes, hate speech, and other forms of discrimination toward those who are of an Islamic background....and many have noted that giving more consideration to the rights of Muslims is akin to what's happening in Europe when it comes to the belief that Islamic groups are seeking to change cultures from the inside out gradually. For reference, on some of the things noted:

• The Much Exaggerated Death of Europe. - First Things
• Godless Europe?
  
• The PJ Tatler » Sharia Law in the United States
• American Muslim Perspective
• Federal Appeals Court Considers Sharia Law - ABC News
• Sharia Law and the U.S. Constitution | The American Catholic
• Muslims For A Safe America » Should American Muslims Work ...
• Senate Looks at the State of Muslim Civil Rights in the U.S. | C-SPAN
• Muslim women in America: the challenge of Islamic identity today - Google Books Result

There are laws about whether head coverings are allowed at school (most states saying it's now not allowed) and a debate going up for talks about whether or not to take the French/Italian stance of banning niqab/burkas or all coverings incl. hijabs and scarves altogether.

I'm aware of how it is the case within places like France or Italy where banning burkas and niquabs are very much controversial. Some of this was discussed elsewhere in #35 and #53 ( on how even Barbie Dolls have been slammed in the U.S due to head coverings), as seen here:

As much as people may complain about the amount of "skin" that others display in our culture, I was shocked to see how the French have gotten aggressive toward Muslim girls wearing modest costumes to public swimming pools. Even more shocking is seeing how the mindset is seemingly spreading in European nations, as an Italian city now plans to ban it completely......and yet, as mentioned earlier, many of the ways they dress are actually more similar to the way women dressed in Biblical times.

​

Of course, it is a bit different in the U.S. For as noted best elsewhere, Islamic dress has been less of an issue in the United States, where Muslim communities tend to be more assimilated than in Europe. ..and that might be because European countries are, on the whole, more homogeneous than the U.S. and seem to have had a harder time accommodating newcomers from different cultures.) Nonetheless, similar issues have come up in the U.S. In 2003, a judge ruled that a Muslim woman in Florida did not have the right to cover her face with a veil for her driver's license photo. In this story, the Muslim woman said her religious rights were being violated by requiring her to remove her veil for her driver's license photo. ..and that rulling amongst others has caused ALOT of battles to occur when it comes to the right for women to wear veils within the U.S. For reference:

• Muslim Woman in Florida Sues to Wear Veil for Driver's License
• Discrimination Against Muslim Women - Fact Sheet | American Civil ...
• 
  ACLU Defense of Freedom of Religious Practice ... - ACLU of Florida

Although not at the point where nearly all places within the U.S ban wearing a veil or a headcovering such as a scarf, its by no means a small issue within U.S culture since many women doing so publically have had to deal with alot of grief over the issue.

The only thing that will be excluded from that law would be wigs and the attire of a Nun. I'm not becoming a nun any time soon...

Never figured as much with what it was that you mentioned, though I would not be shocked if you did so since there are plenty of Hebrew Catholics in existence that are cool with being Messianic Nuns

Germany is largely a secular *Christian* country.

Got ya...as the U.S. is largely secular and (as many have noted) a "Post-Christian" country--and of course, there are plenty who've noted that the U.S was never a "Christian" nation to begin with. For Others who advocate that the U.S was never a Christian Nation, I have to agree with them to a significant degree since it seems there were many "CHristian" aspects in the forms of principals that it was founded upon--but as it concerns practicing Chrisitanity/living it out, I don't think anyone could argue such honestly when seeing what was really lived out. In many ways, they're similar to Germany in that it may be "CHristian" but in name only. Others such as Gregory Boyd have done an amazing job of discussing the issue in-depth

