Having the Holy Spirit, does that mean I am saved?

[JIMINZ]

I don't think this is the whole truth. Jesus died for us so we would be free from living in sin, and instead live a righteous life.

He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. (1 pet 2:24)

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That sounds good, but The Scripture didn't say that.

When you begin to add things to what Scripture says your in Deception.

Besides, Dying to Sin, and free from living in Sin are two different things.

 

[aiki]

The wind (faith) does not require the leaves (works). As I pointed out James 2:14-26 and John 15:1-10 both say that works are necessary for salvation.

No, James does not say that works are necessary to salvation. He only says that true, saving faith inevitably produces good works. If a person claims to have faith in Christ, it will show up in how they live. But it does not follow - at all - that therefore works are essential to salvation. Think of it this way: If one buys a lawnmower, it is, obviously, with the intent of mowing the lawn. And being in possession of a working lawnmower, it is inevitable that when the lawn needs cutting, one will use the lawnmower to cut it. But if one never ended up using one's lawnmower, would one no longer possess the lawnmower? Of course not. One is still the owner of a lawnmower regardless of whether one actually uses it to mow one's lawn. Mowing the lawn, then, is inevitable if one owns a lawnmower, and the mower works, and the grass needs mowing, but mowing the lawn is not necessary to owning the lawnmower. In the same way, good works are inevitable when one has saving faith, but they aren't necessary to it. If a person was saved at noon on Tuesday, but before he had time to do any good works, was put into a coma an hour later in a car accident , would that person still be saved? Of course. This was essentially the circumstance of the thief on the cross to whom Jesus said, "Today you shall be with me in paradise." He had no time to do any good works. He confessed Christ as Lord and died. But despite this fact, he was still going, not to Hell, but to paradise. As Scripture so often declares, then, faith is necessary to salvation, not good works. (Romans 3:22-28; Galatians 3:11; Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5-6, etc.)

I have already clearly explained in a past post why John 15:1-5 does not serve a works-salvation (or saved and lost) doctrine. The addition of another five verses does not refute my explanation.

I can just see it now how you will claim I’m saying that salvation is a result of works. No that’s not what I’m saying at all

Yes, it is - regardless of your bizarre claims to the contrary. Any time you add works to the obtaining or maintenance of your salvation, it is your works, ultimately, not Christ, that is the means of your salvation.

I’m saying that both Jesus and His brother James are saying works are necessary for salvation.

Neither of them actually say this - as I've shown.

 

[BNR32FAN]

No, James does not say that works are necessary to salvation. He only says that true, saving faith inevitably produces good works. If a person claims to have faith in Christ, it will show up in how they live. But it does not follow - at all - that therefore works are essential to salvation. Think of it this way: If one buys a lawnmower, it is, obviously, with the intent of mowing the lawn. And being in possession of a working lawnmower, it is inevitable that when the lawn needs cutting, one will use the lawnmower to cut it. But if one never ended up using one's lawnmower, would one no longer possess the lawnmower? Of course not. One is still the owner of a lawnmower regardless of whether one actually uses it to mow one's lawn. Mowing the lawn, then, is inevitable if one owns a lawnmower, and the mower works, and the grass needs mowing, but mowing the lawn is not necessary to owning the lawnmower. In the same way, good works are inevitable when one has saving faith, but they aren't necessary to it. If a person was saved at noon on Tuesday, but before he had time to do any good works, was put into a coma an hour later in a car accident , would that person still be saved? Of course. This was essentially the circumstance of the thief on the cross to whom Jesus said, "Today you shall be with me in paradise." He had no time to do any good works. He confessed Christ as Lord and died. But despite this fact, he was still going, not to Hell, but to paradise. As Scripture so often declares, then, faith is necessary to salvation, not good works. (Romans 3:22-28; Galatians 3:11; Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5-6, etc.)

I have already clearly explained in a past post why John 15:1-5 does not serve a works-salvation (or saved and lost) doctrine. The addition of another five verses does not refute my explanation.



Yes, it is - regardless of your bizarre claims to the contrary. Any time you add works to the obtaining or maintenance of your salvation, it is your works, ultimately, not Christ, that is the means of your salvation.



Neither of them actually say this - as I've shown.

