Have a blessed Saint Nicholas!

[JohnTh]

Have a blessed Saint Nicholas!

A gift for you:
A photo journal from his chapel with one of his miracles.

Bonus:
Another miracle of Saint Porphyrios (few days ago was his day)

Extra bonus:
The testament of Saint Porphyrios

Enjoy!

 

[ArmyMatt]

blessed Feast!

 

[AMM]

Have a blessed Saint Nicholas!

A gift for you:
A photo journal from his chapel with one of his miracles.

Bonus:
Another miracle of Saint Porphyrios (few days ago was his day)

Extra bonus:
The testament of Saint Porphyrios

Enjoy!

I have a question about the testament of St Porphyrios. He mentions going to heaven:

"Now that I’m leaving for heaven, I have the feeling that God will say to me, ‘What are you doing here?’"

This makes it seem to me as though St Porphyrios conceives of heaven as a specific location and that hell is also a specific location. That when the saint goes to heaven, God will say "why are you here" to him, rather than St Porphyrios simply experiencing God in the way that his life prepared him.

But I've heard that in Orthodoxy, hell and heaven are conceived differently. They aren't places, but ways of experiencing God (I believe St Isaac of Syria says this). Can you explain this difference a little bit?

 

[ArmyMatt]

there is some special distinction between heaven and hell, because you aren't going to have sinners in agony side by side with the saved. what makes heaven, heaven and hell, hell is your condition before God and how you experience Him, but that doesn't mean there isn't some kind of difference in "place."

 

[AMM]

there is some special distinction between heaven and hell, because you aren't going to have sinners in agony side by side with the saved. what makes heaven, heaven and hell, hell is your condition before God and how you experience Him, but that doesn't mean there isn't some kind of difference in "place."

so can we say that heaven and hell can both be truly experienced on earth? based on their internal experiences and heart's disposition, exposure to Christianity, etc.? I'm not sure if what I'm trying to articulate makes sense or not

and what about some of Christ's sayings and parables which have "depart from me" or "come, enter the joy of the Lord"? That makes it seem like it's two places as well

 

[nicholas123]

so can we say that heaven and hell can both be truly experienced on earth? based on their internal experiences and heart's disposition, exposure to Christianity, etc.? I'm not sure if what I'm trying to articulate makes sense or not

and what about some of Christ's sayings and parables which have "depart from me" or "come, enter the joy of the Lord"? That makes it seem like it's two places as well

These are spoken as places only in parables, these are stories to elucidate a mystical intuition. To imagine a new life is to imagine a new language as well, therefore the next life is inherently ineffable and can't be spoken of literally. This communication is for this life, in the next there shall be a new one that we cannot still conceive. It is a bad habit to wonder too much about that which is still inconceivable, as it does not make sense to speak about the ineffable.
Live a good life here and trust the Lord, speculations such as these are just a bad habit.

 

[Euodius]

Blessed feast!

 

[JohnTh]

This makes it seem to me as though St Porphyrios conceives of heaven as a specific location and that hell is also a specific location. That when the saint goes to heaven, God will say "why are you here" to him, rather than St Porphyrios simply experiencing God in the way that his life prepared him.

But I've heard that in Orthodoxy, hell and heaven are conceived differently. They aren't places, but ways of experiencing God (I believe St Isaac of Syria says this). Can you explain this difference a little bit?

Indeed, the main difference between heaven and hell is existential (as a status) - or if you want, Saint Isaac says the same - but there are also different places. We see this in the parable of the unmerciful wealthy man and righteous Lazarus where our Lord uses a lot of topical (place-ly) adjectives.
Besides that we have enough experiences and stories from the people about the afterlife and nobody talked about a „mixed” place with demons and angels, saints and sinners wandering together just that their internal status is different. On contrary: the depictions were pretty vivid and pretty different.

Also, since we have a 3D body we need to have a 3D place where this body will be after the resurrection of the dead.

No, we cannot experience fully Heaven/Hell here because - aside of the place - both these statuses imply an intensity unattainable here because of various factors, and, above all, because of time. We are under time / changeability here. However, yes, there are/were saints/people which, with God's mercy, experienced for a (very) short amount of time experienced „heaven” (or „hell”).

 

[AMM]

Indeed, the main difference between heaven and hell is existential (as a status) - or if you want, Saint Isaac says the same - but there are also different places. We see this in the parable of the unmerciful wealthy man and righteous Lazarus where our Lord uses a lot of topical (place-ly) adjectives.
Besides that we have enough experiences and stories from the people about the afterlife and nobody talked about a „mixed” place with demons and angels, saints and sinners wandering together just that their internal status is different. On contrary: the depictions were pretty vivid and pretty different.

Also, since we have a 3D body we need to have a 3D place where this body will be after the resurrection of the dead.

No, we cannot experience fully Heaven/Hell here because - aside of the place - both these statuses imply an intensity unattainable here because of various factors, and, above all, because of time. We are under time / changeability here. However, yes, there are/were saints/people which, with God's mercy, experienced for a (very) short amount of time experienced „heaven” (or „hell”).

Thank you - that does help me understand this a lot better.