He wants EVERYONE saved?

[agua]

I have to understand your position before I can address it. Plus, you never answered my question about the good soil.

Ok it seems we don't communicate well, best leave it be.

God bless My Hamster ( This Faulty Towers episode kills me)

 

[Hammster]

Ok it seems we don't communicate well, best leave it be.

God bless My Hamster ( This Faulty Towers episode kills me)

I'm not seeing the issue here. We would be communicating if you would have answered my question. Then we could have moved on from there. That's how these forums work.

 

[agua]

I'm not seeing the issue here. We would be communicating if you would have answered my question. Then we could have moved on from there. That's how these forums work.

Ok My Hamster I accept we don't communicate well, this happens often on forums like this.

 

[Hammster]

Ok My Hamster I accept we don't communicate well, this happens often on forums like this.

Actually, the only time I see it is when folks get asked questions that they don't want to answer. But then again, I guess that does communicate something.

 

[Avid]

Mat 13:23 KJV But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Now to answer your question. Jesus said that the person who receives the Gospel into good ground is he that understands it. ie. understanding implies good ground which is analogous to the humble and receptive condition of the seeker...

I thought this is a good and very simple explanation. There is much the Bible says about this, but it is important to see this for what the LORD said it was!

Don't be too discouraged by what you see as resistance to these ideas. People resisted the LORD, and that is why He only spake to them in parables after that certain point in time.

 

[agua]

I thought this is a good and very simple explanation. There is much the Bible says about this, but it is important to see this for what the LORD said it was!

Don't be too discouraged by what you see as resistance to these ideas. People resisted the LORD, and that is why He only spake to them in parables after that certain point in time.

I don't get discouraged, at all, Avid.

Thank you for the support.

 

[Hammster]

I thought this is a good and very simple explanation. There is much the Bible says about this, but it is important to see this for what the LORD said it was!

Don't be too discouraged by what you see as resistance to these ideas. People resisted the LORD, and that is why He only spake to them in parables after that certain point in time.

The problem with the explanation is the order. If understanding makes the soil good, what was it prior to the seed being cast? The scripture says the soil the seed was cast upon was good, not became good after the seed was cast.

 

[FredVB]

That didn't answer the question. In fact, I'm not sure what question you are supposedly answering.

I had answered what I saw for a question. But if a question was being asked and answer to it is desired that isn't provided, I don't mind being asked that, to answer. My position is that Yahweh God desired with the eternal plan for how it could be that provision for all to be saved would be available. God is just and gives just consequence for all of sin. God is also gracious, so that any might see enough to respond to God on God's terms, those that respond for that at all God gives more to know, and this works best with believers, such as any of us, led to share more fully God's revelation with the gospel of salvation from God through Christ. But there are many who will not come to responding to God that way, for their own interest in what they would pursue.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Please help me reconcile the following two verses

2 Peter 3:9
Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12
New International Version (NIV)
9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

How can you reconcile "everyone" in the 2 Peter 3 verse with God assurance of condemnation in the 2 Thess. 2 verse?

Greek word used for everyone in 2 Peter is:

πᾶς,a \{pas}
1) individually 1a) each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything 2) collectively 2a) some of all types

The 2a definition seems to allow us to reconcile both verses. Just a thought.

We also see "anyone," which is

τίς,ri \{tis}
1) a certain, a certain one 2) some, some time, a while

So could this be properly translated as:

Instead he is patient with you, not wanting any [of you] to perish, but [all of you] to come to repentance.

Then the question is, who is the audience?!

I think it all comes down to the presuppositions that one holds regarding God and God's purposes. Make an effort to lose the presuppositions and allow the verses to say what they say and the answer become less fraught with difficulties. God wants everybody to come to repentance and God will condemn those who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness. There isn't any contradiction there. But be careful not to squeeze the concept of God down to the size needed to fit into a theology about what God can know or do.

 

[Hammster]

I had answered what I saw for a question. But if a question was being asked and answer to it is desired that isn't provided, I don't mind being asked that, to answer. My position is that Yahweh God desired with the eternal plan for how it could be that provision for all to be saved would be available. God is just and gives just consequence for all of sin. God is also gracious, so that any might see enough to respond to God on God's terms, those that respond for that at all God gives more to know, and this works best with believers, such as any of us, led to share more fully God's revelation with the gospel of salvation from God through Christ. But there are many who will not come to responding to God that way, for their own interest in what they would pursue.

So on Monday, Bob doesn't believe the gospel. On Tuesday, he believes. That is because of God's graciousness?

 

[MoreCoffee]

So on Monday, Bob doesn't believe the gospel. On Tuesday, he believes. That is because of God's graciousness?

Bob lives and moves and has his being because of God's grace (Acts 17:28); surely his state of belief on Tuesday is a blessing from God and a product of grace too (Ephesians 2:8-10).

 

[Hammster]

Bob lives and moves and has his being because of God's grace (Acts 17:28); surely his state of belief on Tuesday is a blessing from God and a product of grace too (Ephesians 2:8-10).

Then why don't all believe?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Then why don't all believe?

It is important not to confuse what God wants with what happens in creation. Clearly the passage says God wants everybody to come to repentance and clearly some people do not.

 

[Hammster]

It is important not to confuse what God wants with what happens in creation. Clearly the passage says God wants everybody to come to repentance and clearly some people do not.

That didn't answer the question. If God's grace is the reason people believe, why don't all believe?

 

[MoreCoffee]

That didn't answer the question. If God's grace is the reason people believe, why don't all believe?

Seems to me that even though God wants all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Timothy 2:4) and since some do not believe we need not worry about why this is so beyond the statements of holy scripture.

John 3:17-21 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.​

 

[Hammster]

Seems to me that even though God wants all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Timothy 2:4) and since some do not believe we need not worry about why this is so beyond the statements of holy scripture.

John 3:17-21 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.​

Yes, some won't believe. But you said grace is why some believe. I want to know, if that's the case, why everyone doesn't believe.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Yes, some won't believe. But you said grace is why some believe. I want to know, if that's the case, why everyone doesn't believe.

I am fairly sure that Ephesians 2:8-10 says that grace is the reason why christians have faith, is that not the case? Those who choose not to believe will have their reasons. John 3:18-21 suggests that for some the reason is their wicked acts keep them away from the light (of the truth).

 

[Hammster]

I am fairly sure that Ephesians 2:8-10 says that grace is the reason why christians have faith, is that not the case? Those who choose not to believe will have their reasons. John 3:18-21 suggests that for some the reason is their wicked acts keep them away from the light (of the truth).

Grace is why believers have faith. That's established. So isn't it logical to assume that if someone doesn't believe, they don't have grace?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Grace is why believers have faith. That's established. So isn't it logical to assume that if someone doesn't believe, they don't have faith?

That is tautological.

 

[Hammster]

That is tautological.

Actually, I just misspoke.

I fixed it.