You should really just stop with the analogies just like your last analogy it is completely wrong and doesn’t fit the situation. In your analogy there is no salvation. Nothing to represent salvation. Add the condition of the yard to represent salvation then you’ll have an accurate analogy. The end result if you don’t use the lawnmower is the yard still looks terrible and owning the lawnmower is useless. It is of no benefit. James specifically says CAN THAT TYPE OF FATH SAVE HIM? Where is the trustworthiness in your definition of faith? Where is the fidelity? You are confusing pusteuo with pistis. Where is the character of one who can be relied on? You speak as if faith is nothing more than believing and trusting in God. That is not pistis that’s pisteuo. You said before that abide is the same as saved. Abide means remain or stay. Jesus is telling His apostles if they produce fruit they are remaining or staying in Him. If they don’t produce fruit they are not remaining in Him and they will be cut off from Him. They will lose their salvation. This doesn’t mean they can’t still repent and be grafted back into the vine. It just means if they don’t repent they will be thrown in the fire & burned. James is mentioning wheat and tares Jesus is not. He is speaking only to His 11 faithful apostles.

 

[aiki]

You should really just stop with the analogies just like your last analogy it is completely wrong and doesn’t fit the situation.

For some reason you seem to think merely saying an analogy is wrong makes it so. It doesn't. Your negative opinion is not sufficient to make my analogies "wrong." I think they make my points very well and, so far, you haven't demonstrated that they don't.

In your analogy there is no salvation. Nothing to represent salvation

My point was about the difference between something being inevitable and it being necessary. You seem to think good works are necessary to salvation when they are, in fact, only inevitable. That you seem unable to grasp this difference isn't the fault of my very simple and clear analogy.

Add the condition of the yard to represent salvation then you’ll have an accurate analogy. The end result if you don’t use the lawnmower is the yard still looks terrible and owning the lawnmower is useless. It is of no benefit.

You've quite missed the point of my analogy.

James specifically says CAN THAT TYPE OF FATH SAVE HIM? Where is the trustworthiness in your definition of faith? Where is the fidelity? You are confusing pusteuo with pistis.

No, I'm not. I have not, thus far, given you a full definition of faith.

Where is the trustworthiness in your definition of faith? Where is the fidelity? You are confusing pusteuo with pistis. Where is the character of one who can be relied on? You speak as if faith is nothing more than believing and trusting in God. That is not pistis that’s pisteuo.

"Pistis" is a noun, "pisteuo," a verb. They are closely related insofar as "pistis" gives rise to "pisteuo."

You said before that abide is the same as saved. Abide means remain or stay. Jesus is telling His apostles if they produce fruit they are remaining or staying in Him.

This is entirely wrong. Jesus did not equate producing fruit with abiding. He very clearly indicated that abiding in him produces fruitfulness.

John 15:4-5
4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
5 I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.

Again, you confuse cause with effect. It is because the born-again are abiding in Christ that they produce spiritual fruit. Abiding gives rise to spiritual fruitfulness.

If they don’t produce fruit they are not remaining in Him and they will be cut off from Him. They will lose their salvation.

This is not what Jesus said, as I've already explained. And so far, all you've done is assert a different view rather than refute my interpretation. Until you actually refute my view, however, no amount of assertions of a different view will negate mine.

 

[BNR32FAN]

For some reason you seem to think merely saying an analogy is wrong makes it so. It doesn't. Your negative opinion is not sufficient to make my analogies "wrong." I think they make my points very well and, so far, you haven't demonstrated that they don't.



My point was about the difference between something being inevitable and it being necessary. You seem to think good works are necessary to salvation when they are, in fact, only inevitable. That you seem unable to grasp this difference isn't the fault of my very simple and clear analogy.



You've quite missed the point of my analogy.



No, I'm not. I have not, thus far, given you a full definition of faith.



"Pistis" is a noun, "pisteuo," a verb. They are closely related insofar as "pistis" gives rise to "pisteuo."



This is entirely wrong. Jesus did not equate producing fruit with abiding. He very clearly indicated that abiding in him produces fruitfulness.

John 15:4-5
4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
5 I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.

Again, you confuse cause with effect. It is because the born-again are abiding in Christ that they produce spiritual fruit. Abiding gives rise to spiritual fruitfulness.



This is not what Jesus said, as I've already explained. And so far, all you've done is assert a different view rather than refute my interpretation. Until you actually refute my view, however, no amount of assertions of a different view will negate mine.

Your analogies aren’t coinciding with the scriptures. Why did Jesus warn His apostles to produce fruit and abide in Him? Because they can still fall from grace if they choose to turn to a worldly life. If they couldn’t turn away from Him and couldn’t choose not to produce fruit it would be a useless message. They must be faith and trustworthy in order to have a saving faith otherwise it’s not pistis it’s pusteuo (believing). James says even demons believe and they tremble in fear. satan believes but he was cast out of heaven because he didn’t serve God. he rebelled against God which is to say he did not abide in God.