Haven't You Moved Pass Leviticus?

[davedjy]

The old Law has been abolished. Why do you keep quoting Leviticus for "proof" homosexality is a sin?
That was an idolatry/cult practice condemned anyways.

Romans 7:6-

6But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

Threads are being made a mile a minute here right now eh?

 

[ContentInHim]

The old Law has been abolished. Why do you keep quoting Leviticus for "proof" homosexality is a sin?
That was an idolatry/cult practice condemned anyways.

Romans 7:6-

6But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

Show me that you've died to what bound you by belief in Jesus Christ and I'll agree that you're not bound by the law - you'll have it on your heart and obey it without even blinking!

 

[RMDY]

The old Law has been abolished. Why do you keep quoting Leviticus for "proof" homosexality is a sin?
That was an idolatry/cult practice condemned anyways.

Romans 7:6-

6But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

Jesus himself also says he didn't come to abolish the law but to fillfill it. We are not obligated to the old covenant but to the new one. The old law also defines God's character and what he considers to be sinful.
Have you also read Acts15 and Timothy?

The new covenant laid out rebukes against homosexuality, other sexual immoralities, false doctrines and other ungodly things.

 

[BereanTodd]

In case you missed it, regardless of any discussion of the validity of the Levitical law or any part thereof, the NT also condemns homosexuality.

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

In case you missed it, regardless of any discussion of the validity of the Levitical law or any part thereof, the NT also condemns homosexuality.

Actually it doesn't. But you reading it that way is certainly good for you.

 

[davedjy]

Actually it doesn't. But you reading it that way is certainly good for you.

Exactly!!!

Here is some reading material for those of you who don't understand:

http://www.opendoorcenter.com/myths_&_facts.htm

 

[RMDY]

Exactly!!!

Here is some reading material for those of you who don't understand:

http://www.opendoorcenter.com/myths_&_facts.htm

God destroyed Soddom for its sinfulness and its destestable acts.

In Moses Law, God declares that same-gender-sex is detestable.

Care to explain this?

 

[davedjy]

God destroyed Soddom for its sinfulness and its destestable acts.

In Moses Law, God declares that same-gender-sex is detestable.

Care to explain this?

That is not true. That is a cult-idolatry ritual violation that is being talked about in Leviticus. That old law has been ABOLISHED, read your Bible...Romans 7:6.

Please do research before debating here.

 

[BereanTodd]

I'm so sorry that apparently Romans 1 was removed from your Bibles guys, but you may want to try and find one that includes it ...

 

[davedjy]

I'm so sorry that apparently Romans 1 was removed from your Bibles guys, but you may want to try and find one that includes it ...

FACT: It is interesting, to say the least, that despite homosexuality being looked on as the "vilest of sins," as it is so often referred to, Jesus never mentioned it! Furthermore, as was already mentioned, the words "homosexual" or "homosexuality" did not exist in the original Greek and Aramaic languages of the New Testament. There are only three passages of Scripture in the N.T. which have been cited in reference to homosexuality. The first is Romans, Chapter 1. In this passage, the Apostle Paul gives a very specific list of characteristics describing those in question: He describes them as those who once knew God, but who chose not to honor God as God. Instead, they worshiped material images of human beings, birds, animals, and reptiles as objects of worship rather than the One True Living God. We are told that they were filled with EVERY kind of wickedness, evil, covetousness, and malice. They were full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, craftiness, gossip, slander, insolence, haughtiness, and boastfulness. They were inventors of evil, rebellious toward parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, and ruthless. (NRSV) As a result of their total depravity, God turned them over to complete spiritual ruin, so that they left no stone of sexual debauchery unturned, engaging in mass orgies and idolatrous sexual cult worship, which included both homosexual and heterosexual debauchery.

