Haven't You Moved Pass Leviticus?

[davedjy]

Again, your subjective interpretation doesn't pass 2000 of condemnation of homosexual sin and if you think that by attacking individuals character you will changer their position you are sadly mistaken.

Polygamy and slavery were very well accepted in the Bible. You like to nitpick old laws to say something is a sin, it is the current day bigotry. Explain that one away...

 

[ReformedChapin]

Polygamy and slavery were very well accepted in the Bible. You like to nitpick old laws to say something is a sin, it is the current day bigotry. Explain that one away...

You clearly don't have an understanding of the old and new convenants. Polygamy and slevery were acts allowed according to their time frame how do you know that reflects on homosexuality? Will murder be allowed as well?

 

[Brieuse]

AGAIN, homosexuality as one's innate sexual constitution is not condemned once in the original Hebrew, and Greek language of the Scriptures. Translators have taken it upon themselves to falsely translate the word "homosexual" into the Bible.

Justify sexual sin? there are multitudes of Christian Churches that AFFIRM Gay and lesbian people for who they are!

amen!

 

[davedjy]

You clearly don't have an understanding of the old and new convenants. Polygamy and slevery were acts allowed according to their time frame how do you know that reflects on homosexuality? Will murder be allowed as well?

You freely accept those for "time frames", yet you have yet to disprove one of the myths from the myths and facts sheet. You also use a time frame for justification of the other 2, and freely accept those. Strange, isn't it?

 

[DMagoh]

Translators have taken it upon themselves to falsely translate the word "homosexual" into the Bible.

I dont see the word homosexual used in this verse...

27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. Romans 1:27

All I just see is:

• men abandoning natural relations with women
• men inflamed with lust for one another
• men committing indecent acts with other men

and because of that, they

• receive the due penalty for their perversion

How do you misinterpret that?

 

[MercyBurst]

I dont see the word homosexual used in this verse...

27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. Romans 1:27

All I just see is:

• men abandoning natural relations with women
• men inflamed with lust for one another
• men committing indecent acts with other men

and because of that, they

• receive the due penalty for their perversion

How do you misinterpret that?

AWW come on, you know how. You gotta go read the filthy rubbish over there to gaypropaganda.com. Who'd want to go over there anyway? It's so so depressing over there... people dieing and all....

DMagoh, I love Christian unity. WE have it brother!!!!

Life is in the Bible.

 

[davedjy]

I dont see the word homosexual used in this verse...

27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. Romans 1:27

All I just see is:

• men abandoning natural relations with women
• men inflamed with lust for one another
• men committing indecent acts with other men

and because of that, they

• receive the due penalty for their perversion

How do you misinterpret that?

MYTH #4: Not just the Old Testament, but the New Testament also condemns homosexuality.

FACT: It is interesting, to say the least, that despite homosexuality being looked on as the "vilest of sins," as it is so often referred to, Jesus never mentioned it! Furthermore, as was already mentioned, the words "homosexual" or "homosexuality" did not exist in the original Greek and Aramaic languages of the New Testament. There are only three passages of Scripture in the N.T. which have been cited in reference to homosexuality. The first is Romans, Chapter 1. In this passage, the Apostle Paul gives a very specific list of characteristics describing those in question: He describes them as those who once knew God, but who chose not to honor God as God. Instead, they worshiped material images of human beings, birds, animals, and reptiles as objects of worship rather than the One True Living God. We are told that they were filled with EVERY kind of wickedness, evil, covetousness, and malice. They were full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, craftiness, gossip, slander, insolence, haughtiness, and boastfulness. They were inventors of evil, rebellious toward parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, and ruthless. (NRSV) As a result of their total depravity, God turned them over to complete spiritual ruin, so that they left no stone of sexual debauchery unturned, engaging in mass orgies and idolatrous sexual cult worship, which included both homosexual and heterosexual debauchery.

These murderous, malicious people who worshiped idols and hated God after once knowing Him, have NOTHING to do with people who have a sincere desire to love and worship the Lord Jesus Christ and who happen to be homosexual. Today, there are multitudes of homosexual people who are tirelessly yearning to be a part of the Church so that they can WORSHIP the One True Living God and profess Jesus as their Savior. Anyone who can possibly equate the monstrous, reprobate people of Romans 1 to modern-day gay and lesbian people who reach out to humanity, love and respect their parents, and who have been expelled from the church they love, just for being homosexual, is not using common sense! Like those religious leaders who scorned Jesus, they have chosen to believe lies founded on their traditions.

