Hades Is A Real Place of Torment and Agony

[Major1]

Seems like you blindly skipped over my first response? Either you shut out scriptures that poke holes in your theology or you have no intelligent comeback. I will take your hasty exit as a bow out.

See you around!

NOPE! Look at post #298 my prayer partner.

Certainly not. I just do not care to keep doing the same thing over and over with you.

There are NO Scriptures that poke holes in my theology my friend.

I actually have NO theology. I just read the "English Bible" and accept it as it is printed without trying to manipulate it to make it say what I want it to say.

As far as being intelligent....probably not. Just an old country boy from U.A.

The only real intelligent thing I did, wait two things I did was to marry one of the finest women in the world 55 years ago and accept Christ as my Saviour.

 

[Major1]

Well...…..it is 6:10 here in central Fl. and the old Major has had about all the fun he can handle for one day.

Se you all on another day in another way!

 

[agapelove]

No sir. You are in error once again. I could use a Polish translation and it would say the same thing. It is not about what language it is written.

Thank you for your prayers. We all need them.

I would appreciate it if you could please stop addressing me as sir. I am clearly a woman but I'm not surprised that went right over your head as does most of Scripture. It is very much about the language, SIR. The original language of that verse you are reading is Koine Greek and if you did even the slightest research you would know that "eternal" and "punishment" are not the best translations-- an ad nauseam that would not even be necessary if politics had not dipped its tongue into the first "people's Bible" and monopolized Western theology for the first 400+ years. Thank God modern Bible translations are finally getting it together.

NOPE! Look at post #298 my prayer partner.

Certainly not. I just do not care to keep doing the same thing over and over with you.

There are NO Scriptures that poke holes in my theology my friend.

I actually have NO theology. I just read the "English Bible" and accept it as it is printed without trying to manipulate it to make it say what I want it to say.

As far as being intelligent....probably not. Just an old country boy from U.A.

The only real intelligent thing I did, wait two things I did was to marry one of the finest women in the world 55 years ago and accept Christ as my Saviour.

Thanks for your life story sir. What "same thing"? We have engaged in 0 debate because you refuse to acknowledge my refutations and then proudly claim there are no scriptures that poke holes in your theology.

We all have theologies. Don't sit on your high horse.

 

[ClementofA]

Care to respond to post #288???

I already did....post 293:

Hades Is A Real Place of Torment and Agony

 

[ClementofA]

Incorrect my friend. Because I do not like to think it is real does not make it so.

Hell is real.

I wish that it wasn't but it is.

Is heaven real? Is heaven for eternity????

Matthew 25:46 …..

"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

But some are of opinion that this punishment shall have an end: this is as likely as that the glory of the righteous shall have an end: for the same word is used to express the duration of the punishment, κολασιν αιωνιον, as is used to express the duration of the state of glory: ζωην αιωνιον . I have seen the best things that have been written in favor of the final redemption of damned spirits; but I never saw an answer to the argument against that doctrine, drawn from this verse, but what sound learning and criticism should be ashamed to acknowledge. The original word αιων is certainly to be taken here in its proper grammatical sense, continued being, αιειων, Never Ending. Some have gone a middle way, and think that the wicked shall be annihilated. This, I think, is contrary to the text; if they go into punishment, they continue to exist; for that which ceases to be, ceases to suffer.
Matthew 25:46 -

Remember.....you are not argueing with me. I just read and accept what the Bible says even if I do not like what it says.

Let us look at this verse again:

"And these shall go away into eternal (aiōnios) punishment: but the righteous into life eternal (aiōnios)" (Mt.25:26).

Since the structure of this verse is best described as being a "parallelism" then the Greek word aiōnios must carry with it the same meaning in both instances where it is used.

Then, by the same reasoning, the "parallel" in Rom.5:19 proves Scriptural universalism to be true:

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."

1 Cor.15:22 AS in Adam ALL die SO ALSO in Christ shall ALL be made alive.

1 Cor.15:28 And when ALL shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put ALL under him, that God may be all in ALL.