These murderous, malicious people who worshiped idols and hated God after once knowing Him, have NOTHING to do with people who have a sincere desire to love and worship the Lord Jesus Christ and who happen to be homosexual. Today, there are multitudes of homosexual people who are tirelessly yearning to be a part of the Church so that they can WORSHIP the One True Living God and profess Jesus as their Savior. Anyone who can possibly equate the monstrous, reprobate people of Romans 1 to modern-day gay and lesbian people who reach out to humanity, love and respect their parents, and who have been expelled from the church they love, just for being homosexual, is not using common sense! Like those religious leaders who scorned Jesus, they have chosen to believe lies founded on their traditions.

In fact, rather than Romans 1 being intended as a warning to gay and lesbian people, its actual purpose is revealed in the first verse of Chapter 2, where Paul rebukes his readers for passing judgment on others! The entire First Chapter of Romans was given to rebuke those who were being judgmental so as to "despise the riches of God’s kindness and forbearance and patience," forgetting that it is God’s kindness that leads men and women to repentance" (Romans 2:4). In other words, while many Christians use Romans Chapter 1 as a means of clobbering gay and lesbian people, the truth is that this chapter was actually written to rebuke those original readers for being so self-righteous and finger-pointing, that they forgot just how forbearing and gentle God was toward them! In their vindictive, finger-pointing, self-righteous preaching, they were forgetting that "all have sinned (missed the mark) and fall short of the glory of God," (Romans 3:23) including themselves! No one who has truly humbled himself or herself, and acknowledged his or her own missing of the mark, can ever point a finger of judgment at someone else.

http://www.opendoorcenter.com/myths_&_facts.htm

 

[RMDY]

That is not true. That is a cult-idolatry ritual violation that is being talked about in Leviticus. That old law has been ABOLISHED, read your Bible...Romans 7:6.

Please do research before debating here.

Jesus said he came to affirm the law, not abolish it.

Did you also read the verse Paul said right after it:

"I would not have known what sin is except through the law"

Paul is not telling us that we are "freed" and we can go on to keep sinning. On the contrary, we are freed from the law in the way that it condemns us.

Notice the verse "By dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code."

The law that bound us only produced death, for none are righteous and fall short of the glory of God.

By releasing us from the law, we are bound to christ, our new covenant, who freed us from the law's condemnation by giving us forgiveness for our sins by his sacrifice. This freedom from the law is a freedom from bondage, not a freedom to keep on sinning.

As christians, we live according to the Spirit. Christ and his diciples paint us a picture of what following the spirit is: living a life abstaining from sinful behaviour and keeping sobre, living a sanctificed christ-like life while we wait for our Saviours return.

We are to live like the light in the darkness, a christ-like life, where we abstain from sin because the choice is from our hearts, not out of fear from being condemned and killed.

 

[Der Alte]

[SIZE=-1]Actually it doesn't. But you reading it that way is certainly good for you.[/SIZE]

Actually the N.T. does condemn ALL homosexual activity, by all persons, under all circumstances, in all places. As interpreted by the early church for the first 300 years including two disciples of John the apostle, Ignatius and Polycarp, and at least one disciple of Polycarp, Irenaeus, all quoted below.

The early church interpreted [size=+1]αρσενοκοιτης[/size]/arsenokoités [1 Cor 6:9] variously as,

• “sodomy,”
• “filth of sodomy,”
• ” lawless lust,”
• “lust,”
• “impurity,”
• “works of the flesh,”
• “carnal,”
• “lawless intercourse,”
• “shameless,”
• “burning with insane love for boys,”
• “licentiousness,”
• “co-habitors with males,”
• “lusters after mankind
• "monstrosities”, etc.​

Quoted from; Ignatius, 30-107 AD; Polycarp 65 - 155 AD; Irenaeus, 120-202 AD; Theophilus, 115 - 181 AD; Clement of Alexandria, 153 - 217 AD; Tertullian, 145-220 AD; Cyprian, 200-258 AD; and Origen, 185-254 AD.

