Head Coverings

Devri · Oct 16, 2011

xDenax said:
This is the snood I have. It's not completely solid so I wouldn't wear it just anywhere if my purpose was to cover my hair entirely. For me, it's fine. It itches my ears though so I need to come up with something to fix that.

That is a beautiful snood! Just lovely.

Devri · Oct 16, 2011

xDenax said:
Yes, it does.

I wouldn't cover my hair all the time time. Neither my community nor Rabbi requires it, my husband hates it it and I don't feel the need to do it.

Well then, it's not for you and I respect that.

xDenax · Oct 16, 2011

anisavta said:
Very pretty. Perhaps a satin ribbon sewn as a border around the front?

Yes, that would probably work. I just need someone to do it for me since I don't have a sewing machine and I can barely sew anyway.

yedida · Oct 16, 2011

I knit and crochet them, along with "regular" type winter hats, summer style hats, headbands and scarves. Some I design myself. But I don't wear them either, for the same reason - I get overheated and thrown into asthma attacks. But I give them off during Chanukah and birthdays for ladies, and some regular caps for men.

xDenax · Oct 16, 2011

I wear hats all winter, even inside the house.

Gxg (G²) · Oct 16, 2011

Devri said:
I wear a headcovering 99% of the time except when I am at home. There are scriptures to support women covering their head but also I find that keeping my head covered brings me to a place of spiritual intimacy. It reminds me of my place with Yeshua as a bride and it helps me to feel secure. When I don't wear a covering, I feel exposed and naked and it makes me very uncomfortable. I'm probably weird in this and it wouldn't be the first time.

I think your question of headcoverings is very thought-provoking...and something worth considering when it comes to the way we dress.

For myself, I think that headcoverings are rather beautiful...and in regards to coverings, there are a myriad of variations that headcoverings can take place in. Be it with wearing burkas/veils or with wearing covering on one's hair to cover it, they all look stunning.. And though I used to not be for it fully, I must say it started to come more alive for me the more I began investigating/looking into Eastern culture/seeing the many variations of coverings that the women used.

Though many assume that wearing veils---be it partial or full (entire body coverings)---is something that shouldn't be done, I think there's something to it that many may miss.

There was one time earlier this year where I was driving to a meeting and the women had a full body covering like what often occurs in Muslim families....and I respected the fact that it seemed they were being conscious in their actions behind it.

And in media, the way that many of the women with veils have been portrayed have been very beautiful. As I've mentioned elsewhere, one of favorite movies of all time, called "Hildago", is on how an American Indian cowboy and his mustang are placed against the world's greatest Arabian horses and Bedouin riders, some of whom are determined to prevent a foreigner - and especially an "impure" horse - from finishing the race. In Arabia where the race occurs, one of the main characters who helps the cowboy out is the sheikh's daughter, Jazira. One thing thing refreshing about the portrayal of Arabs in this movie is Jazeera's strong rebellious character, as she stands up for what she believes is right and argues with her father when she has to..and yet she takes seriously her appearance/the way she carries herself around others. I was always floored seeing how she dressed and how stunning she was.

For more, a clip from the full movie one can see online:

Hidalgo (2004) Part 3 of 13

Sadly, many feel that veils and headcoverings are somehow "oppressive" ...but in many of the churches I've seen/been to, including Jewish circles I've seen, head coverings are very beautiful to behold......and for many, the issue of wearing a veil is more than appropriate since it is an issue of modesty and preventing others from not respecting the glory that a woman possesses. Also, many may not be aware of how Paul also discussed in I Corinthians 11..specifically, 1 Corinthians 11:1-3 and 1 Corinthians 11:14-16 / 1 Corinthians 11 . The explicit purpose of the Christian woman's headcovering, as stated by Paul, is that it is a sign of man's authority over woman. ..