In fact, rather than Romans 1 being intended as a warning to gay and lesbian people, its actual purpose is revealed in the first verse of Chapter 2, where Paul rebukes his readers for passing judgment on others! The entire First Chapter of Romans was given to rebuke those who were being judgmental so as to "despise the riches of God’s kindness and forbearance and patience," forgetting that it is God’s kindness that leads men and women to repentance" (Romans 2:4). In other words, while many Christians use Romans Chapter 1 as a means of clobbering gay and lesbian people, the truth is that this chapter was actually written to rebuke those original readers for being so self-righteous and finger-pointing, that they forgot just how forbearing and gentle God was toward them! In their vindictive, finger-pointing, self-righteous preaching, they were forgetting that "all have sinned (missed the mark) and fall short of the glory of God," (Romans 3:23) including themselves! No one who has truly humbled himself or herself, and acknowledged his or her own missing of the mark, can ever point a finger of judgment at someone else.

http://www.opendoorcenter.com/myths_&_facts.htm

 

[RMDY]

Dave, our beliefs of what Jesus was referring to on "sexual immorality" are completely different.

- Rob

 

[DMagoh]

...It is interesting, to say the least, that despite homosexuality being looked on as the "vilest of sins," as it is so often referred to, Jesus never mentioned it...

Do you know how many things Jesus never mentioned? Are you saying they werent important or sins?

• incest
• rape
• pedophiia
• necrophilia

If we are using the logic "Jesus didnt mention it", then you cant pick and choose which things Jesus didnt mention are good and what things Jesus didnt mention are bad.

If the fact that Jesus didnt mention homosexual sex makes it OK, then everything Jesus didnt mention is OK.

If A = B, and B = C, then A = C as well.

 

[davedjy]

Do you know how many things Jesus never mentioned? Are you saying they werent important or sins?

• incest
• rape
• pedophiia
• necrophilia

If we are using the logic "Jesus didnt mention it", then you cant pick and choose which things Jesus didnt mention are good and what things Jesus didnt mention are bad.

If the fact that Jesus didnt mention homosexual sex makes it OK, then everything Jesus didnt mention is OK.

If A = B, and B = C, then A = C as well.

Again, you are mentioning acts that have NOTHING TO DO WITH SEXUAL ORIENTATION!

Most of those are just not common sense to even describe. Rape hurts others, and incest is not a sexual orientation.

 

[Der Alte]

[SIZE=-1]Again, you are mentioning acts that have NOTHING TO DO WITH SEXUAL ORIENTATION!

Most of those are just not common sense to even describe. Rape hurts others, and incest is not a sexual orientation.[/SIZE]

"We Can't Legitimate Homosexuality Halakhically" (USCJ Review, Spring 2004): Joel Roth

The two verses in the book of (Leviticus (18:22 and 20:13) which deal with homosexuality are really quite clear, despite the efforts of some to call their clarity into question. (Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 absolutely forbid homosexual intercourse between males. The Rabbis, in the Sifra (Aharei Mot 9:8), also understand the Torah to forbid lesbianism. The Torah’s prohibitions, let it be clear, are against actions, like male homosexual intercourse, not against fantasies or attractions.

The Torah and the Rabbis do not distinguish between types of homosexuals in any way... The Rabbis were well able to conceive of monogamous and loving relationships between members of the same sex, and I quote in my paper the texts that prove this beyond reasonable question. But their words cannot possibly be read to imply that such monogamous or loving gay relationships are in a different halakhic [Jewish legal] category than any other relationships between members of the same sex. The prohibition is clear and total.”​

http://www.uscj.org/POINTRoth6331.html

Naomi Grossman, freelance journalist, states in her April 2001 article in Moment Magazine, "The Gay Orthodox Undergound":

"The Torah strictly forbids homosexual sex, and rabbis have consistently upheld that prohibition through the ages... The prohibition against homosexual sex comes from Leviticus: 'Do not lie with a male as one lies with a woman; it is an abhorrence' (18:22). In biblical times, the punishment for violating that code was clear. 'If a man lies with a male as one lies with a woman, the two of them have done an abhorrent thing; they shall be put to death -— their bloodguilt is upon them' (Leviticus 20:13). The Talmud extends the prohibition to lesbian sex [Hilchot Issurei Bi'ah 21:8]."

Official Orthodoxy makes no distinction between the sex act, which the Torah flatly prohibits, and homosexuality as a sexual identity. "Homosexuality is not a state of being in traditional Judaism; it's an act," Freundel says. "Desires are … not relevant."​

http://members.aol.com/gayjews/moment.html​

 

[RMDY]

Again, you are mentioning acts that have NOTHING TO DO WITH SEXUAL ORIENTATION!

Most of those are just not common sense to even describe. Rape hurts others, and incest is not a sexual orientation.

Love and Peace, to the saints and the faithful, from Lord Jesus Christ

So because you think God made the way you are, you have to be that way? You think it is a matter of sexual orientation? What worldly views you have there!

Heavenly things are not of sexual orientation, Dave. Dave made humans a certain way and there is only a minority of people who are the way they are. Blind people are born that way and so are people who cannot hear. So are people who are born crippled or handicapped. Do you think it's my fault I have ADHD? Do you think I should blame God for my problems? There are things in life that happen to us and we have to overcome them. How easy it would be for me to just give up on myself and just accept my problem and not try to work around it! But Christ is beyond all these things!