Note the dates, of these writings, extend from ca. 50 AD through 258 AD, more than 250 years.

Epistle Of Ignatius [Disciple of John] To The Ephesians [A.D. 30-107.]

But as to the practice of magic, or the impure love of boys, or murder, it is superfluous to write to you, since such vices are forbidden to be committed even by the Gentiles. I do not issue commands on these points as if I were an apostle; but, as your fellow-servant, I put you in mind of them.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.v.html

Epistle of Polycarp [Disciple of John] to the Philippians Chapter V.-The Duties of Deacons, Youths, and Virgins. [65 - 155 AD]

In like manner, let the young men also be blameless in all things, being especially careful to preserve purity, and keeping themselves in, as with a bridle, from every kind of evil. For it is well that they should be cut off from the lusts that are in the world, since "every lust warreth against the spirit; " and "neither fornicators, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, shall inherit the kingdom of God, [1 Cor 6:9] " nor those who do things inconsistent and unbecoming.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.iv.ii.html

Irenaeus [Disciple of Polycarp]Against Heresies Book V [120-202 AD]

So also he who has continued in the aforesaid works of the flesh, being truly reckoned as carnal, because he did not receive the Spirit of God, shall not have power to inherit the kingdom of heaven. As, again, the same apostle [Paul] testifies, saying to the Corinthians, "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not err," he says: "neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor revilers, nor rapacious persons, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And these ye indeed have been; but ye have been washed, but ye have been sanctified, but ye have been justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God." [1 Cor 6:9].

Since, therefore, in that passage [1 Cor 6:9] he [Paul] recounts those works of the flesh which are without the Spirit, which bring death [upon their doers],

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.ix.html

Theophilus to Autolycus Book III [115 - 181 AD]
Chapter VI.-Other Opinions of the Philosophers.

And these things the other laws of the Romans and Greeks also prohibit. Why, then, do Epicurus and the Stoics teach incest and sodomy, with which doctrines they have filled libraries, so that from boyhood this lawless intercourse is learned?

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf02.iv.ii.iii.html

Clement of Alexandria The Instructor. [Paedagogus.] Book III [153 - 217 AD]

The fate of the Sodomites was judgment to those who had done wrong, instruction to those who hear. The Sodomites having, through much luxury, fallen into uncleanness, practicing adultery shamelessly, and burning with insane love for boys; the All-seeing Word, whose notice those who commit impieties cannot escape, cast His eye on them. . . .Accordingly, the just punishment of the Sodomites became to men an image of the salvation which is well calculated for men.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf02.vi.iii.iii.html

Clement of Alexandria Exhortation To The Heathen

And what are the laws? “Thou shalt not kill; thou shalt not commit adultery; thou shalt not seduce boys; thou shalt not steal; thou shalt not bear false witness; thou shalt love the Lord thy God.” And the complements of these are those laws of reason and words of sanctity which are inscribed on men’s hearts: “Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself; to him who strikes thee on the cheek, present also the other;” “thou shalt not lust, for by lust alone thou hast committed adultery.”

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf02.vi.ii.html

Clement of Alexandria The Instructor [Paedagogus] Book 1

But life has reached this pitch of licentiousness through the wantonness of wickedness, and lasciviousness is diffused over the cities, having become law. Beside them women stand in the stews, offering their own flesh for hire for lewd pleasure, and boys, taught to deny their sex, act the part of women. Luxury has deranged all things; it has disgraced man. A luxurious niceness seeks everything, attempts everything, forces everything, coerces nature. Men play the part of women, and women that of men, contrary to nature; women are at once wives and husbands: no passage is closed against libidinousness; [i.e. every possible body orifice is used for “lechery.”] and their promiscuous lechery is a public institution, and luxury is domesticated.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf02.vi.iii.i.html

Clement of Alexandria The Instructor - Pedagogos Book 3
Chapter 3
Against Men Who Embellish Themselves

Such was predicted of old, and the result is notorious: the whole earth has now become full of fornication and wickedness. I admire the ancient legislators of the Romans: these detested effeminacy of conduct; and the giving of the body to feminine purposes, contrary to the law of nature, they judged worthy of the extremest penalty, according to the righteousness of the law.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf02.vi.iii.iii.html

Tertullian On Modesty [145-220 AD]
Chapter XVI.-General Consistency of the Apostle.