For a good review on the issue, one can go online/look up the following articles:

Concerning veils for those who are believers, it is interesting to see others who feel that all all Hebrew women wore veils. In passages like Isaiah 47:1-3 where God pronounces judgment, He likens a wicked nation to a woman and speaks of “removing the veil” as an act of judgment and humiliation. Such language would make no sense unless the women in Isaiah’s audience wore head coverings routinely. Genesis 24:64-66 /Genesis 24 seems to speak to this, concerning Rebekah and how Issac found here when it came to her veil that she wore....and Genesis 29 seems to be another passage that seems to speak on the issue when it comes to Veiling Customs. Jacob’s failure to know the difference between Rachel and Leah on his wedding night (Gen. 29:21-30) has sometimes been ascribed either to his never having seen her face before or to a custom of veiling brides. Of course, the text shows that it was precisely for Rachel’s good looks that Jacob loved her (29:17). Nevertheless, it is possible that his failure to recognize Leah was the result of a veil, which she wore throughout the wedding night..

Genesis 38:13-15 mentions veils as well, though that seems to be in the sense of how prostitutes dressed...

SONG also mentions veils in terms of a relationship developing and the woman being concealed from her lover until there is progression, from courtship to the wedding night:

Song of Solomon 1:7
Tell me, you whom I love, where you graze your flock and where you rest your sheep at midday. Why should I be like a veiled woman beside the flocks of your friends?
Song of Solomon 1:6-8

Song of Solomon 4:1
He How beautiful you are, my darling! Oh, how beautiful! Your eyes behind your veil are doves. Your hair is like a flock of goats descending from the hills of Gilead.

Song of Solomon 4:3
Your lips are like a scarlet ribbon; your mouth is lovely. Your temples behind your veil are like the halves of a pomegranate.

Song of Solomon 6:7
Your temples behind your veil are like the halves of a pomegranate.

And in Eastern culture, it seems veils is something that's very much a big deal. And thankfully, within many circles of Christianity in the West, people are beginning to understand/appreciate it whenever it comes to seeing the ways that veils are truly something worth supporting.

For those women who may be Hebrew/Jewish and yet apart of the Orthodox Church or Catholic Church (as there are PLENTY, discussed here in #4 /#33 ), veils/head coverings may not be a big deal....but for many others, education on the matter is very much needed..

The Beauty of the Veil.

Head Covering for the Catholic Christian Women

Of course.....there are others who are believers in Messiah and feel that wearing of veils/coverings is nott necessarily in regards to somethiong one has to wear in the sense of external clothing. As another said best from the ministry of Ichthys in their article entitled Are women required to wear hats or veils in church?:

In my view, the 1st Corinthians 11 passage (the one responsible for "hats in church") has been widely misunderstood. Women are not required by the Bible to wear hats (or veils). It should be remembered that in this epistle, Paul is addressing many abuses on the part of the Corinthian church ("being baptized for the dead" for example: 15:29; cf. also abuses at the Lord's supper: 11:17-34; abuse of gifts: 12-14; marriage abuses: chapter 7; as well as correcting them on the topics of divisiveness, failure to judge immorality, going to law before unbelievers, etc.). This passage in chapter eleven is addressing another such abuse, namely, the following of the Greek custom of disheveling the hair and marring the appearance when in mourning (something often done in pagan rites of ritual mourning as well - clearly an abomination: cf. Ezek.8:14-15). I

If others wish to think that wearing veils is not necessary, I do believe that they are entitled to do so--but for those who do so in full conviction that its necessary, I think that they're more than within their rights to do so....and that they have PLENTY of scriptural reasons for why they should do so. As it is, its not as if wearing a head covering or a veil means that one cannot be fashionable with it since many actually do so with style:

The Many Looks of Modesty for the Christian Women

For more, there was one ministry that had many other excellent articles that I think would bless you---such as seen in the following if wishing to investigate more:

I've greatly enjoyed following the articles from this woman of God, as it concerns her background from a camp that was very big about ensuring that modesty was a must...and yet, understanding of how being modest didn't mean that one had to be against a sense of being fashionable. For those who seek to guard what others see, I must say that its rather amazing to see the differing designs and forms of creativity one can work with.

One organization does specific work within this area, under the name of Hijab Style...

Though I wish there were others, thankfully, I'm glad others out there are trying to bring headcoverings and veils into the limelight for many others who may not be aware of them

Gxg (G²) · Oct 16, 2011

JRSut1000 said:
I myself have struggled with the headcovering debate multiple times. I tried it for a while but I dont wear one anymore. I dont find it mandatory. I think if more people would wear it, I certainly wouldnt mind but as I dont see it in Torah I wont worry about it for now.
.

