Having the Holy Spirit, does that mean I am saved?

[Alithis]

How would it be possible to "lose" your salvation and still be indwelled by the Holy Spirit?

you just decided to ignore scripture on the topic ? ..the holy Spirit does not need saving .

 

[Alithis]

.
This is a backdoor OSAS Theology.

It makes little sense to be saved apart from works only to remain saved by them. This is just works-salvation one step removed. Both Ephesians 2:8-9 and Titus 3:5-6 absolutely and explicitly reject salvation by means of our works, however.

and that is true ..because by what works was salvation made available to us since before we were born and while still dead in sin ,Christ died for us . thus salvation is made available to us -that -is the grace of GOD .
to avail ourselves of that grace we must Do as the one who came to save us says to do ...
thus obedience to the good news is essential .
its BOTH its ALWAYS been BOTH grace AND action . because by grace are you saved -(that which GOD has done completely outside of any hope of effort by us) Through Faith .. (that which we DO because we believe what God has done for us .) for we are HIS workmanship created unto good works (righteous actions of godly love) which he has for ordained that we should walk in them (because he created us to be creatures of love and goodness in whom he dwells and has has redeemed us to return us to being ,just that )- " SO , if we then walk in our freedom using it to do Unrighteous unloving selfish self gratifying for pleasure actions .. we are not becoming what he has saved us to be . we are unfruitful even though we have received the same rain .. we will be cast out , burnt up , cut off gathered up and burned with all the rest .
the joy is that he truly has set us free so we need not fear this we need only love him and the evidence of true love for God is our obedience to the Holy Spirit of the Lord Jesus ,the Christ .

 

[JacksBratt]

you just decided to ignore scripture on the topic ? ..the holy Spirit does not need saving .

Where did I say that it did?

 

[aiki]

and that is true ..because by what works was salvation made available to us since before we were born and while still dead in sin ,Christ died for us . thus salvation is made available to us -that -is the grace of GOD .

It isn't just that salvation is made available to us, but that it is obtained only by grace, through faith in Christ. He is our salvation; he is our justification; he is our sanctification; he is our life.

to avail ourselves of that grace we must Do as the one who came to save us says to do ...
thus obedience to the good news is essential .

Receiving by faith what Christ has already done for us is not work, however. We obey, not to save ourselves, but to be saved by our Saviour.

its BOTH its ALWAYS been BOTH grace AND action .

No, it has not. We are not saved by our action but by the power of the One in whom we put our trust. Read Titus 3:5-6.

Through Faith .. (that which we DO because we believe what God has done for us .)

But it is not our faith but its object that has saving power. One could have enormous, unshakeable faith in the Easter Bunny but one will never be saved by that faith.

we are HIS workmanship created unto good works (righteous actions of godly love) which he has for ordained that we should walk in them (because he created us to be creatures of love and goodness in whom he dwells and has has redeemed us to return us to being ,just that )- "

Good fruit is the natural result of being indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Our good works manifest our spiritual regeneration that we have obtained through Christ. But those good works never secure or preserve our spiritual regeneration; for being born-again was not and is not contingent upon what we do but upon in whom we put our trust.

SO , if we then walk in our freedom using it to do Unrighteous unloving selfish self gratifying for pleasure actions .. we are not becoming what he has saved us to be . we are unfruitful even though we have received the same rain .. we will be cast out , burnt up , cut off gathered up and burned with all the rest .

But such people could not have been genuinely saved in the first place. As Scripture makes plain, one in whom the Holy Spirit dwells very naturally and inevitably lives in accord with his leading (Romans 8:14) and in reflection of his transforming work (Galatians 5:22-23). Anyone who claims to be saved but never evidences the life-changing effects of the indwelling Holy Spirit at all has never been truly saved.

 

[zoidar]

But such people could not have been genuinely saved in the first place. As Scripture makes plain, one in whom the Holy Spirit dwells very naturally and inevitably lives in accord with his leading (Romans 8:14) and in reflection of his transforming work (Galatians 5:22-23). Anyone who claims to be saved but never evidences the life-changing effects of the indwelling Holy Spirit at all has never been truly saved.