Just as, again, among all other crimes-nay, even before all others-when affirming that "adulterers, and fornicators, and effeminates, and co-habitors with males, will not attain the kingdom of God, [1 Cor 6:9]" he premised, "Do not err" -to wit, if you think they will attain it. But to them from whom "the kingdom" is taken away, of course the life which exists in the kingdom is not permitted either. Moreover, by superadding, "But such indeed ye have been; but ye have received ablution, but ye have been sanctified, in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God;" [1 Cor 6:9]

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf04.iii.viii.html

Tertullian The Chaplet, or De Corona. Chapter VI.

Demanding then a law of God, you have that common one [law] prevailing all over the world, engraven on the natural tables to which the apostle too is wont to appeal, as when in respect. of the woman's veil he says, "Does not even Nature teach you? " -as when to the Romans, affirming that the heathen do by nature those things which the law requires, he suggests both natural law and a law-revealing nature. Yes, and also in the first chapter of the epistle [Rom 1.] he authenticates nature, when he asserts that males and females changed among themselves the natural use of the creature into that which is unnatural, by way of penal retribution for their error. [Rom 1:27]

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf03.iv.vi.html

Tertullian VII. On Modesty.1 Chapter IV.-Adultery and Fornication Synonymous.

Accordingly, among us, secret connections as well-connections, that is, not first professed in presence of the Church-run risk of being judged akin to adultery and fornication; nor must we let them, if thereafter woven together by the covering of marriage, elude the charge. But all the other frenzies of passions-impious both toward the bodies and toward the sexes-beyond the laws of nature, we banish not only from the threshold, but from all shelter of the Church, because they are not sins, but monstrosities.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf04.iii.viii.html

Cyprian Treatise XII Three Books of Testimonies Against the Jews [200-258 AD]

65. That all sins are put away in baptism.

In the first Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians: "Neither fornicators, nor those who serve idols, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor the lusters after mankind, nor thieves, nor cheaters, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers, shall obtain the kingdom of God. And these things indeed ye were: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God." [1 Cor 6:9][/b].

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf05.iv.v.xii.html

Origen Against Celsus Book 8 [185-254 AD] [student of Clement of Alexandria]

and that they often exhibit in their character a high degree of gravity, of purity, and
integrity; while those who call themselves wise have despised these virtues, and have wallowed in the filth of sodomy, in lawless lust, “men with men working that which is unseemly.” [Rom 1:27]

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf04.vi.ix.viii.html​

 

[Der Alte]

[SIZE=-1]FACT: It is interesting, to say the least, that despite homosexuality being looked on as the "vilest of sins," as it is so often referred to, Jesus never mentioned it! Furthermore, as was already mentioned, the words "homosexual" or "homosexuality" did not exist in the original Greek and Aramaic languages of the New Testament. There are only three passages of Scripture in the N.T. which have been cited in reference to homosexuality[/SIZE]. . . .

Calling something a "fact" does not make it so. Stuff posted on a pro-homosexual site which does not cite any credible, verifiable, historical evidence does not prove anything.

See my post imediately above how the early Christians who risked their very lives to practice their faith, understood the Biblical injunction against ALL homosexual activity, by all persons, under all circumstance, and in all places.

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

Actually the N.T. does condemn ALL homosexual activity, by all persons, under all circumstances, in all places. As interpreted by the early church for the first 300 years including two disciples of John the apostle, Ignatius and Polycarp, and at least one disciple of Polycarp, Irenaeus, all quoted below.

