"He who practices righteousness is righteous" (1 John 3:7)

[John Mullally]

If it's contingent to our final executive decision alone, then you are implying that God is not omniscient and therefore not God. This isn't limited to Open Theism.

Was Peter on the day of Pentecost offering a works based salvation when he proclaimed Acts 2:38-39? Unmistakably, the Holy Spirit speaking through Peter called those in attendance and promises the remission of sins and gift of the Holy Spirit (this is arguably salvation) to those who repent and are baptized (in verse 38). Verse 39 says that that offer extends to today.

Acts 2:36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.” 37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?” 38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.” 40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.” 41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them​

If a drowning man grabs an offered life preserver, does he glory in saving himself? Or does he thank the real rescuer?

 

[aiki]

Again, you are not reading and believing verse 41. Let's read it.

“The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;” (Matthew 13:41).

You want it to say out of the kingdom of the tares.

But the angels of Jesus are going to gather out of HIS KINGDOM those who do iniquity (sin). Whose kingdom are the angels gathering these tares out of?
The kingdom of the Son of man (i.e. Jesus Christ).
Jesus must have this done before He can give the kingdom back to God the Father.

Matthew 13:40-42
40 "So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.
41 "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,
42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Verse 40 is the anchor to what follows in verses 41 and 42; the latter verses offering greater details on the former. Those gathered out of God's kingdom are as verse 40 clearly indicates, NOT believers but "tares" whom Jesus had already identified as "sons of the evil one."

There are certainly many people involved in the life and work of the Church, apparent members of God's kingdom, who are "false brethren," or "tares," as they are called by Jesus in Matthew 13. They pray with believers, worship God with them, work alongside them in various ministries, tithing and so on, in every external way apparently children of God and members of His kingdom. But, as Jesus explained in Matthew 13, they will be revealed NOT as unsaved born-again believers, but as the false brethren - "tares" - they were all along, illegitimate members of His kingdom and so removed from it at the Final Judgment.

You seem to assume that all those in God's kingdom must be genuine members of it. Spiritually, this is the case. But to you and I, distinguishing who is and isn't genuinely part of God's kingdom, is not clearly evident. Not until God takes out the "tares" from His kingdom will we know who many of them are. He is not, though, removing them from a spiritual condition, but from their place within the community of truly born-again believers. No other reading of verse 41 comports properly with the context of verses 38-40 that identify "tares" as the individuals removed from God's kingdom, NOT born-again believers.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Matthew 13:40-42
40 "So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.
41 "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,
42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Verse 40 is the anchor to what follows in verses 41 and 42; the latter verses offering greater details on the former. Those gathered out of God's kingdom are as verse 40 clearly indicates, NOT believers but "tares" whom Jesus had already identified as "sons of the evil one."

There are certainly many people involved in the life and work of the Church, apparent members of God's kingdom, who are "false brethren," or "tares," as they are called by Jesus in Matthew 13. They pray with believers, worship God with them, work alongside them in various ministries, tithing and so on, in every external way apparently children of God and members of His kingdom. But, as Jesus explained in Matthew 13, they will be revealed NOT as unsaved born-again believers, but as the false brethren - "tares" - they were all along, illegitimate members of His kingdom and so removed from it at the Final Judgment.

You seem to assume that all those in God's kingdom must be genuine members of it. Spiritually, this is the case. But to you and I, distinguishing who is and isn't genuinely part of God's kingdom, is not clearly evident. Not until God takes out the "tares" from His kingdom will we know who many of them are. He is not, though, removing them from a spiritual condition, but from their place within the community of truly born-again believers. No other reading of verse 41 comports properly with the context of verses 38-40 that identify "tares" as the individuals removed from God's kingdom, NOT born-again believers.

As I said, I am not in disagreement that they are tares. But they are removed from Christ's Kingdom. Why? Why are they removed? It was because the passage says that they do iniquity. To do iniquity (sin) means they work sin in some way. This can be a false belief that leads others into sin or it can be a reference to their simply committing serious sins over their whole life that the Bible condemns. This runs contrary to what you said before.