If I may say,

I think its interesting to witness how many take issue with the men as well as with the women--especially as it concerns the issue of men covering themselves during the services, be it in dancing/worship or in sitting for listening to the sermon.

There are others who feel all of the men should wear head coverings just as the Levitical priests did, while they also feel that the women should follow in the example. However, of course not all Messianics feel as such. Some good articles on the issue:

As John McKee said best on the subject:

Tefillin (Phylacteries)

So it shall serve as a sign on your hand and as phylacteries on your forehead, for with a powerful hand the Lord brought us out of Egypt (Exodus 13:16).

You shall bind them as a sign on your hand and they shall be as frontals on your forehead (Deuteronomy 6:8).

This commandment is viewed with suspicion by many non-Jewish Believers, although it is considered in Orthodox Judaism to be one of the most important commandments of the Torah. Judaism has largely interpreted the admonition to bind the Word of God on ones arm and forehead as physically binding the Word on the arm and forehead. Every day, Orthodox Jews bind leather boxes known as tefillin (!yLpT) or phylacteries (Grk. sing. phulaktērion, fulakthrion) to their arms and heads, remembering that the Lord led His people out of Egypt with an outstretched arm, and that we are to have His Word in our minds.

Many non-Jewish Messianics, again believing themselves to be of returning Ephraim, view this commandment as being entirely allegorical, meaning that we are to have the Word of God continually in what we do with our hands and in our minds. While remembering what Gods Word says about what we do with our hands and minds is important, this does not make the practice of wrapping tefillin wrong. Some will tell us that Yeshua the Messiah spoke against tefillin on the basis of Matthew 23:5 in His criticism of the Pharisaical leaders:

But they do all their deeds to be noticed by men; for they broaden their phylacteries and lengthen the tassels of their garments.

Does Yeshua speak against wrapping tefillin in this verse? I do not believe that He does. Notice that He also criticizes these Pharisees for their wearing of tzit-tzitsyet Yeshua Himself also wore tzit-tzits, having the fringes attached to the corners of His garments:

Wherever He entered villages, or cities, or countryside, they were laying the sick in the market places, and imploring Him that they might just touch the fringe of His cloak; and as many as touched it were being cured (Mark 6:56).

And a woman who had a hemorrhage for twelve years, and could not be healed by anyone, came up behind Him and touched the fringe of His cloak, and immediately her hemorrhage stopped (Luke 8:43-44).

If we look at the correct context of Matthew 23:5, Yeshua is actually criticizing these Pharisees for the manner they wore tzit-tzits and wrapped tefillin. He is not saying that wrapping tefillin is wrong. More than likely, Yeshua wrapped tefillin Himself. Those who might say that tefillin did not exist in the First Century, as there are some who have said so, are saying things which scholarship and archaeology easily denounce.

Now if you do not wish to wrap tefillin and consider it an invalid interpretation of the Torah, you are entitled to your opinion. Some of you may not do it because tefillin are very expensive, or are unprepared to make the commitment to use them. Do not feel obligated to wrap tefillin, but do not criticize our Jewish brethren for adhering to something that pre-dates the Messiah. Tefillin existed before His birth, and in all likelihood Yeshua used them.

Kippas (Yarmulkes)
One of the most obvious elements of modern Jewish identity is men wearing the kippa (or yarmulke) or skullcap. The idea behind wearing this small skullcap is that it shows submission to God. The term kippa is derived from the Hebrew verb kaphar (rpK), meaning to cover, to forgive, to expiate, to reconcile (AMG). The kippa is believed to be a covering which represents a mans submission to God.

It is notable that the mans headcovering is not a commandment of Scripture. This is a Jewish tradition that has developed over time. Alfred J. Kolatch explains this in The Jewish Book of Why:

A yarmulke, called a kipa in Hebrew, is a skullcap worn by Jews. Some wear one at all times, others only during prayer and at mealtime.
.The custom of covering the
head received wide acceptance, but not by all. Historian Israel Abrahams points out that in the thirteenth century boys in Germany and adults in France were called to the Tora in the synagogue bareheaded.