The early church interpreted [SIZE=+1]αρσενοκοιτης[/SIZE]/arsenokoités [1 Cor 6:9] variously as,

• “sodomy,”
• “filth of sodomy,”
• ” lawless lust,”
• “lust,”
• “impurity,”
• “works of the flesh,”
• “carnal,”
• “lawless intercourse,”
• “shameless,”
• “burning with insane love for boys,”
• “licentiousness,”
• “co-habitors with males,”
• “lusters after mankind
• "monstrosities”, etc.​

Quoted from; Ignatius, 30-107 AD; Polycarp 65 - 155 AD; Irenaeus, 120-202 AD; Theophilus, 115 - 181 AD; Clement of Alexandria, 153 - 217 AD; Tertullian, 145-220 AD; Cyprian, 200-258 AD; and Origen, 185-254 AD.

Note the dates, of these writings, extend from ca. 50 AD through 258 AD, more than 250 years.

Epistle Of Ignatius [Disciple of John] To The Ephesians [A.D. 30-107.]

But as to the practice of magic, or the impure love of boys, or murder, it is superfluous to write to you, since such vices are forbidden to be committed even by the Gentiles. I do not issue commands on these points as if I were an apostle; but, as your fellow-servant, I put you in mind of them.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.v.html

Epistle of Polycarp [Disciple of John] to the Philippians Chapter V.-The Duties of Deacons, Youths, and Virgins. [65 - 155 AD]

In like manner, let the young men also be blameless in all things, being especially careful to preserve purity, and keeping themselves in, as with a bridle, from every kind of evil. For it is well that they should be cut off from the lusts that are in the world, since "every lust warreth against the spirit; " and "neither fornicators, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, shall inherit the kingdom of God, [1 Cor 6:9] " nor those who do things inconsistent and unbecoming.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.iv.ii.html

Irenaeus [Disciple of Polycarp]Against Heresies Book V [120-202 AD]

So also he who has continued in the aforesaid works of the flesh, being truly reckoned as carnal, because he did not receive the Spirit of God, shall not have power to inherit the kingdom of heaven. As, again, the same apostle [Paul] testifies, saying to the Corinthians, "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not err," he says: "neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor revilers, nor rapacious persons, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And these ye indeed have been; but ye have been washed, but ye have been sanctified, but ye have been justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God." [1 Cor 6:9].

Since, therefore, in that passage [1 Cor 6:9] he [Paul] recounts those works of the flesh which are without the Spirit, which bring death [upon their doers],

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.ix.html

Theophilus to Autolycus Book III [115 - 181 AD]
Chapter VI.-Other Opinions of the Philosophers.

And these things the other laws of the Romans and Greeks also prohibit. Why, then, do Epicurus and the Stoics teach incest and sodomy, with which doctrines they have filled libraries, so that from boyhood this lawless intercourse is learned?

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf02.iv.ii.iii.html

Clement of Alexandria The Instructor. [Paedagogus.] Book III [153 - 217 AD]

The fate of the Sodomites was judgment to those who had done wrong, instruction to those who hear. The Sodomites having, through much luxury, fallen into uncleanness, practicing adultery shamelessly, and burning with insane love for boys; the All-seeing Word, whose notice those who commit impieties cannot escape, cast His eye on them. . . .Accordingly, the just punishment of the Sodomites became to men an image of the salvation which is well calculated for men.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf02.vi.iii.iii.html

Clement of Alexandria Exhortation To The Heathen

And what are the laws? “Thou shalt not kill; thou shalt not commit adultery; thou shalt not seduce boys; thou shalt not steal; thou shalt not bear false witness; thou shalt love the Lord thy God.” And the complements of these are those laws of reason and words of sanctity which are inscribed on men’s hearts: “Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself; to him who strikes thee on the cheek, present also the other;” “thou shalt not lust, for by lust alone thou hast committed adultery.”

