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"He who practices righteousness is righteous" (1 John 3:7)

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by BCsenior, Apr 14, 2021.

  1. Paulomycin

    Paulomycin Well-Known Member

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    Still not seeing you post a step-by-step process in consecutive order here.

    It really shouldn't be that difficult.
     
  2. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Nothing I said has changed. They are weeds. This is true. They justified sin or a belief that says they can sin and still be saved. But verse 41 says they are gathered out of HIS KINGDOM (i.e. Christ's kingdom). So no. You are the one that is not dealing with what this passage plainly says.
     
  3. Butterball1

    Butterball1 Well-Known Member

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    The point I made is from Hebrews 11:7. The saving of Noah's house was a matter of God's grace for God did not owe that to Noah. But for Noah to receive the free gift of salvation from the flood GOD REQUIRED Noah to build an ark.

    No obedience in building the ark = will not receive God's free gift of grace.

    Therefore building the ark was a necessary requirement of GOD'S and Noah obeying in building the ark simply met GOD'S precondition that GOD placed upon HIS free gift. And Noah's work therefore earned him nothing. So the faith onlyists' argument that obeying is an attempt to earn God's free gift has no biblical, logical basis for it purposefully ignores the everyday common fact that free gifts can and do come with preconditions and meeting the preconditions earns nothing.
     
  4. Paulomycin

    Paulomycin Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 6:8 still comes before that.

    Genesis 6:8 literally says Noah found grace before building the ark. Stop failing.
     
  5. Butterball1

    Butterball1 Well-Known Member

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    As long as one remains in disobedience he remains lost. God does not save those who continue to live in rebellion to His will. So obeying God is what moves one from the "disobedient/unrighteous" category to the "righteous/obedient" category.

    --no for one's faith is not going to be sinlessly perfect leaving one still in need of grace, so not having a perfect faith is nothing to boast about.

    --if having belief is something to boast about as you claim, then Paul must wanted the jailer to have something to boast about when Paul commanded the jailer to believe, Acts 16:31. Having something to boast about must then be part of salvation if you are correct.


    You've yet to explain how doing one's duty in obeying God is something to boast about when one is still left UNPROFITABLE after doing his duty. What is there to boast about in being unprofitable?
     
  6. Butterball1

    Butterball1 Well-Known Member

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    It does not matter. You are ignoring that Noah must have done a work commanded him by God in building the ark in order to receive the free gift and that work did not earn Noah the free gift. Where in Genesis 6 (or anywhere else) does it say that Noah worked to earn God's free gift of salvation from the flood?

    Would Noah still find grace in God's eyes had he disobeyed and not built the ark? NO. Noah found grace in God's eyes because he obeyed (Genesis 6:9) and he would have to continue to obey to continue to be found in grace. Being in God's grace is not something that happens once and for all time unconditionally but is conditional upon man's obedience and CONTINUED obedience to God.
     
  7. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    When I read the Scriptures, I see 4 different aspects of salvation described.

    #1. Provisional Atonement (not "Limited Atonement").
    (A 100% Work of God alone that can only be applied personally to an individual's life via by being saved by God's grace and Sanctification).
    This is Jesus paying the price for the sins of the entire world so as to offer mankind the free gift of salvation (if they so choose to accept it); Note: Christ's resurrection (to give us a new body not tainted by sin one day), and the ascension to the Father (after Christ telling Mary not to touch Him), and his entering the holy temple by his blood (to be our Heavenly High Priest) is also included in the Provisional Atonement, too. (For Provisional Atonement verses, see: John 1:29, 1 John 2:2, 1 Timothy 2:6, 2 Corinthians 5:19, Romans 5:6-8.) (Note: The best way to describe the Provisional Atonement is like a man who paid the price to pay off your debts by his handing you a check to be debt free; But it is up to you to receive the check, deposit it into your checking account, and pay off those you are in debt to; It's a gift, but like all good gifts in life, you have to receive the gift and use it properly to be of any benefit). Jesus provided an atonement, but it is up to us to receive it to personally apply to our lives by having a proper faith. Men will remain as sinners if they reject the Provisional Atonement of Jesus Christ.