 

[aiki]

It's similiar to Matthew 7:21-23. Believers who profess to do good works in His name are told to depart from the Lord because they worked iniquity or lawlessness. This means that they justified sin in some way, and this is why Christ did not know them.

As in other instances, you have not taken the passage in its context:

Matthew 7:15-23
15 "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
16 "You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
17 "So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19 "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 "So then, you will know them by their fruits.
21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Those who say, "Lord, Lord" are the false prophets mentioned in verse 15; false prophets are the ones in sheep's clothing; false prophets are the ones who are "bad trees" that bear "bad fruit"; false prophets are the ones who prophesy, cast out demons and perform many miracles in Christ's name. And it is to false prophets Jesus says, "Depart from me, I never knew you." Genuinely born-again believers are not in view in this passage. Simply keeping verses in their context would eliminate much of your misconstructions of their meaning.

For we can have an assurance that we know the Lord if we find that we keep His commandments (1 John 2:3); And the person who says they know the Lord and does not keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in them (1 John 2:4).

See 1 Corinthians. Lots of gross, willful sin among the Corinthian believers and yet Paul repeatedly indicates they are, nonetheless, in Christ, brethren, saints, temples of God, and so on.

Yes, keeping God's commandments is a natural by-product of genuine spiritual regeneration; obedience happens inevitably in a spiritually healthy believer. But such obedience is not necessary to their membership in God's family - as Paul's letter to the Corinthians plainly reveals.

Ezekiel 3:20 talks about how the righteous man who turns back away from his righteousness and does iniquity, all his previous righteousness will not be remembered.

Which in no way applies to NT believers whose righteousness is imputed to them from Christ. It is in Christ's perfect righteousness that every genuine believer is clothed, not their own, and it is this righteousness that obtains for them their redemption, justification and sanctification before God (1 Corinthians 1:30). Such righteousness cannot be negated or forgotten by God for it is His own righteousness.

So seeing God associates with those who do righteousness (1 John 3:10), the Lord will no longer remember them.

A conclusion catering to your works-salvation thinking rather than to Scripture. See above.

 

[aiki]

As I said, I am not in disagreement that they are tares. But they are removed from Christ's Kingdom. Why? Why are they removed? It was because the passage says that they do iniquity.

It says they are removed because they are "tares," "sons of the evil one," NOT born-again believers. You are making a leap from the former to the latter (illegitimately) because of your doctrinal works-salvation presupposition.

To do iniquity (sin) means they work sin in some way.

This is what "sons of the evil one" do, of course.

This can be a false belief that leads others into sin or it can be a reference to their simply committing serious sins over their whole life that the Bible condemns.

This is an explanation rising from your works-salvation doctrine, not from the actual text of Matthew 13:38-42. Jesus says who he means and that confines the honest reader to "tares" sown by the devil into God's kingdom, not formerly born-again believers.

 

[timothyu]

It's as simple as saying those who understand the ways of God to be the best, stand on this side. Those who defend the self serving ways of man, stand over there. No need to complicate it with a religion or those who take pride in theological knowledge.

James 1:27 Pure and undefiled religion before our God and Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

As in other instances, you have not taken the passage in its context:

Matthew 7:15-23
15 "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
16 "You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
17 "So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19 "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 "So then, you will know them by their fruits.
21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Those who say, "Lord, Lord" are the false prophets mentioned in verse 15; false prophets are the ones in sheep's clothing; false prophets are the ones who are "bad trees" that bear "bad fruit"; false prophets are the ones who prophesy, cast out demons and perform many miracles in Christ's name. And it is to false prophets Jesus says, "Depart from me, I never knew you." Genuinely born-again believers are not in view in this passage. Simply keeping verses in their context would eliminate much of your misconstructions of their meaning.

Peter describes false teachers who have eyes full of adultery and who cannot cease from sin (2 Peter 2:1, 2 Peter 2:14). This sounds offly close to the the sin and still be saved mentality held by many professing Christians I have heard today.

See 1 Corinthians. Lots of gross, willful sin among the Corinthian believers and yet Paul repeatedly indicates they are, nonetheless, in Christ, brethren, saints, temples of God, and so on.