It's easy to say about others if they start living in sin, they never were saved. But what if you or I start living in sin, would you say the same thing about yourself? Couldn't happen, sure, happened to me.

There is a reason the Bible warns us, satan is out there like a roaring lion.

"Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour."
/1 Pet 5:8

 

[Alithis]

It isn't just that salvation is made available to us, but that it is obtained only by grace, through faith in Christ. He is our salvation; he is our justification; he is our sanctification; he is our life.



Receiving by faith what Christ has already done for us is not work, however. We obey, not to save ourselves, but to be saved by our Saviour.



No, it has not. We are not saved by our action but by the power of the One in whom we put our trust. Read Titus 3:5-6.



But it is not our faith but its object that has saving power. One could have enormous, unshakeable faith in the Easter Bunny but one will never be saved by that faith.



Good fruit is the natural result of being indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Our good works manifest our spiritual regeneration that we have obtained through Christ. But those good works never secure or preserve our spiritual regeneration; for being born-again was not and is not contingent upon what we do but upon in whom we put our trust.



But such people could not have been genuinely saved in the first place. As Scripture makes plain, one in whom the Holy Spirit dwells very naturally and inevitably lives in accord with his leading (Romans 8:14) and in reflection of his transforming work (Galatians 5:22-23). Anyone who claims to be saved but never evidences the life-changing effects of the indwelling Holy Spirit at all has never been truly saved.

i will keep it simply for you ... if some one is sent to save you from a perilous situation.. it pays TO DO what he says you must do so he can save you . stop doing it half way through and you will perish .

faith is the action we take based upon what we believe . no action no faith no action no belief -they are entwined .. its never grace without faith . for the same truth was given to Israel but not being coupled with faith it did not bring life to them - thats a new testament reminder for us . it does not mater how much a person "says with their mouth " they believe (they may as well chant i believe in fairies) it is those WHO DO the will of the father that have faith in God . not those who say it but do nothing .
they are like a man standing on a road while some one shouts to them get off the road a truck is coming ..they say yes yes they believe that - but they do not take the action of getting off the road . they will not be saved from the truck hitting them ,no matter how much they profess belief because when one believes from the heart One rises up and DOES what the one sent to save us says to do . anything less is unbelief and rebellion .

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

How do you see the couple in Acts 5?

The fear of the church at the time should indicate that they had salvation but as a result of a lie they lost their life immediately. Would this mean they also lost salvation or was their seat in Heaven secured?

they were part of the visible church but there's nothing saying they were truly born again or not.

the fact that they were taken away in the manner they were could indicate that they weren't truly in Christ but just one of those who professed faith outwardly.

 

[Hazelelponi]

What is your understanding? I'm not talking here about enduring to the end, but are we saved as long as we have the Holy Spirit? So please don't make this into a OSAS debate. God bless!

Romans 8:9
"However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him."

Ok, being in the Spirit means you have the Holy Spirit and Romans 8:9 says if you don't have the Holy Spirit you aren't saved, but it doesn't say that if you have the Holy Spirit you are. On the contrary reading Romans 8:12-13 it seems having the Spirit is not equal with being saved if we not live by the Spirit.

"So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh-- for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live."

I've not read any posts in this thread. But I will answer.

The indwelling of the Holy Spirit and salvation go hand in hand and you can't have one without the other.

The Holy Spirit is the guarantor of our salvation. Ephesians 1:13-14

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--to the praise of his glory.

The two, salvation and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, go hand in hand. If someone believes they've been filled with the Spirit and never accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior then I'd consider it was demonic possession and not the Holy Spirit indwelling them.

Conversely, I'd say the same in reverse. If someone says they accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior but don't have the Holy Spirit then I'd be inclined to believe their belief in Jesus life, death, and resurrection and subsequent acceptance of Jesus as Lord wasn't based in Truth.

 

[aiki]

It's easy to say about others if they start living in sin, they never were saved. But what if you or I start living in sin, would you say the same thing about yourself? Couldn't happen, sure, happened to me.

There is a reason the Bible warns us, satan is out there like a roaring lion.

"Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour."
/1 Pet 5:8

I don't mean to condemn you. But I do want to be biblical. And the Bible is very clear that a person who makes a practice of sin and who evidences none of the marks of genuine salvation is not actually saved. If that's you, I'm sorry to know it.