In the Middle Ages, French and Spanish rabbinical authorities regarded the practice of covering the head during prayer and when studying the Tora to be no more than mere custom. Some rabbis were known to pray bareheaded.

Today, Orthodox Jews and many Conservative Jews believe that covering the head is an expression of yirat Shamayim (fear of God or reverence for God).

It is not uncommon in many Messianic congregations to see men wear kippas. Many non-Jewish Believers feel led to wear a kippa so that they can identify with their Jewish brethren, especially as it has been debated that during the Middle Ages Jewish men were forced to wear these headcoverings by Christians, so as to be easily identified. However, there is a substantial amount of criticism from various others on whether the kippa is appropriate to wear. It is usually based on the following verse from the Apostolic Scriptures:

For a man ought not to have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man (1 Corinthians 11:7).

There is a translation issue here. The Greek verb translated as covered is katakaluptō (katakaluptw), which according to BDAG means cover, veil, specifically to cover oneself w. a veil. AMG defines it as To cover with a veil or something which hangs down, hence, to veil.

What is really being said here is that men should not have their heads veiled over, specifically over their face in a feminine manner. This is why the NRSV renders 1 Corinthians 11:7 as a man ought not to have his head veiled, since he is the image and reflection of God; but woman is the reflection of man.

I do not consider the wearing of the kippa to be a mandatory commandment, nor something that should be obligated upon anyone.

__________________

Gxg (G²) · Oct 16, 2011

yedida said:
I knit and crochet them, along with "regular" type winter hats, summer style hats, headbands and scarves. Some I design myself. But I don't wear them either, for the same reason - I get overheated and thrown into asthma attacks. But I give them off during Chanukah and birthdays for ladies, and some regular caps for men.

Sad to hear all of that occuring due to the clothing, as I wish you could wear it with no problems. But glad for the times when you're able to wear what you do.

anisavta · Oct 17, 2011

I love the look of the cloche hat, but I don't look good in it and they are usually wool and DH is allergic to wool.

EyesOfKohl · Oct 17, 2011

I quite like the Bukharian style kippah myself

Also love the one the person on the right is wearing, it's Yemeni style, never seen one for sale though

Though I don't actually own a kippah, I have a range of turbans, yashmaghs & desi hats

xDenax · Oct 17, 2011

anisavta said:
I love the look of the cloche hat, but I don't look good in it and they are usually wool and DH is allergic to wool.

Etsy has a ton that are knit or crochet and not made with wool.

MessianicMommy · Oct 17, 2011

I usually wear hats or smaller handkerchief style scarves with my hair up. longer scarves/veils are looked at as an opressive/Muslim thing to do around here, and it's just easier fitting in with more trendy styles than constantly try to explain what I am up to.

Back home I wore scarves from Tznius.com more than I did hats. I could work within the dresscode better with the scarves.

Desert Rose · Oct 17, 2011

anisavta said:
............and DH is allergic to wool.

....as anisavta discovered when she tried to bring home a pet sheep named Curly Whatever happend to the animal, btw? Where did it end up? I have some suspicions...Tell us, we are family!

Thanks dearly for the page with the directions for the various scarf tying designs! Some are so unique, i bet nobody knew how to do em. I didnt. Well explained, pretty idiot-proof. Kashmere ones tied as "crown" are very stylish for fall or spring, I wear those outside.

anisavta · Oct 17, 2011

OK OK I'll confess... lamb stew... with lentils. Oy vavoy!
Love the scarf tying lessons. I've spent time in front of the mirror with my scarves.
There is a wonderful hat shop in the Old City Jerusalem - Esther's Hats that I love. Esther makes scarf tying so easy. I spend too much money there!

ChavaK · Oct 17, 2011

anisavta said:
scarves.
I spend too much money there!

That's good! You're supporting the economy!
My vice is buying sterling besamim boxes. I generally
buy them in Mea Shearim because you get the best
prices. Every time I go I have to pick up a couple of
them. It's an expensive hobby, but I love them. I
think I have over a hundred by now.

anisavta · Oct 17, 2011

What a cool collection. There are so many different sizes, styles ...
Would love to see a pic!