Granted, when it comes to the issue of separation of Church and State, many of the things others say about that are often fabricated when it comes to trying to claim that the U.S is/has always been a secular nation---as the concept behind the phrase coined by Jefferson was never meant to say that others of religious backgrounds couldn't shape government...and many aren't even aware of what the U.S Constitution even says. Moreover, it'd be hard for everyone to escape the numerous references we have to God in the Laws--even though many attempts (both failed and successful) have been made, from seeking to remove the 10 commandments to having any mention of "god" removed from anything to do with local, state or federal government....fFrom trying to remove the motto "In God We Trust" from our money and buildings, to trying to remove "Under God" from the pledge of Allegiance.. But what many others may not know is that our country was founded as a Theistic one..and the forefathers of the U.S did not want a purely secular government. For if they did, then their wording of the Declaration of Independence would be wrong.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness
​

There is no separation of church and state. All state holidays are church holidays, unless explicitly government holidays (Reunification day on Oct 3). They may vary a little by state, but are generally dictated by whether or not an area is more protestant than catholic, or vice versa. Most the practices here favor the more secular Christian P.O.V. (or
athiest/agnostic) rather than Jewish and Muslim P.O.V. Putting that into perspective, there are rather good relations between the churches and the Jewish community, though it's a bit tense right now with the Messianic Jewish community, as teeny tiny as it is. (40 groups - congregations with a building and official house-congregations; most being Russian speaking, spread out in Germany).


hh

Thankful that the relations between the Jewish community and churches are doing good...and Thank you for alerting to the issue of where Messianic Jews may still be struggling

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Then you have the fact we live in a rather non-Jewish area (South, North, East and West of several), where the largest minority is Turkish, with animosity of those Turks to the Jewish community, German community, and Americans - you really don't want to stick out like a sore thumb and become a target. When it comes to the Turkish community, they like well defined lines of who does and doesn't belong. I don't have a problem with that, and respect that line. I also respect their rules when we shop in their stores. I harbor no animosity toward their culture or their beliefs. I just know there is a very delicate balance between what is considered male/female roles, modest/immodest, and also the tensions with politics and integration into German culture. I'd sooner not step in the doodoo. I much prefer blending in and being inconspicuous as possible..
.

Of course..and I more than understand that. The same dynamics occur within the U.S when it comes to communities where certain minorities may exercise more influence and one exercises caution when on another's "turf." The Messianic Jewish rabbi of my fellowship has experienced thsi many times when he has gone shopping in the stores of others who come from an Eastern background ..and who may be either Arabic or from an Islamic background. He doesn't reveal his identity as a Jew, though he loves fellowshipping with them/interaction. Moreover, if others wish to interact with their communities, he helps others become educated on what to expect and how to interact when it comes to the things they may think are either modest or not modest..what things one needs to assimilate on and what things others need to seperate on, as those minority communities are already dealing with battles from the larger majority on how to fit in and yet retain their distinctivness while also being in competition with others who may be more established.

I'm glad for all of the times we've gone to communities/areas of differing kinds and learned how to adpat to other cultures..

Outside of the Muslim community, the only women I've seen wearing veilings (not scarves) of any kind are the Russian Orthodox or the very much older (60-90yr old) ladies that go to the local Catholic church on the holidays. I have not seen anyone going to any of the frei-gemeinde or the state run congregations that are protestant wearing headcoverings. Most the Mennonites here don't cover either.

Got ya.

Some of its actually interesting, as it concerns Russian Orthodox wearing headscarfs and not any Russians (to my knowledge of what you wrote) who may be involved in other churches. For a project I had to do, I was blessed to interview someone from another culture...and as my informat was from Russia, it was interesting to hear some of his experiences with the churches he grew up in (more here and also shared here on Russian cultural norms I found out in the process). For although he didn't grow up Russian Orthodox, he saw many of the same things they did in the Baptist churches he went to. And when it came to the issue of head-coverings, the reasons they were done were for RADICALLY different reasons than many. For a brief excerpt of our interview, as his code-name is Mat V:

Brother Mat V: I was going to a Baptist church in Russia. Now I go usually on mornings to North Metro church. Its on Cobb Parkway.