Yes, keeping God's commandments is a natural by-product of genuine spiritual regeneration; obedience happens inevitably in a spiritually healthy believer. But such obedience is not necessary to their membership in God's family - as Paul's letter to the Corinthians plainly reveals.

In regards to the parable of the building,
and it's materials in 1 Corinthians 3:

Paul says before the parable, "you are God's building."
So we are the materials that make up the building.

The work is not referring to just any kind of general actions of a believer like good fruit (any kind of good fruit) and evil fruit (sin). The work is referring to those believers we bring to the faith and their eternal status with God (i.e. what kind of building materials are they made up of). The Parable is talking about Paul's work (Which is the Corinthians in this instance).

I believe Paul and the other apostles are a part of the foundation with Christ being the chief cornerstone or the ultimate baseline foundation (Ephesians 2:20), and that Paul's work in the gospel are the result of the Corinthians being initially saved by the gospel. However, Paul is now concerned that his labor in the gospel (concerning them) is now in vain because the Corinthians are now working the sins of strife and envying (Note: Paul condemns the sins of strife and envying when writing to the Galatians (Galatians 5:19-21). Paul says that they which do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God). In Galatians 4:11, Paul was concerned for the Galatians in that they were going back to the Old Law so as to be justified or saved. He was concerned that his labor for the gospel was in vain for the Galatians.

So the parable speaks of how his labor for the gospel (concerning the Corinthians) was now possibly in vain for them, too.

#1. The chief cornerstone foundation = Jesus Christ.
#2. Built as a part of the foundation on top of Christ = The apostles (including Paul, etc.) (Ephesians 2:20).
#3. The actual building materials of the tower or building = God's people (In this instance it would be the Corinthians).
#4. The Corinthians would be like: Wood, hay, and stubble in this particular point in time within their life while they abided in their sins of strife, and envying (Which are sins that will cause a person to not inherit the Kingdom of God).
Wood, hay, and stubble are not materials that could survive a fire.
#5. Paul (the soul winner, and builder of the gospel and builder upon the foundation of Jesus Christ) would be saved through the fire (despite his work - i.e. the Corinthians being his work) would be burned up because of their sins. For Paul then says that if any man defiles the temple, God will destroy them (Meaning: God will destroy the Corinthians if they do not repent of their sins). We are the temple of God. Our bodies are the temples of God. If we as believers defile our temples by sin, God will destroy us (i.e. condemn us).​

This is what I believe the parable is saying. The works of Paul that will be burned are the Corinthians if they do not repent of their sins of strife and envy (1 Corinthians 3:3). The Corinthians at this point in time are not saved and they will be burned up in the fire and destroyed by God if they don't seek forgiveness with the Lord and turn from their sins of strife and envy. Paul, the apostles, or the gospel preacher is the one who will be saved through fire if his work (the Corinthians) is burned up (on the account of their justifying sin). The parable is not talking about how a believer can sin and still be saved as long as they have a belief on Jesus. It's actually teaching the exact opposite of that. One cannot build sin as a work upon the foundation of Jesus Christ. Jesus did not advocate sin, and neither did He teach that a person can continue to sin and still be saved.

Yes, we are initially and foundationally saved by God's grace, but believers cannot justify sin, and they have to be fruitful for their Lord and live holy as a part of the Sanctification Process.
For Hebrews 12:14-15 says,

“14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness,
without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;”

Which in no way applies to NT believers whose righteousness is imputed to them from Christ. It is in Christ's perfect righteousness that every genuine believer is clothed, not their own, and it is this righteousness that obtains for them their redemption, justification and sanctification before God (1 Corinthians 1:30). Such righteousness cannot be negated or forgotten of God for it is His own righteousness.

Unfortunately, that is not how things work. You also have to read and believe 1 John 1:7, too.
1 Corinthians 1:30 is addressing the “ye” (you-all) as in reference to... “...them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus,” (1 Corinthians 1:2). 1 Thessalonians 4:3 says, “For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:” So Paul is saying that only those who are sanctified does the promise of 1 Corinthians 1:30 apply. It is the same thing that 1 John 1:7 says. If we walk in the light as He is in the light, the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 2:9-11 by the use of indirect wording says that walking in the light is loving your brother. This truth is confirmed by 1 John 3:10, and 1 John 3:15.