Matthew 7:17-18
17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.

 

[BNR32FAN]

What is your understanding? I'm not talking here about enduring to the end, but are we saved as long as we have the Holy Spirit? So please don't make this into a OSAS debate. God bless!

Romans 8:9
"However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him."

Ok, being in the Spirit means you have the Holy Spirit and Romans 8:9 says if you don't have the Holy Spirit you aren't saved, but it doesn't say that if you have the Holy Spirit you are. On the contrary reading Romans 8:12-13 it seems having the Spirit is not equal with being saved if we not live by the Spirit.

"So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh-- for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live."

Salvation is dependent opon a person abiding in Christ at the end. A person can’t be saved then not saved. They can however be on the path towards salvation then stray off of that path. God has written the names of those who are victorious at the end in the book of life. Meaning they abide in Christ at the time of their death or Jesus’ second coming. The book of life was written before creation. God has foreseen who will be victorious at the end. So the book will not be edited. No names will be added or removed because God has foreseen all. He knew our outcome even before creation.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I've not read any posts in this thread. But I will answer.

The indwelling of the Holy Spirit and salvation go hand in hand and you can't have one without the other.

The Holy Spirit is the guarantor of our salvation. Ephesians 1:13-14

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--to the praise of his glory.

The two, salvation and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, go hand in hand. If someone believes they've been filled with the Spirit and never accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior then I'd consider it was demonic possession and not the Holy Spirit indwelling them.

Conversely, I'd say the same in reverse. If someone says they accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior but don't have the Holy Spirit then I'd be inclined to believe their belief in Jesus life, death, and resurrection and subsequent acceptance of Jesus as Lord wasn't based in Truth.

“For it is impossible to bring back to repentance those who were once enlightened—those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come— and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people back to repentance; by rejecting the Son of God, they themselves are nailing him to the cross once again and holding him up to public shame. When the ground soaks up the falling rain and bears a good crop for the farmer, it has God’s blessing. But if a field bears thorns and thistles, it is useless. The farmer will soon condemn that field and burn it.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:4-8‬

This doesn’t say those who thought they shared in the Holy Spirit. This is referring to someone who has shared in the Holy Spirit. John 15:1-10 is another example.

 

[aiki]

i will keep it simply for you ... if some one is sent to save you from a perilous situation.. it pays TO DO what he says you must do so he can save you . stop doing it half way through and you will perish .

But this makes you the author of your salvation. It is your doing whatever all the way through that ensures you are saved. This is essentially works-salvation which the Bible denies. What's more, scripture is quite clear that you do nothing except receive by faith what Christ has already done for you. Doing so is not a work you do any more than receiving a blood transfusion during an operation is a work you do.

faith is the action we take based upon what we believe . no action no faith no action no belief -they are entwined .. its never grace without faith .

Faith may result in action but faith is not the resulting action itself. Thinking that it is confuses cause with effect. Gravity may cause a plane to crash to the ground but gravity is not the plane itself crashing to the ground; wind may blow leaves across a lawn but those leaves tossing and tumbling through the air are not the wind itself. In the same way, faith may provoke us to corresponding action but faith is not that action itself.

for the same truth was given to Israel but not being coupled with faith it did not bring life to them

??? Even when Israel was in its most wicked rebellion, the nation was still God's special Chosen People; even when the Israelites came to the borders of Canaan and doubted God's promise that it was theirs and ended up wandering in the wilderness for forty years, they were still God's Chosen People.

thats a new testament reminder for us . it does not mater how much a person "says with their mouth " they believe (they may as well chant i believe in fairies) it is those WHO DO the will of the father that have faith in God . not those who say it but do nothing .

I agree. Real, saving faith always results in corresponding action. This is what the apostle James was going on about in chapter 2 of his letter.

 

[aiki]

Salvation is a person - Jesus Christ - not a life of good works we do. (1 John 5:11-13; John 14:6) This is, for me, the bottom line. When a person is saved they receive Christ in the person of the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:9). He is salvation itself. Too many people are thinking of salvation as some kind of spiritual certification they can earn by various means: good works, abiding in Christ, persevering to the end, etc.. As Scripture makes clear (Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5-6), however, no one can earn or work to obtain the Saviour. He is not a spiritual commodity one can accrue enough spiritual points to possess.