ChavaK · Oct 17, 2011

anisavta said:
What a cool collection. There are so many different sizes, styles ...
Would love to see a pic!

I'll see about picking out some of my favorites and taking a photo.
I am partial to sterling filigree, so most of them tend to be on
the ornate side.
I also like different shapes- grandfather clocks, cars, fish, birdhouse, etc.

Gxg (G²) · Oct 17, 2011

Za'atar said:
I quite like the Bukharian style kippah myself

Also love the one the person on the right is wearing, it's Yemeni style, never seen one for sale though

Though I don't actually own a kippah, I have a range of turbans, yashmaghs & desi hats

Learning how to make one's own turbans and desi hats is such a valuable skill. Would love to know how to make a covering such as the Yemeni styled one you put up--as its wonderful

EyesOfKohl · Oct 17, 2011

Easy G (G²);58777844 said:
Sadly, many feel that veils and headcoverings are somehow "oppressive" ...but in many of the churches I've seen/been to, including Jewish circles I've seen, head coverings are very beautiful to behold......and for many, the issue of wearing a veil is more than appropriate since it is an issue of modesty and preventing others from not respecting the glory that a woman possesses. Also, many may not be aware of how Paul also discussed in I Corinthians 11..specifically, 1 Corinthians 11:1-3 and 1 Corinthians 11:14-16 / 1 Corinthians 11 . The explicit purpose of the Christian woman's headcovering, as stated by Paul, is that it is a sign of man's authority over woman. ..

Though I myself don't follow Pauls writings, I thought MikhaelDavid explained Corinthians 11 very well. Speaking of him, I haven't seen him around in ages, hope he is well and doesn't mind me quoting him.

MikhaelDavid said:
My views of 1 Corinthians 11 is a bit different...

Verse 15: "But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a [First] covering."

and Verse 14: "Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?"

This is all in the context of headcoverings which are an additional covering over that of the natural hair covering. Paul is using an analogy of the natural covering of hair to argue for headcoverings.

So then we need to define long by scripture and what is shameful vs. what is not shameful..

Verse 6 gives us the clue for women... It says "For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered."

Paul is arguing that if women do not add the additional cloth covering then let her be shorn or shaven. Then he said it is shameful for a women to be shorn or shaven.. So what is shaven? it is removal of all the hair right down to the scalp.. But what is Shorn? Shorn is cutting the hair.. See women's hair would never have been cut or it would already be shorn. Anytime a hair cut is given it is shorned or in other words cut.. So from those who words we get a definition of what is long.. It is the uncut terminal ends of hair growth. I did a study once of pictographs, drawings and paintings down through ages of women and before a certain century they all had long hair down to their feet and often plaited or braided and then covered in a cloth headcovering. Remember Mary who annointed Yeshua's feet she then used her hair, which had to be long enough to wash the feet of her Savior.

Easy G (G²);58786725 said:
Learning how to make one's own turbans and desi hats is such a valuable skill. Would love to know how to make a covering such as the Yemeni styled one you put up--as its wonderful

The top Bukharian one was made by Larissa Eidlina, she makes them professionally at designkippah.com

I tried looking for a Yemeni one on nearly all Judaica sites and never found one lol

Turban cloths are generally just solid coloured, you might get the embroidered patches on the ends or striped ends like the afghan lungee, they make designer patterened ones as well, but usually they just vary in fabric. Also the style of how you wrap it makes a big difference! Speaking of desi hats, the sindhi cap is quite nice, what the guy with the long hair is wearing. Some of them are heavily embroidered with bits of mirror etc in the hat, I have one myself which I got from Pakistan.

What are the mens favourite hat choices here?

Also would like to say, I think it's beautiful when women loosely drap a scarf around their head. There are some beautiful scarves you see around

Gxg (G²) · Oct 18, 2011

Za'atar said:
Though I myself don't follow Pauls writings, I thought MikhaelDavid explained Corinthians 11 very well. Speaking of him, I haven't seen him around in ages, hope he is well and doesn't mind me quoting him.

Thanks for bringing up the thread reminder, as I did enjoy what Brother Mikhael noted when it comes to the subject of long hair....and how a male perspective would be on the subject. I hope he's doing well too, as I do miss him and many of the things he brought to the table of this forum. There are ALOT of people, actually, who brought things to the table and yet they're no longer present.