Dave, do you remember the man with a pallet? Jesus healed him and told him to get up and go home with his pallet. Then later Jesus approached him and told him to sin no more! Scriptures don't say what he did to sin, but for some reason Jesus told him to sin no more! In my beliefs, the man with a pallet was born that way, or maybe he wasn't. We can't even know for sure. I asked my Pastor this question: What sin did the Pallet man commit? He replied that if you exchange the glory of God for a created thing, you are committing sin.

Dave, I don't know what you have been through with all your past history involved with the church, but I do know for sure that we have to be obedient to God and whatever God labeled as a sin or detestable or bad in his eyes (regardless whether your stoned or not) then you need to be obedient to God this way from your heart. You need to seek the Lord and if you do, you will find him. God looks to the heart. God sent his son for you and we are to love him back in obedience and repetenance of our sins for whatever glory we have ever exchanged in place of Him in our lives.

Dave,

I love God more than I love my girlfriend. I love God more than my sexual orientation. Whether I'm gay, straight or anything, I love God with all my heart and will do whatever he tells me to do because I love Him and want to do his will. That is why he calls Jesus his Son, because he does whatever He wants him to do, not because the Son says in return "Why did you make me this way? And then do whatever the Son believes to be right"

If the Son were to do his own will, he would not have died on that cross and would have not died so your sins can be forgiven, for he was afraid of death at his final moments and made a prayer for the Father to do his will and not Jesus's.

In the book I bought recently called The Holy Spirit: The Keys To Supernatural Living, here are some characteristics of a Carnal person and a Spirit-filled person:

"Carnal Man: Some or all of the following traits may characterize the Christian who does not fully trust God.

Ignorance of his spiritual heritage
Unbelief
Disobedience
Loss of love for God and for others
Poor prayer life
No desire for Bible study
Legalistic attitude
Impure thoughts
Jealousy
Guilt
Worry
Discouragement
Critical spirit
Frustration
Aimlessness

(The individual who professes to be a Christian but who continues to practice sin should realize that he may not be a Christian at all, according to 1 John 2:3, 3:6, 9: Ephesians 5:5.)

Carnal Man
(One who has received Christ, but who lives in defeat because he trust in his own efforts to live the Christian life)
Read 1Corinthians 3:1-3

Self directed Life:
- Self is on the throne. Ego or finite self is also on throne.
- Christ is dethroned and now allowed to direct the life
- Interests are directed by self, often resulting in discord and frustration

The Spiritual Man: Some personal traits result from trusting God:

Christ-centered
Empowered by the Holy Spirit
Introduces others to Christ
Effective prayer life
Understands God's Word
Trust God
Obeys God
Love
Joy
Peace
Patience
Kindness
Faithfulness
Goodness

Carnal Christians cannot experience the abundant and fruitful Christian life. The carnal man trusts in his own efforts to live the Christian life.

A. He is either uninformed about, or has forgotten, God's love, forgiveness, and power (Romans 5:8-10; Hebrews 10:1-25; 1John 1; 2-1-3; IIPeter 1:9; Acts 1:8)

B. He has an up-and-down spiritual experience

C. He cannot understand himself - he wants to do what is right, but cannot.

D. He fails to draw upon the power of the Holy Spirit to live the Christian life. (I Corinthians 3:1-3; Romans 7:15-24; 8:7; Galatians 5:16-18)"

God gives all of us spiritual gifts. When we become Christians and are empowered by the Holy Spirit, God's Spirit freely gives us spiritual and blessed gifts.

Such are these:

Wisdom
Knowledge
Faith
Healing
Miracles
Prophesy
Discerning of Spirits
Tongues
Interpretation of Tongues
Apostleship
Teaching
Helps, Service, and Mercy
Administration
Leadership
Exhortation
Giving
Evangelism
Pastoring


We need total availibility to God. It is like receiving a pair of Roller skates and all our Christian lives they are packed away somewhere in our Temple home. One day we will seek this Spirit and find them or we will stumble across because of the Holy Spirit's guidance. In all and all, we serve Christ, and we have to ask for the empowering of the Holy Spirit. I have found that all my Christian life, I didn't once seek the Holy Spirit until recently! How much of a joy it is to have it! I had so many conflicting beliefs about it! One denomination told me I have to recieve a second baptism and another a confirmation! But if you seek the Lord with your whole heart, you will find him!

When you do discover those roller sakes and try them on, you will get a taste of what you can do, but skill builds up over time with a guide (Holy Spirit) and training and fine tuning of the gifts. And boy, when one learns up to rollar skate by themselves and do a whole bunch of skillful tricks on wheels, you will amaze crowds and woo people and before you know it, people will see your gifts and ask where you got them from! That is an opportunity to share Jesus with them! You will then say back to them, "Jesus loves you and you can do what I can too. He died for our sins and for that reason you are saved! He loves you!"

Dave, this is the last time I will talk to you because I feel the internet has been much of a distraction for me lately, especially on my seeking of God and the Holy Spirit, and am going to get rid of it. I pray that you will find your way in life and it will be the right one.

Love,

Rob D.