A conclusion catering to your works-salvation thinking rather than to Scripture. See above.

And your conclusion is that believers can sin and still be saved? How again do you identify a tare in Matthew 13? I see them defined as doing iniquity as it states in Matthew 13:41-42. If a believer tells me they can sin and still be saved, then they are doing iniquity or sin. They are justifying evil in God's name. But God's grace is not a license for immorality (Jude 1:4).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It says they are removed because they are "tares," "sons of the evil one," NOT born-again believers. You are making a leap from the former to the latter (illegitimately) because of your doctrinal works-salvation presupposition.

After we are saved by God's grace,
God’s works (done through us) are also required as a part of the Salvation Process:


(Here are a List of Verses):


#1. “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

#2. "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).

#3. "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

#4. "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing," (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

Supplemental verse:

"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).​

#5. "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).

#6. "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).

#7. “...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

Supplemental verses:

(a) “That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” (2 Thessalonians 2:12).

(b) “...and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, Comfort your hearts, and establish you in every good word and work.” (2 Thessalonians 2:16-17).​

#8. “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Romans 8:1).

Supplemental verse:

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).​

#9. "If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema [accursed] Maranatha."(1 Corinthians 16:22).

Supplemental verses:

(a) "If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

(b) “If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10).​

#10. ”And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.” (Luke 10:25-28).

#11. “...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” (Matthew 19:17-19).

#12. "And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:38). ”If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (Matthew 16:24-26).

#13. "...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62) (cf. Luke 8:11-15, 1 Corinthians 4:15).

#14. "But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).

Supplemental verses:

(a) "Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).

(b) “Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.” (James 1:12).

(c) "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).​

#15. “And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:29).

#16. ”And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:12-15).

#17. “For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).

#18. “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” (Philippians 2:12-13).

#19. ”Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” (Matthew 25:34-40).
“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:41-46).

#20. ”His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” (Matthew 25:21).
”And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).

#21. “In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

#22. “He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God” (John 8:47).

#23. “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.” (1 John 1:7) (cf. 1 John 2:9-11).

#24. “For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:20).

#25. “Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.” (Matthew 7:24-27).

#26. “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21).

Supplementary verse:

“For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication” (1 Thessalonians 4:3).​

#27. “And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet [Jesus], shall be destroyed from among the people.” (Acts of the Apostles 3:23).

#28. “I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.’ (John 15:5-6).

Supplementary verses:

(a) “Bring forth therefore fruits befitting for repentance” (Matthew 3:8).

(b) “And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.” (Matthew 3:10).​

#29. “And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.” (1 Peter 4:18-19).

#30. “For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.” (Galatians 6:8-9).

Jesus says who he means and that confines the honest reader to "tares" sown by the devil into God's kingdom, not formerly born-again believers.

Judas was once called a sheep but later he fell away.

In Matthew 10:1, it refers to the twelve disciples.
Jesus tells all twelve of the disciples:

“Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.” (Matthew 10:16).

So Judas being among the twelve is called a sheep at this point in time during Christ's ministry. Note: Yes, I am aware that Matthew the narrator points out how Judas betrayed the Lord Jesus, but he is speaking from past experience while writing about Judas. Nowhere did Judas betray Jesus before Matthew 10.

In 1 Timothy 5, it says this about the believing widows:

11 “But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax 1 wanton 2 against Christ, they will marry;
12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.
13 And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not.
14 I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.
15 For some are already turned 3 aside 4 after Satan.”
(1 Timothy 5:11-15).​

1 wax: grow
2. wanton: wandering from moral right judgment.
3. turned: the act of rotating or a change in movement, direction or thought; to change position or reverse.
4. aside: in a different direction, or out of the way

We see in verse 12 that we are to refuse to provide money for younger widows, because they will grow in wandering away from Christ and they will cast off their first faith as a result of such. Verse 12 is not talking about some past widows but some potential future widows.

Verse 15 says that some have already done this by turning aside after Satan. They changed direction towards Satan. One cannot change direction towards Satan if they are in his possession already. Think. Read the passage again more closely.