    #2. God's Grace Through Faith in Jesus Christ as the Savior
    (Initial Salvation, and or Foundational Salvation).
    (The 1st synergistic work of GOD done in a believer).
    Being saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus as ones Savior is the entrance gate to salvation, and it is the foundation of our salvation (by faith) upon which we stand. Being saved by God's grace is believing the gospel (Which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes it - Romans 1:16). According to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4: The gospel is you believing that Jesus Christ died for your sins, He was buried, and He had risen again three days later for your salvation (Note: Do not let anyone sell you on another gospel besides this one). Depending on a person’s access or exposure to the Word: Being saved by God's grace will also generally include receiving Jesus as your Savior (John 1:12), and calling upon the name of the Lord (i.e. confessing with your mouth the words: “Lord Jesus” or similar equivalent - Romans 10:9) as a part of seeking forgiveness of your sins with Him by way of prayer (Romans 10:13) (Luke 15:18-21) (Luke 18:9-14). This process of salvation is without the deeds of the Law or works because it is based upon God’s mercy and grace and His redemptive work. As a result: One is born again spiritually (Note: Born again by the Spirit, and born again by water (i.e. the Scriptures - Romans 10:17, 1 Peter 1:23)). A person is foundationally or ultimately saved by God’s grace because if they happen to sin on rare occasion in their Christian walk, they do not do a good work to absolve that sin, but they confess of their sins to Jesus in order to be forgiven of that sin (1 John 1:9) (1 John 2:1) (Hebrews 4:16) (For verses on being saved by God's grace, see: Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:1-6, Titus 3:4-7, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Luke 18:9-14, Romans 5:1-2).

    #3. Sanctification of the Spirit to Live a Holy Life
    (The Next Step or Phase in the Salvation Process).
    (The 2nd synergistic work of God done in a believer).
    Sanctification of the Spirit to Live a Holy Life is the next step or phase in Salvation for a believer who lives out their faith; This is the work of God moving in a believer's life so as to help them to live holy, and to do good works and to put away the lusts of the flesh. These good works are the works of God done through the believer, and so all boasting or praise is given to the Lord. Therefore, there is no boasting in one's own work because they are ultimately the works of God done through the believer. A believer today who obeys the Lord looks to the commands of Jesus and His followers within the New Testament primarily. For believers today are not under the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole package deal (even though certain laws have carried over into the New Testament). Basically all ceremonial laws and judicial laws in the Old Testament no longer apply. For example: Believers do not have to keep the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, animal sacrifices, holy days, etc.; However, believers must keep God's Moral Laws like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, do not lie, do commit adultery, etc.; Two of the greatest commands that we should focus on daily is to love God and love our neighbor which is more fully described in Mark 12:29-31. We need to worship or adore the Lord our God, preach the gospel, help the poor, love the brethren, love our enemies, and live holy lives, etc. (For Sanctification verses, see: James 2:24, James 2:17-18, Titus 1:16, Hebrews 5:9, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Hebrews 12:14, Romans 8:1 (KJV), 1 Corinthians 16:22, Romans 8:13, etc.).

    #4. Glorification (The Future Salvation of the Truly Faithful Believer).
    (A 100% Work of God alone that can only be applied personally to an individual's life via by being saved by God's grace and by properly applying the Sanctification of the Spirit to Live a Holy Life).
    Glorification is when God takes the believer home to be with Him in His kingdom and He gives Him a new resurrected body that is not tainted by sin. This process of salvation (in being taken home) is a by product automatically for those believers who properly God's grace through faith in Christ, and Sanctification to their lives (For Glorification verses, see: 1 Peter 5:4, 1 Peter 1:4, 1 Corinthians 15:51-57, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, Romans 13:11, Philippians 3:20-21, Hebrews 9:28).


    Conclusion:

    God's grace, and then Sanctification is what we as believers need to be focused on. For if we are saved by His grace, and sanctified (which is only made possible by the Provisional Atonement), then we will be glorified.
     
  8. setst777

    setst777 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The Spirit and the Word have always been active in the World, searching the hearts of men (Psalms 33:18-19; Psalms 139:1; Psalms 139:21; 1 Chronicles 28:9; 2 Chronicles 16:9; Revelation 2:23; Revelation 5:6; Psalms 25:8-9), convicting and enlightening every man who enters the world (John 1:9; Hebrews 4:12).

    This was a Sovereign God’s plan and design from the beginning, to save and bring justice and to teach those who would humble themselves (Psalms 18:27; Psalms 25:9-10; Luke 4:18-19; Isaiah 61:1-2; Matthew 11:28-29; Acts 28:27-28) for they will listen.

