Having the Holy Spirit, does that mean I am saved?

[Alithis]

Salvation is a person - Jesus Christ - not a life of good works we do. (1 John 5:11-13; John 14:6) This is, for me, the bottom line. When a person is saved they receive Christ in the person of the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:9). He is salvation itself. Too many people are thinking of salvation as some kind of spiritual certification they can earn by various means: good works, abiding in Christ, persevering to the end, etc.. As Scripture makes clear (Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5-6), however, no one can earn or work to obtain the Saviour. He is not a spiritual commodity one can accrue enough spiritual points to possess.

if you love him .the person -the Savior ..you DO what he says .
you can earn what he has already done for us . thats grace - faith is to then take action upon it .
no faith , no belief
no love for him .
he is only coming back for those that "love him" .
people that say they believe in him for salvation but do not do what he said .. do not believe in him at all. because to believe in him is to obey him .

it is ALL entwined , no one part of the gospel message is independent of any other part of the message .
you can take you favorite verse and say "this is the gospel" because that's a lie, being a half truth .. you have to take ALL the Gospel message together .
Jesus is the door it is by him we enter in ..then we must walk as he walked .he is the WAY.

beware dissecting pieces of scripture and inserting them into a preferred tradition and laying that tradition OVER the whole word of God . then not being a doer of the whole word .

 

[JIMINZ]

Here’s a short list of sins. Can you say that you never do any of these things?

http://www.wogim.org/sinlist.htm

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All your doing is quoting LAW, haven't you heard?

Rom. 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Rom. 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Rom. 6:15
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Gal. 5:18
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

 

[BNR32FAN]

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You see right there is your problem, you not understanding what it is your reading, you read something and at the same time interject you own belief on what it is saying rather than understanding what has been said.

Now listen to the words, the very ones you have quoted as a proof of your misunderstanding.

John 15:1,2
1) I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Do you see it, YOU are not the one who can walk away.

It is the Husbandman (The Father) who takes them away, for not producing.

Your reading something into theses Verses which they clearly do not say.

Oh come on are you seriously going to ignore the rest of the verses?

“I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit, he taketh it away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he cleanseth it, that it may bear more fruit. Already ye are clean because of the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; so neither can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit: for apart from me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatsoever ye will, and it shall be done unto you. Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; and so shall ye be my disciples. Even as the Father hath loved me, I also have loved you: abide ye in my love.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:1-9‬

 

[JIMINZ]

Who never sins?

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Do you believe what Jesus said isn't true?

John 8:34
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

 

[BNR32FAN]

.
All your doing is quoting LAW, haven't you heard?

Rom. 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Rom. 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Rom. 6:15
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Gal. 5:18
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

I haven’t said anything about the law I said it is different to stumble in sin than to be a slave to sin. Then you replied and said if anyone commits a sin they are a slave to sin. If anything your the one quoting the law. So I’ll ask my question again. Do you ever sin?

 

[JIMINZ]

Oh come on are you seriously going to ignore the rest of the verses?

“I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit, he taketh it away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he cleanseth it, that it may bear more fruit. Already ye are clean because of the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; so neither can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit: for apart from me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatsoever ye will, and it shall be done unto you. Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; and so shall ye be my disciples. Even as the Father hath loved me, I also have loved you: abide ye in my love.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:1-9‬

It is clear to me, you do not understand the verses you are attempting to use as some sort of proof, against OSAS.

Therefore you are trying to make them say something they are clearly not saying.

I have already shown you where you were wrong, it does not tale all 10 verses to prove it.

You have a Misinterpretation and understanding.

 

[BNR32FAN]

It is clear to me, you do not understand the verses you are attempting to use as some sort of proof, against OSAS.

Therefore you are trying to make them say something they are clearly not saying.

I have already shown you where you were wrong, it does not tale all 10 verses to prove it.

You have a Misinterpretation and understanding.

No now you are ignoring the scriptures that refute OSAS. so who is cast into the fire in verse 6 and why?

“If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:6‬ ‭

 

[JIMINZ]

I haven’t said anything about the law I said it is different to stumble in sin than to be a slave to sin. Then you replied and said if anyone commits a sin they are a slave to sin. If anything your the one quoting the law. So I’ll ask my question again. Do you ever sin?

.

I didn't say it, Jesus did.

John 8:34
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

This wasn't an argument from me, it is a fact quoted from Jesus, your trying to refute what Jesus said, not me.

You said everything about the Law, with your link.
http://www.wogim.org/sinlist.htm

 

[BNR32FAN]

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I didn't say it, Jesus did.

John 8:34
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

This wasn't an argument from me, it is a fact quoted from Jesus, your trying to refute what Jesus said, not me.