 

[Hazelelponi]

“For it is impossible to bring back to repentance those who were once enlightened—those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come— and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people back to repentance; by rejecting the Son of God, they themselves are nailing him to the cross once again and holding him up to public shame. When the ground soaks up the falling rain and bears a good crop for the farmer, it has God’s blessing. But if a field bears thorns and thistles, it is useless. The farmer will soon condemn that field and burn it.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:4-8‬

This doesn’t say those who thought they shared in the Holy Spirit. This is referring to someone who has shared in the Holy Spirit. John 15:1-10 is another example.

That wasn't the question.

The question was can someone have the Holy Spirit and be saved, in the present tense (not past tense).

If you, as you point out, lose your salvation do you think the Holy Spirit sticks around? Or do you think God casts you out and abandons you to your own desires? (Hence, your body ceases to be a temple of the living God.)

 

[zoidar]

I don't mean to condemn you. But I do want to be biblical. And the Bible is very clear that a person who makes a practice of sin and who evidences none of the marks of genuine salvation is not actually saved. If that's you, I'm sorry to know it.

Matthew 7:17-18
17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.

I agree, but that person may have been saved.

The question is really if a person goes back to this kind of life after being saved, is the Holy Spirit still in him? Maybe a quenched Holy Spirit? Or has the Holy Spirit left?

I'm of the belief that the Holy Spirit won't leave unless you blaspheme him. But having the Holy Spirit won't save you if you live an unrighteous life. The Holy Spirit makes it possible to walk in the light, but you can choose to walk in darkness.

 

[zoidar]

It makes little sense to be saved apart from works only to remain saved by them. This is just works-salvation one step removed. Both Ephesians 2:8-9 and Titus 3:5-6 absolutely and explicitly reject salvation by means of our works, however.

Thank you for pinpointing it for me ... Actually I think you describe exactly how it is:

You are not saved by works but by faith, but you remain saved by works. No works and your faith is counted as dead.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That wasn't the question.

The question was can someone have the Holy Spirit and be saved, in the present tense (not past tense).

If you, as you point out, lose your salvation do you think the Holy Spirit sticks around? Or do you think God casts you out and abandons you to your own desires? (Hence, your body ceases to be a temple of the living God.)

Yes I answered the question in a previous post. I believe I may have misunderstood your position. I thought your reference to Ephesians was suggesting that once we receive the Holy Spirit we are sealed into salvation. Many OSAS believers often use this passage to support their belief. Please forgive my mistake.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Thank you for pinpointing it for me ... Actually I think you describe exactly how it is:

You are not saved by works, but remain saved by works. No works and your faith is counted as dead.

Actually James 2:14-26 explains this. James mentions two types of faith. A saving faith that produces works and a dead and useless faith that does not produce works and is not a saving faith. We are not saved by the works but by the type of faith that produces works. A faith that produces works is a true and genuine faith. A faith that does not produce works is not a genuine faith. The word faith is translated from the Greek word pistis which not only means to believe but also faithfulness, trustworthiness, fidelity, and loyalty. This has to do with our devotion to God. Devotion is not works it is sincerity. Our works are not attributed to us because they are from the Holy Spirit so that others may see God’s glory. Our works are attributed to God although we do receive rewards in heaven according to our deeds. Salvation being from God’s grace cannot be earned.

 

[BNR32FAN]

How would it be possible to "lose" your salvation and still be indwelled by the Holy Spirit?

The Holy Spirit led everyone to believe to begin with before they believed. Without the Holy Spirit we would never have the ability to repent and turn to God. Even tho some may turn away from God they can always turn back because the Holy Spirit still gives them the ability to do so.

 

[BNR32FAN]

.
Then the answer is a simple one, if you do not believe in OSAS you can lose your Salvation, but if you believe in OSAS you cannot, ......Simple?

Now, if you really don't want to lose your Salvation, then you had better study what OSAS really means, not what you might believe now, or even what people might have told or taught you OSAS was all about, because your assumptions are wrong.

OSAS contradicts John 15:1-10. Can you please explain your interpretation of John 15:1-10?