This proves that a believer can have salvation and then later lose it.

 

[Hammster]

I will accept Lord Jesus' response to Nicodemus over anyone else.

We are only given Spiritual Life by faith. And Spiritual Life is being born again. Unless you think born again does not mean Spiritual Life?

John 7:37-39 (WEB) 37 Now on the last and greatest day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink! 38 He who believes in me, as the Scripture has said, from within him will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But he said this about the Spirit, which those believing in him were to receive. For the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus wasn’t yet glorified.

John 4:13-14 (WEB)
13 Jesus answered her, “Everyone who drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never thirst again; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life.”

Jesus didn’t say that faith leads to regeneration.

 

[Hammster]

The decision is not the faith that pleases God per se. You can even believe that God exists without "pleasing" Him. Look at Hebrews 11:6 where it says:

"And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him."

So, we have to believe in God's existence and seek Him before we even have that pleasing faith. Making the decision to believe in Jesus does not contradict the unability of humans to please God in the flesh. It is the step we have to take from flesh to spirit.

Right. Without faith it IS impossible to please Him. And faith pleases Him. The question you still haven’t answered is, when you have faith, is it in the flesh or in the Spirit?

 

[Hammster]

Truly, it seems that I must repeat what I've done dozens of times
... list the many NT verses that threaten loss of salvation.

Just as a quick and tasty appetizer ...
People who are (habitual/unrepentant) adulterers
will be cast into the lake of fire!

And some here will say this could NOT possibly apply to BACs.
I say, nonsense!

Your misunderstanding of the texts doesn’t make it so.

 

[Hammster]

There are NO conditions to be initially saved.
Butski, there are conditions to continue to be saved ... because
salvation is a co-operative effort between God and man.
Just for a FUN example ...
If you are a habitual/unrepentant adulterer until death,
thou won't be allowed into heaven
(no matter how much you "believe", have faith, trust, etc. etc.)
Is this a condition, or not?

No, that’s our nature. Even people who live “good” lives and never commit adultery deserve hell apart from being born again.

 

[Hammster]

You are using fleshly wisdom to answer Spiritual things.

There’s no condition to get a new heart, except that you must repent to get it.

Ezekiel 18:30-31 (WEB)
30 Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. 31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit.

Ezekiel 11:18-21 (WEB)
18 “‘They will come there, and they will take away all its detestable things and all its abominations from there (repentance). 19 I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you. I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them a heart of flesh; 20 that they may walk in my statutes, and keep my ordinances, and do them. They will be my people, and I will be their God. 21 But as for them whose heart walks after the heart of their detestable things and their abominations, I will bring their way on their own heads, (those who do not repent)’ says the Lord Yahweh.”

God leaves the choice to repent and receive a new heart and Spirit or to not repent up to each individual.

God regenerates freely only those who believe, and only in the New Testament.

John 5:24 (WEB) 24 “Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and doesn’t come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 8:12 (WEB) 12 Again, therefore, Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. [Isaiah 60:1]. He who follows me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the light of life.

There’s no conditions to stay saved accept the condition to remain faithful to the end to stay saved.

Romans 11:19-22; Revelation 3:1-5; Matthew 24:10; 2 Thessalonians 2:3; 1 Timothy 4:1; Hebrews 3:12; Hebrews 6:6; Hebrews 10:38; 2 Peter 3:17

Blessings

You are misreading this. God told them to get new hearts. Later, in chapter 36, He says He will give them new hearts because they can’t do it themselves. So I’ve shown that you can’t please God in the flesh. You keep putting forth things that people can do that please God, but they are done in the flesh. It just doesn’t work that way.

 

[Hammster]

The context speaks that grace has appeared to all men, meaning grace has appeared to all men of different ages young and old, each sex and different classes free and bond, rich and poor.

All classes. Just like I said.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Acts of the Apostles 3:19 says,

“Repent ye therefore, and be converted,”

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Ezekiel 18:30-31 could not be any clearer.

It says for us to repent, and then we will get a new heart, and a new spirit.

“Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin. Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?” (Ezekiel 18:30-31).