G: So, is that different going to church here as opposed to where it was that you grew up in Russia?
​

Brother Mat V: Well, in Russia, in Baptist Churches they’re very conservative. People don’t know that in Russia Baptist churches are conservative. Like, people think “Oh, that’s our church!!!”..but if you compare it to other countries, not only America. Like I’ve been to church in England and Baptist churches there are little more like Russian Baptist. But its a lot more conservative.

G: To be clear I understand what you’re saying, what do you mean by “conservative”? Do you mean people are more reserved?
​

Brother Mat V: Like in my old church, we’d have 3 sermons every service. You have one big sermon and then 2 or 3 different sermons. People think that when you go to church, you should dress different. Like, you can wear shirts when you go out but not when you go to church. And it depends on the CHURCH. IN some places, you don’t even wear shirt..but are supposed to wear long sleeve. But I stayed at one Baptist church for 10yrs and then I moved to another one more liberal. Like at my old church, people didn’t believe in dating. They believed in courting more. Also, mostly women would wear coverings on their heads when they pray..especially prayer. When they go to the store, they don’t have to wear them. And music is kind of different. Not so many drums. It depends on the church OR the city.

G: That’s interesting hearing about what you said about Baptist churches there as opposed to here in the U.S. Many Baptist churches . Many here don’t even advocate wearing coverings…
​

Brother Mat V: Well, in Russian churches, they were isolated for a long time and in the Soviet Union they had to come up with ways to protect themselves from infiltration from the outside because there was big pressure on them. They kept having to deal with people trying to destroy the church—so they had to come up with ways. And being conservative and being closed to entrance from the outside was one of the ways that they came up with. Mabye I’ts not the best way, but that was one way they saw it. So they decided “We should be different.” And they always talk about being different. Like in Russia, they always note all the time “If you don’t this, how are you different from UN-Christians?” Like in Russia, they’ll say “If you wear this kind of clothes , how are then different?” So..this is because they were isolated for a long time and had to identify themselves and make sure that they don’t go together with the world.

G: To make sure I got you, because they were isolated, they really had to keep their identity and found ways to maintain that distinction.
​

Brother Mat V: The same thing with like…in Russia, in churches, they’re more open in saying they don’t identify with the world. Of course, here in U.S., you say “Of course, we’re Christians and they’re not..” But in Russia, you’ll hear “Oh, no, we’re completely different.”
​

The standard here with the local (hour and 3 hour away from us) Jewish community, is to wear wigs. While I respect that, I'm not a wig person, and that's definitely not the standard I grew up with for covering one's hair.

Right there with ya, as wigs are hard to get used to (IMHO).

As far as German culture goes - headscarves are considered oppressive, and a model of patriarchal society that wants women uneducated, unrepresented, hidden away, possibly abused, not provided for like the men and boys, and pregnant all the time.

Interesting to consider, in light of how many within the U.S have noted the same sentiments---just as they've also said that women who seek to cover up their bodies via long sleeves/hair coverings are not seeking to walk in "freedom" and its not generally seen as either fashionable or something that should be done in the mainstream...and for many, its also seen as something that is way too "old fashioned" or symbolic of women who are not independent.

As far as blending in/Opsec is concerned, here are a few Old Armed Forces News commercials that explain this concept:


AFN Commercial - Don't Be A Target For Terrorists - YouTube
AFN Commercial - Host Country Street Smarts - YouTube
AFN Commercial - Avoid Attention - YouTube
Avoid Attracting Attention - YouTube


I may no longer be a military dependent, but once you live with this lifestyle, it sticks with you. After all the threats we have had against the very small (and getting much smaller) American minority here in Germany, and the growing threat to the Jewish community here- it only makes sense to be very inconspicuous and not very memorable. Every couple weeks we get a new "warning" issued direct from the Embassy. I have a fine line to walk both as an American, but also as a legal alien resident. I am expected to blend in, speak German and do German things. Not American things. Once you are here and marry a German (as I did) you are supposed to assimilate. I do, within reason. I do not, where it does not agree with our religious / moral conscience.