You said everything about the Law, with your link.
http://www.wogim.org/sinlist.htm

Yup as I expected still dodging the question. Every Christian sins. But not every Christian makes a habit of sinning. We could argue about the definition of the word poiéō but I don’t think that would do any good.

 

[JIMINZ]

No now you are ignoring the scriptures that refute OSAS. so who is cast into the fire in verse 6 and why?

“If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:6‬ ‭

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They do not refute anything Just as I have already shown you.
Repeating your error 10 times will still make it error.

Those who the Father has taken away from the vine, those who did not produce FRUIT.....They are burned.

 

[JIMINZ]

Yup as I expected still dodging the question. Every Christian sins. But not every Christian makes a habit of sinning. We could argue about the definition of the word poiéō but I don’t think that would do any good.

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I see you have begun with a misunderstanding of Scripture, which will never bring you to the truth.

You can cut the Adhominem it doesn't work.

 

[BNR32FAN]

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They do not refute anything Just as I have already shown you.
Repeating your error 10 times will still make it error.

Those who the Father has taken away from the vine, those who did not produce FRUIT.....Those are burned.

So why did Jesus tell the 11 apostles excluding Judas to remain in Him?

 

[BNR32FAN]

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I see you have begun with a misunderstanding of Scripture, which will never bring you to the truth.

You can cut the Hyperbole it doesn't work.

Why can’t you simply admit that you still sin even tho your a Christian? There’s no shame in it. Everyone will fail. This is exactly why Jesus had to die on the cross. Otherwise no one would be in heaven except God. Oh and the angels.

 

[JIMINZ]

So why did Jesus tell the 11 apostles excluding Judas to remain in Him?

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Because that is the way YOU read it, when that is not what He was saying.

Your interpretation is in error.

 

[BNR32FAN]

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Because that is the way YOU read it, when that is not what He was saying.

Your interpretation is in error.

But you continuously refuse to explain how these verses can be true and not contradict OSAS. I believed in OSAS and it was hard for me to accept at first. But I realized I was wrong. Just ask yourself what’s more important being right or acknowledging the truth?

 

[BNR32FAN]

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Because that is the way YOU read it, when that is not what He was saying.

Your interpretation is in error.

Think about it. It’s night time any only Jesus and His 11 apostles are with Him. Judas has already gone to betray Him. And Jesus says to His apostles remain in me and I will remain in you. He is warning His apostles to continue to produce fruit and to abide in Him after He is gone.

 

[JIMINZ]

Why can’t you simply admit that you still sin even tho your a Christian? There’s no shame in it. Everyone will fail. This is exactly why Jesus had to die on the cross. Otherwise no one would be in heaven except God. Oh and the angels.

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OK, don't give me all the sins a Christian is capable of committing, just very simply tell me.
1) How does a Christian sin.
2) What is it, that causes a Christian to sin.

We all know that sin is the transgression (breaking) of the Law.

1Jn. 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

We also know that sin, is the only thing which separates us from God.

 

[JIMINZ]

But you continuously refuse to explain how these verses can be true and not contradict OSAS. I believed in OSAS and it was hard for me to accept at first. But I realized I was wrong. Just ask yourself what’s more important being right or acknowledging the truth?

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Don't get me wrong, theses verses are absolutely true, I am not saying they are not.

What I am saying is, you are mistaken in your Interpretation of them.

If you once believed in OSAS and now you don't, then just what was it that changed your Mind, Understanding, Belief?

 

[Hazelelponi]

Has anyone not noticed we are talking about real human beings, not theological positions..

These are real people with real problems who sometimes need to be reminded that Jesus will forgive us as much as we forgive others, that he will forgive us as much as it takes for us to get it right. The goal? To make it to salvation..

We should be clinging to God all the way to the end of our lives, but there is as much need of repentance for the one who says they have no sin than the one who says they need to go to God in humility and repentance..

Jesus came to save sinners. Those certain of their own righteousness died without a Saviour..

 

[Alithis]

Actually James 2:14-26 explains this. James mentions two types of faith. A saving faith that produces works and a dead and useless faith that does not produce works and is not a saving faith. We are not saved by the works but by the type of faith that produces works. A faith that produces works is a true and genuine faith. A faith that does not produce works is not a genuine faith. The word faith is translated from the Greek word pistis which not only means to believe but also faithfulness, trustworthiness, fidelity, and loyalty. This has to do with our devotion to God. Devotion is not works it is sincerity. Our works are not attributed to us because they are from the Holy Spirit so that others may see God’s glory. Our works are attributed to God although we do receive rewards in heaven according to our deeds. Salvation being from God’s grace cannot be earned.

paul also speaks of this when he speaks of Israel receiving the law -but it was not coupled with faith so was ineffectual in them and did not bring the life but death
its the same thing .
any message from God, not coupled with faith, ( faith being an action taken )does not bring about the purposed end .