 

[aiki]

Your sudden expansion of the discussion of Matthew 13:38-42 to include reams of other verses from other passages speaks volumes about the tenuousness of your understanding of Matthew 13. If you simply let the immediate context of a passage or verse establish its meaning, you don't have to resort to wall-o'-text tactics and scrambling all over Scripture to make a case for an interpretation of a passage you can't make from the passage (and its immediate context) itself.

I'm assuming, since you've left the field of discussion of Matthew 13:38-42, that you've exhausted your capacity to argue from the passage itself for your view. I doubt, though, you've made the slightest correction to your view of the passage. Which is why it is pointless for me to chase down all the other faulty Scripture interpretations in your last two rather enormous posts. It's an exercise in futility I've attempted before. Not again.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Some believe that going to Mars may be an impossible task. But there are people in existence today who do believe it is possible. If they did work towards their belief in going to Mars, it could be called, the “work of going to Mars.” The belief is then followed by the work. The work is faith in action. For what faith is true where there is no action? This is the why “work of faith” (1 Thessalonians 1:3, 2 Thessalonians 1:11) is a part of the “faith.” It shows one's real commitment to their belief. This is why faith without works is dead. Romans 10:17 says faith comes by hearing the Word of God (i.e. the Bible). So we have to hear or obey everything in our New Testament because it is a part of the faith. We cannot just pick and choose what faith is on our own. If we believe the New Testament, it includes commands or instruction on living righteously (Which is followed after we are saved by God's grace through faith).

 

[timothyu]

Even people who live “good” lives and never commit adultery deserve hell apart from being born again.

Only if they are aware of the alternative to the ways of man.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Your sudden explosion of the discussion of Matthew 13:38-42 to include reams of other verses from other passages speaks volumes about the tenuousness of your understanding of Matthew 13. If you simply let the immediate context of a passage or verse establish its meaning, you don't have to resort to wall-o'-text tactics and scrambling all over Scripture to make a case for an interpretation of a passage you can't make from the passage (and its immediate context) itself.

You made a statement that appeared to attack the Bible's teaching on the “work of faith” (1 Thessalonians 1:3, 2 Thessalonians 1:11) being a part of the “faith” (Which accesses the saving grace of God). So I put down a wall of Scripture for you and or others to dig into on one's own time to show that your belief is simply unbiblical. For information should not be our enemy.

I'm assuming, since you've left the field of discussion of Matthew 13:38-42, that you've exhausted your capacity to argue from the passage itself for your view. I doubt, though, you've made the slightest correction to your view of the passage. Which is why it is pointless for me to chase down all the other faulty Scripture interpretations in your last two rather enormous posts. It's an exercise in futility I've attempted before. Not again.

One cannot isolate a text of Scripture at the expense of the rest of the Bible. We know that believers can fall away into spiritual death according to Scripture and then later become spiritually alive again. The Parable of the Prodigal Son proves this point. When the Son came home to his father and sought forgiveness of his sins in living it up with prostitutes, his father said he was “dead” and he is ”alive AGAIN.” The father said he was lost, and now he is found. Generally when we speak of the lost we are talking about the unsaved. So the parable is speaking in spiritual terms. The prodigal son was dead spiritually when he was living it up with prostitutes, and he became alive again spiritually when he came back home to the father and sought forgiveness of his sins with him. James 5:19-20 teaches a similiar truth, as well. It says to the brethren that if any of them errs from the truth and another faithful brother converts them back (living again in dedication to their life solely to Jesus), we are to let that brother who helped us back to serving the Lord again faithfully know that they helped to save a soul from death (spiritual death) and they helped to cover a multitude of sins (in the fact that they confessed of their sins to the Lord Jesus in coming back in rededication to Him).

With this truth in mind, the tares in the Parable of the Weed could very well be those who went prodigal and never came back to the Lord. They also could be false nominal Christians from the get go, too. We don't know for sure. We just know that they end up in turning out to be tares in the end. Not everyone starts off as a tare but they can end like one. Judas. The believing widows in 1 Timothy 5 who turned aside after Satan. Ananias and Sapphira. The list goes on and on.