    But the Word and Holy Spirit are resisted by many, (Acts 7:51-53; Isaiah 63:10; Psalms 106:32-33; Romans 10:21; John 3:18).

    The point made here is that the Spirit and Word are always active in the World, which is God’s universal call (John 3:13-18) and invitation (Matthew 22:8-9) to bring people to faith, to all who will listen.

    So, when are we born again or regenerated?
    We are children of God (John 1:12; Galatians 3:26) by faith.

    We are children of light (John 12:36) by faith.

    By faith, we are justified, and we access God’s saving grace.


    Romans 5:1-2 (WEB) 1 Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; 2 through whom we also have our access by faith into this grace in which we stand. We rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

    Blessings
     
  9. Paulomycin

    Paulomycin Well-Known Member

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    You've yet to explain the process of salvation from A-Z.
     
  10. Paulomycin

    Paulomycin Well-Known Member

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    Of course, it doesn't matter to you! It defeats your presupposed narrative!
     
  11. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

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    "They" are "tares" which is to say unbelievers, not born-again children of God. And Jesus says nothing in the passage from Matthew 13 about these "tares" "justifying sin or a belief that says they can sin and still be saved." This is your addition to the passage, an eisegetical interpretation of Jesus's words. The "tares," as Jesus explained very clearly, are sown by the devil. How, then, can the "tares" be genuinely born-again believers? Obviously, they can't, which is why Jesus specifically described them as "children (sons) of the evil one" in verse 38. It is a contortion born of your saved-and-lost, works-salvation doctrine that makes the "tares" and the born-again believer synonymous.

    In contrast, I have not added to, nor subtracted from, Jesus's words in the Matthew 13 passage at all. I've simply acknowledged, in context, only what is actually written. So, no, I'm not the one guilty of playing fast-and-loose with Scripture, you are.
     
  12. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Again, you are not reading and believing verse 41. Let's read it.

    “The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;” (Matthew 13:41).

    You want it to say out of the kingdom of the tares.

    But the angels of Jesus are going to gather out of HIS KINGDOM those who do iniquity (sin). Whose kingdom are the angels gathering these tares out of?
    The kingdom of the Son of man (i.e. Jesus Christ).
    Jesus must have this done before He can give the kingdom back to God the Father.
     
  13. Paulomycin

    Paulomycin Well-Known Member

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    So Christ died in vain for those who did not choose to believe in Him.

    Synergism is God cooperating with the works of man to achieve salvation. Thus, you are saved by works. You have something to boast of. Thanks for playing.

    So even more works. How do you even know you've done enough to be saved? You don't even know for sure which stage you're in.

    What a trainwreck.
     
  14. Paulomycin

    Paulomycin Well-Known Member

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    This is still not explaining the process of salvation in consecutive order: "A, B, C, D. . ."
     
  15. setst777

    setst777 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No. The will of the Spirit is to indwell and give life to those who believe. That is the will of the Spirit.
     
  16. setst777

    setst777 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You do not explain yourself very well. My feeling was that you believe faith is part of salvation, otherwise you feel we have something to boast about if faith comes from us. However, Scripture repeatedly teaches us that salvation is by faith.
     
  17. Paulomycin

    Paulomycin Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, but it's not a work. We're saved by Grace through faith, but even that faith is not of ourselves. It's all a gift of God. Not works. Lest anyone should boast.
     
  18. setst777

    setst777 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Actually, the explanation is give in order for you. However, you cannot accept it because it disagrees with what you were taught by others.
     
  19. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    It's similiar to Matthew 7:21-23. Believers who profess to do good works in His name are told to depart from the Lord because they worked iniquity or lawlessness. This means that they justified sin in some way, and this is why Christ did not know them. For we can have an assurance that we know the Lord if we find that we keep His commandments (1 John 2:3); And the person who says they know the Lord and does not keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in them (1 John 2:4).

    Ezekiel 3:20 talks about how the righteous man who turns back away from his righteousness and does iniquity, all his previous righteousness will not be remembered. So seeing God associates with those who do righteousness (1 John 3:10), the Lord will no longer remember them. It will be as if He never knew them because there are no more righteous deeds to remember anymore. The good works they did in His name were not by the power of the Lord working through them. They went off and did their own thing by also justifying sin, too.
     
  20. Paulomycin

    Paulomycin Well-Known Member

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    Then why can't you translate the order consecutively?
     
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