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf02.vi.ii.html

Clement of Alexandria The Instructor [Paedagogus] Book 1

But life has reached this pitch of licentiousness through the wantonness of wickedness, and lasciviousness is diffused over the cities, having become law. Beside them women stand in the stews, offering their own flesh for hire for lewd pleasure, and boys, taught to deny their sex, act the part of women. Luxury has deranged all things; it has disgraced man. A luxurious niceness seeks everything, attempts everything, forces everything, coerces nature. Men play the part of women, and women that of men, contrary to nature; women are at once wives and husbands: no passage is closed against libidinousness; [i.e. every possible body orifice is used for “lechery.”] and their promiscuous lechery is a public institution, and luxury is domesticated.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf02.vi.iii.i.html

Clement of Alexandria The Instructor - Pedagogos Book 3
Chapter 3
Against Men Who Embellish Themselves

Such was predicted of old, and the result is notorious: the whole earth has now become full of fornication and wickedness. I admire the ancient legislators of the Romans: these detested effeminacy of conduct; and the giving of the body to feminine purposes, contrary to the law of nature, they judged worthy of the extremest penalty, according to the righteousness of the law.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf02.vi.iii.iii.html

Tertullian On Modesty [145-220 AD]
Chapter XVI.-General Consistency of the Apostle.

Just as, again, among all other crimes-nay, even before all others-when affirming that "adulterers, and fornicators, and effeminates, and co-habitors with males, will not attain the kingdom of God, [1 Cor 6:9]" he premised, "Do not err" -to wit, if you think they will attain it. But to them from whom "the kingdom" is taken away, of course the life which exists in the kingdom is not permitted either. Moreover, by superadding, "But such indeed ye have been; but ye have received ablution, but ye have been sanctified, in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God;" [1 Cor 6:9]

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf04.iii.viii.html

Tertullian The Chaplet, or De Corona. Chapter VI.

Demanding then a law of God, you have that common one [law] prevailing all over the world, engraven on the natural tables to which the apostle too is wont to appeal, as when in respect. of the woman's veil he says, "Does not even Nature teach you? " -as when to the Romans, affirming that the heathen do by nature those things which the law requires, he suggests both natural law and a law-revealing nature. Yes, and also in the first chapter of the epistle [Rom 1.] he authenticates nature, when he asserts that males and females changed among themselves the natural use of the creature into that which is unnatural, by way of penal retribution for their error. [Rom 1:27]

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf03.iv.vi.html

Tertullian VII. On Modesty.1 Chapter IV.-Adultery and Fornication Synonymous.

Accordingly, among us, secret connections as well-connections, that is, not first professed in presence of the Church-run risk of being judged akin to adultery and fornication; nor must we let them, if thereafter woven together by the covering of marriage, elude the charge. But all the other frenzies of passions-impious both toward the bodies and toward the sexes-beyond the laws of nature, we banish not only from the threshold, but from all shelter of the Church, because they are not sins, but monstrosities.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf04.iii.viii.html

Cyprian Treatise XII Three Books of Testimonies Against the Jews [200-258 AD]

65. That all sins are put away in baptism.

In the first Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians: "Neither fornicators, nor those who serve idols, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor the lusters after mankind, nor thieves, nor cheaters, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers, shall obtain the kingdom of God. And these things indeed ye were: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God." [1 Cor 6:9][/b].

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf05.iv.v.xii.html

Origen Against Celsus Book 8 [185-254 AD] [student of Clement of Alexandria]

and that they often exhibit in their character a high degree of gravity, of purity, and
integrity; while those who call themselves wise have despised these virtues, and have wallowed in the filth of sodomy, in lawless lust, “men with men working that which is unseemly.” [Rom 1:27]

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf04.vi.ix.viii.html​

So I'm not aloud to hug my friends because they're girls either? That's a homosexual activity (not an INTIMATE one, but still homosexual).