All very true points. My only thought would be what to do for those who wear coverings in Germany (such as the Catholics or those who are Russian Orthodox) since they face the same battles as others with coverings...except yours is that you're an American. Though they may have less to deal with, they seem to have been very open as it concerns their choosing to wear coverings...and on the issue, I'm curious what their experiences would be like since its more than possible that there are others who may be American and yet married to others in those circles within Germany.

But on the issue of what you do with being inconspicuous, by no means is that something that is to be knocked. For its what many believers, Jewish or Non-Jewish, have had to do in differing cultures over the centuries...be it with the Japaneese CHristians in Japan when they closed themselves off from the world for centuries...or for those who were Marano Jews in New Mexico in their practicing Crypto-Christianity via practicing Judaism underground (i.e. not wearing Talits, not praying certain ways, etc) while appearing to convert to Catholicsm publically..and, for that matter, the experiences of believers in Hindu nations when it came to adopting certain customs/practices (including dress styles, etc).

For me, its always interesting since I wonder what life can be like for those in Islamic controlled nations where wearing scarfs/veils is apart of the larger culture anyway...and seeking to avoid doing so is a way to stand out just as it'd be in another nation where its not looked down upon.

I cover, and that's that. It's not up for debate for people outside my marriage. It's what I do, and what my husband agrees to.

Amen

Hope that clears the air a bit. The culture is vastly different here on many things, but much the same on others. Shalom

Many thanks for the clarifications...and again, more than understand how culture can always make a world of difference. Shalom

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Talmud (Kidushin, 31a) states "cover your head, so you should fear from heaven".

I read an article that Jews traditionally wore a turban.



There's scripture verses and enough pictures to support this theory as well.

Thanks for the info, as it concerns the article you referenced/its background. Very insightful

__________________

"He who does not love does not know God, for God is love." (1 John 4:8)​

 

[Gxg (G²)]

This is the snood I have. It's not completely solid so I wouldn't wear it just anywhere if my purpose was to cover my hair entirely. For me, it's fine. It itches my ears though so I need to come up with something to fix that.

Beautiful snood

I've seen similar, though with differing colors and variations

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I dress modestly and have recently stopped wearing jeans and pants. Not because of a biblical commandment but because I don't feel right when I have them on.

I want people to see that I am different. I don't want to be like everyone else. I'm just weird that way.

Awesome to see your heart in trying to honor the Lord on the issue, as that's the only one who you have to be concerned with

 

[Gxg (G²)]

For Jews, married women should keep their hair covered at all times...and men their head covered.

However, neither is expressed in the Tanach (although of course
the commandment for women to cover their hair is derived from
the story of the sotah). Men keeping their head covered is rabbinical.

Interesting point..

 

[Gxg (G²)]

As far as blending in/Opsec is concerned, here are a few Old Armed Forces News commercials that explain this concept:

AFN Commercial - Don't Be A Target For Terrorists - YouTube
AFN Commercial - Host Country Street Smarts - YouTube
AFN Commercial - Avoid Attention - YouTube
Avoid Attracting Attention - YouTube


I may no longer be a military dependent, but once you live with this lifestyle, it sticks with you. After all the threats we have had against the very small (and getting much smaller) American minority here in Germany, and the growing threat to the Jewish community here- it only makes sense to be very inconspicuous and not very memorable. Every couple weeks we get a new "warning" issued direct from the Embassy. I have a fine line to walk both as an American, but also as a legal alien resident. I am expected to blend in, speak German and do German things. Not American things. Once you are here and marry a German (as I did) you are supposed to assimilate. I do, within reason. I do not, where it does not agree with our religious / moral conscience.

Praying for your safety and that you/your family would prosper where you're at

The youth pastor over in one of the fellowships I attend/work for is from Germany and has noted many times how vastly different the culture in Germany is compared to the U.S when it comes to some of the dynamics you noted concerning life for Americans...