Many of the points that Mikhael brought up were spot on, especially when considering the ways that the hair of a woman was seen as a glorious thing to be kept at a good length....and there was thus alot of importance in ensuring it be kept long. For me, of course, I don't think that what Paul said in I Corinthians 11 was meant to be binding in all churches for all time since the Corinthian church was one where he was essentially the father of/had to make practices for ensuring that certain things be kept in line due to the time/place that they lived in.

To me, its always interesting to see when examining/inquiring as to whether or not people wish to go the entire way with concepts they're willing to go to war over----as in some pentecostal churches, the "hair debate" is naturally ventured into alongside the concept of women being silent in churches/not being pastors....as in many churches, women are not allowed to wear hats...and they cannot cut their hair..with it always being long. And plenty of denominations that have sprung up in battle over the issue. By all means, they have freedom to do that...as in some churches where women cannot cut their hair, I would've loved to see what it looked like, as it must've been beautiful----but then again, so were the hair styles of the women in the churches I grew up in who had short hair. The hat/head dresses people often wore/advertised in the Black Church have always been amazing to me....

And of course, the issue of culture ties right into that...as Hair is a big deal in the African American Community---and for more info, I'd suggest looking into the documentary by Chris Rock coming out known as "Good Hair" ()/ "Afro America" ()---as it goes in-depth showing the connections between the culture and church, as the natural importance of the Barber Shop/Beauty Salons within Black culture have been of significant impact upon certain issues discussed in churches (namely, hair). Some of this was discussed more in-depth elsewhere, as seen here in #68 . And on the issue of hair I often got to see, if the hair was long, for some of them, it was the good old fashion "Weave"/"Wig" from "Sally's Beauty Salon" that made the difference--if you know what I'm talking about ( lol lol lol).

But for those who had it short, if I may say, 1 Cor. 11:14, 15 ----In talking about head coverings and length of hair, I think its good when one seeks to understand the Greek. Greek was written without punctuation. Whether these verses are a question or a statement has to be determined by the context. The punctuation that we have in our bibles are there because of the translator’s interpretation of what Paul is saying but not all agree that Paul is asking a question.

IMHO, Paul was saying that believers should look and behave in ways that are HONORABLE within their own culture. In many cultures long hair on men is considered appropriate and masculine. For example, Does nature teach us that men should have short hair and that women should have long hair? No, nature doesn’t teach us that at all. The hair on a boys head grow just as the hair on a girls head. Nature does not teach us that there is a difference. Does nature teach us that it is a shame for a man to have long hair? In many cultures men have long hair and they are not ashamed. ….and likewise with women in many African countries who have shaved heads , God has designed some hair to show that these hairs are different.

This brings us to the second thing that we need to know about this passage. We need to know that the glory of hair belongs to “himself or herself” not to just “women”.

1 Corinthians 11:15 (ISV)…nor that hair is a woman’s glory, for hair is given as a substitute for coverings.

In Corinth, LONG-HAIR was thought to be a sign of male prostitution in the pagan temples . And Women with short hair were labeled as prostitutes…..and what Paul was saying was that in the Corinthian Culture, Christian women should keep their hair long, for if short hair on women was a sign of prostitution, then a Christian woman with short hair would find it even more difficult to be a believable witness for Jesus Christ.

Paul wasn’t saying that we should adopt ALL the practices of our culture, but that we should avoid the appearances and behavior that DETRACT from our ultimate goal of being believable witnesses for Jesus while demonstrating our Christian Faith. This is not to say that long hair itself was not HIGHLY valuable within the Jewish culture---as Mikhael noted well when it came to the ways that Jewish women/men valued their hair...and the men were commanded not to shave their beards.

Some think the general idea is that we are not to look in a manner that draws attention to ourselves or is unbecoming in the assembly of saints---and they say a covering on the head would maintain a level of ensuring nobody is trying to draw glances to themselves. For most cultures, men keep their hair shorter than woman and that’s the majority norm in America too. And being for Anthropology myself, the ways in which differing cultures interact have always been fascinating....

Head Coverings

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