 

[BereanTodd]

FACT: It is interesting, to say the least, that despite homosexuality being looked on as the "vilest of sins," as it is so often referred to, Jesus never mentioned it! Furthermore, as was already mentioned, the words "homosexual" or "homosexuality" did not exist in the original Greek and Aramaic languages of the New Testament. There are only three passages of Scripture in the N.T. which have been cited in reference to homosexuality. The first is Romans, Chapter 1. In this passage, the Apostle Paul gives a very specific list of characteristics describing those in question: He describes them as those who once knew God, but who chose not to honor God as God. Instead, they worshiped material images of human beings, birds, animals, and reptiles as objects of worship rather than the One True Living God. We are told that they were filled with EVERY kind of wickedness, evil, covetousness, and malice. They were full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, craftiness, gossip, slander, insolence, haughtiness, and boastfulness. They were inventors of evil, rebellious toward parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, and ruthless. (NRSV) As a result of their total depravity, God turned them over to complete spiritual ruin, so that they left no stone of sexual debauchery unturned, engaging in mass orgies and idolatrous sexual cult worship, which included both homosexual and heterosexual debauchery.

These murderous, malicious people who worshiped idols and hated God after once knowing Him, have NOTHING to do with people who have a sincere desire to love and worship the Lord Jesus Christ and who happen to be homosexual. Today, there are multitudes of homosexual people who are tirelessly yearning to be a part of the Church so that they can WORSHIP the One True Living God and profess Jesus as their Savior. Anyone who can possibly equate the monstrous, reprobate people of Romans 1 to modern-day gay and lesbian people who reach out to humanity, love and respect their parents, and who have been expelled from the church they love, just for being homosexual, is not using common sense! Like those religious leaders who scorned Jesus, they have chosen to believe lies founded on their traditions.

In fact, rather than Romans 1 being intended as a warning to gay and lesbian people, its actual purpose is revealed in the first verse of Chapter 2, where Paul rebukes his readers for passing judgment on others! The entire First Chapter of Romans was given to rebuke those who were being judgmental so as to "despise the riches of God’s kindness and forbearance and patience," forgetting that it is God’s kindness that leads men and women to repentance" (Romans 2:4). In other words, while many Christians use Romans Chapter 1 as a means of clobbering gay and lesbian people, the truth is that this chapter was actually written to rebuke those original readers for being so self-righteous and finger-pointing, that they forgot just how forbearing and gentle God was toward them! In their vindictive, finger-pointing, self-righteous preaching, they were forgetting that "all have sinned (missed the mark) and fall short of the glory of God," (Romans 3:23) including themselves! No one who has truly humbled himself or herself, and acknowledged his or her own missing of the mark, can ever point a finger of judgment at someone else.

http://www.opendoorcenter.com/myths_&_facts.htm

That is perhaps the worst piece of isogetical tripe that I have ever in my entire life read. Just a few points here:

1. The passage is not aimed at former Jews/Christians, the point of the passage, and all of Romans 1-3 is that God has made Himself abundently clear to ALL who are in the world:

Rom 1:19-20 because that which is known about God is evident within them, for God made it evident to them, 20 for since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, SO THAT THEY ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE.

Paul is saying that God has revealed Himself to all men of all time in all parts of the world, and we all are without excuse for having rejected His revelation which was made to all.

2. You are wrong in Paul's (and the rest of the Bible's) instructions to us regarding rebuking one another. We are not to judge anyone who is in the world, we are to love the world unconditionally, for we are no better than they. But of those in the church it is abundantly clear to any who read the Scriptures that we are to hold one another accoutnable to holy living!!!

Galatians 6, we who are spiritual are to restore a brother who is fallen. 1 Cor, the brother who will not turn and is living unrepentantly in his sin is to be put out from among us, we are not to even eat with such a one, but rather to turn him over to the devil for the destruction of his flesh. Matthew 18, we are to confront one another when sin is an issue, and if it continues, to bring it before the entire church, and if nescasary, again to put him out from among us.