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Germany is largely a secular *Christian* country. There is no separation of church and state. All state holidays are church holidays, unless explicitly government holidays (Reunification day on Oct 3). They may vary a little by state, but are generally dictated by whether or not an area is more protestant than catholic, or vice versa. Most the practices here favor the more secular Christian P.O.V. (or athiest/agnostic) rather than Jewish and Muslim P.O.V. Putting that into perspective, there are rather good relations between the churches and the Jewish community, though it's a bit tense right now with the Messianic Jewish community, as teeny tiny as it is. (40 groups - congregations with a building and official house-congregations; most being Russian speaking, spread out in Germany).

Then you have the fact we live in a rather non-Jewish area (South, North, East and West of several), where the largest minority is Turkish, with animosity of those Turks to the Jewish community, German community, and Americans - you really don't want to stick out like a sore thumb and become a target. When it comes to the Turkish community, they like well defined lines of who does and doesn't belong. I don't have a problem with that, and respect that line. I also respect their rules when we shop in their stores. I harbor no animosity toward their culture or their beliefs. I just know there is a very delicate balance between what is considered male/female roles, modest/immodest, and also the tensions with politics and integration into German culture. I'd sooner not step in the doodoo. I much prefer blending in and being inconspicuous as possible..

Outside of the Muslim community, the only women I've seen wearing veilings (not scarves) of any kind are the Russian Orthodox or the very much older (60-90yr old) ladies that go to the local Catholic church on the holidays. I have not seen anyone going to any of the frei-gemeinde or the state run congregations that are protestant wearing headcoverings. Most the Mennonites here don't cover either.

If they were to ban wearing all forms of head coverings, under the claim that they all seem to appear either Muslim or seem oppressive (as exaggerations go politically), would you feel that it'd be something to fight against..or to go with concerning blending in?

 

[anisavta]

Easy,
I've knew how to put someone on ignore, but have never wanted to do that, so no, I was wrong when I thought it would mess up the page anyway. So there I have a way to keep from doing all that scrolling (right now it is a bit of a bid deal - 2nd day in hospital iv's hung in both arms, heart monitor - just not a good situation to have extra work added just to fellowship in here right now.

Oh my - how can we pray for you?

 

[yedida]

Oh my - how can we pray for you?

I have really bad COPD, combined with asthma. Since Sunday I had been having mini asthma attacks, by Tues afternoon it became more and more difficult to take in a breath. So......here I am. All prayers are appreciated, prognosis is I'll live another day at least

 

[anisavta]

!

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Easy,
I've knew how to put someone on ignore, but have never wanted to do that, so no, I was wrong when I thought it would mess up the page anyway. So there I have a way to keep from doing all that scrolling

The other option, as it concerns signatures, is to just disable signatures on your profile so you'd not see any. But thanks for utilizng the tool..

(right now it is a bit of a bid deal - 2nd day in hospital iv's hung in both arms, heart monitor - just not a good situation to have extra work added just to fellowship in here right now.

Will pray for you, as I can understand in light of others who've been in the same situation. Seen it alot with others having computer access in the hospital when they're in intensive care--as the mom's an OB-Gyn Doctor and grew up in the hospital alot. I don't know they'd put up that much of a fuss about it (as everyone's different and the folks I know are very mellow), nor would they really be trying to be online honestly if in serious condition--and if you were doing bad, I'm curious as to why there was no mention of it elsewhere in the threads during the time you've been posting so that others can know how to lift you up. But, again, will pray on the issue

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I have really bad COPD, combined with asthma. Since Sunday I had been having mini asthma attacks, by Tues afternoon it became more and more difficult to take in a breath. So......here I am. All prayers are appreciated, prognosis is I'll live another day at least

Thank the Lord they were able to address the issue early on rather than later..and praying you'd make it through.

 

[MysticalPsalmist]

No coverings are forbidden for Jew as long as glory is kept