 

[RMDY]

FACT: It is interesting, to say the least, that despite homosexuality being looked on as the "vilest of sins," as it is so often referred to, Jesus never mentioned it! Furthermore, as was already mentioned, the words "homosexual" or "homosexuality" did not exist in the original Greek and Aramaic languages of the New Testament. There are only three passages of Scripture in the N.T. which have been cited in reference to homosexuality. The first is Romans, Chapter 1. In this passage, the Apostle Paul gives a very specific list of characteristics describing those in question: He describes them as those who once knew God, but who chose not to honor God as God. Instead, they worshiped material images of human beings, birds, animals, and reptiles as objects of worship rather than the One True Living God. We are told that they were filled with EVERY kind of wickedness, evil, covetousness, and malice. They were full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, craftiness, gossip, slander, insolence, haughtiness, and boastfulness. They were inventors of evil, rebellious toward parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, and ruthless. (NRSV) As a result of their total depravity, God turned them over to complete spiritual ruin, so that they left no stone of sexual debauchery unturned, engaging in mass orgies and idolatrous sexual cult worship, which included both homosexual and heterosexual debauchery.

These murderous, malicious people who worshiped idols and hated God after once knowing Him, have NOTHING to do with people who have a sincere desire to love and worship the Lord Jesus Christ and who happen to be homosexual. Today, there are multitudes of homosexual people who are tirelessly yearning to be a part of the Church so that they can WORSHIP the One True Living God and profess Jesus as their Savior. Anyone who can possibly equate the monstrous, reprobate people of Romans 1 to modern-day gay and lesbian people who reach out to humanity, love and respect their parents, and who have been expelled from the church they love, just for being homosexual, is not using common sense! Like those religious leaders who scorned Jesus, they have chosen to believe lies founded on their traditions.

In fact, rather than Romans 1 being intended as a warning to gay and lesbian people, its actual purpose is revealed in the first verse of Chapter 2, where Paul rebukes his readers for passing judgment on others! The entire First Chapter of Romans was given to rebuke those who were being judgmental so as to "despise the riches of God’s kindness and forbearance and patience," forgetting that it is God’s kindness that leads men and women to repentance" (Romans 2:4). In other words, while many Christians use Romans Chapter 1 as a means of clobbering gay and lesbian people, the truth is that this chapter was actually written to rebuke those original readers for being so self-righteous and finger-pointing, that they forgot just how forbearing and gentle God was toward them! In their vindictive, finger-pointing, self-righteous preaching, they were forgetting that "all have sinned (missed the mark) and fall short of the glory of God," (Romans 3:23) including themselves! No one who has truly humbled himself or herself, and acknowledged his or her own missing of the mark, can ever point a finger of judgment at someone else.

http://www.opendoorcenter.com/myths_&_facts.htm

Homosexuality is mentioned in Paul's letter to Timothy as not adhering to sound doctrine.

 

[MercyBurst]

The old Law has been abolished. Why do you keep quoting Leviticus for "proof" homosexality is a sin?
That was an idolatry/cult practice condemned anyways.

Romans 7:6-

6But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

You say the law was abolished, but listen to what our savior said:

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil

So according to Jesus you have it wrong right from the start.

This debate is senseless.

 

[Der Alte]

[SIZE=-1]So I'm not aloud to hug my friends because they're girls either? That's a homosexual activity (not an INTIMATE one, but still homosexual).[/SIZE]

Were one to actually read my post one might actually discern that the early church was quite specific in what conduct was condemned. Do you really think playing dumb helps your argument?

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

Were one to actually read my post one might actually discern that the early church was quite specific in what conduct was condemned. Do you really think playing dumb helps your argument?

Strange, I don't go to an early church. Remember, the early churches were tone to keeping servants too (servants is a kind word for slave).