Col.1:16 For by Him ***ALL*** was created that are in HEAVEN and that are on EARTH, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All was created through Him and for Him.
20 and by Him to reconcile ***ALL*** to Himself, by Him, whether on EARTH or in HEAVEN, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

And your translation of Mt.25:46 contradicts this translation of Lamentations 3:

Lam.3:31 For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:
32 For if He causes grief, Then He will have compassion According to His abundant lovingkindness. 33 For He does not afflict willingly Or grieve the SONS OF MEN.

While these translations (& others) of Mt.25:46 are in harmony with all the verses above i have posted:

The New Testament: A Translation, by Eastern Orthodox scholar David Bentley Hart, 2017, Yale Press):
"And these shall go to the chastening of that Age, but the just to the life of that Age."

Youngs Literal Translation of the Holy Bible, 1898:
"And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during."

Emphatic Diaglott, 1942 edition
"And these shall go forth to the aionian 1 cutting-off; but the RIGHTEOUS to aionian Life."

Concordant Literal New Testament, 1983
And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian."

Rotherham Emphasized Bible, 1959
"And these shall go away into age-abiding correction, But the righteous into age-abiding life."

 

[ClementofA]

NOT ONE SINGLE SCRIPTURE you posted says that people will be saved after they enter the Lake of Fire...……...NO NOT ONE.

You will never post any Scriptures that validate Universalism because there are NONE!

NOT ONE SINGLE SCRIPTURE you posted says that people will NEVER be saved after they enter the Lake of Fire...……...NO NOT ONE.

You will never post any Scriptures that validate NON Universalism because there are NONE!

*************************************************


10:28 A man that hath set at nought Moses' law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses: 29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Generally capital punishment under Moses' law was by stoning. Stoning to death is not a very sore or long lasting punishment. People suffered far worse deaths via the torture methods of the eternal hell believing Medieval Inquisitionists and the German Nazis under Hitler.

Therefore, if the writer of Hebrews believed that wicked, rebellious, Christ rejectors would be punished with something so monstrous as being endlessly annihilated or tormented, he would not have chosen to compare their punishment to something so lame as being stoned to death. Clearly he did not believe Love Omnipotent is an unfeeling terminator machine or sadist who abandons forever the beings He created in His own image & likeness so easily.

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."

According to the Scriptures, God is Love Omnipotent, not a mythical deception infinitely worse than Hitler, Bin Laden & Satan combined.

Unique Proof For Christian, Biblical Universalism

75 UR verses + 100 proofs + 150 reasons etc:
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[FineLinen]

Incorrect my friend. Because I do not like to think it is real does not make it so.

Hell is real.

I wish that it wasn't but it is.

All four (4) hells are real.

The reality of them gives zero cause for alarm.

The Living One consumes them !

 

[Der Alte]

No friend you are reading and accepting an egregiously mistranslated verse in ENGLISH and then allowing it to violate your sense of justice and virtue. Do better.

How is it that folks with no formal education in Hebrew or Greek, who could not locate a Hebrew verb, or parse a Greek verb and do not know a hithpael from a hat rack or an aorist from an ant hill think they can determine that a Hebrew or Greek word is"egregiously mistranslated?"

•Second Clement 5:5 [A.D. 150]).
"If we do the will of Christ, we shall obtain rest; but if not, if we neglect his commandments, nothing will rescue us from eternal punishment"
• (Second Clement ibid., 17:7)
"But when they see how those who have sinned and who have denied Jesus by their words or by their deeds are punished with terrible torture in unquenchable fire, the righteous, who have done good, and who have endured tortures and have hated the luxuries of life, will give glory to their God saying, ‘There shall be hope for him that has served God with all his heart!’".
•Ignatius of Antioch[a student of John]
"Corrupters of families will not inherit the kingdom of God. And if they who do these things according to the flesh suffer death, how much more if a man corrupt by evil teaching the faith of God for the sake of which Jesus Christ was crucified? A man become so foul will depart into unquenchable fire: and so will anyone who listens to him" (Letter to the Ephesians 16:1–2 [A.D. 110]).
• Justin Martyr
"No more is it possible for the evildoer, the avaricious, and the treacherous to hide from God than it is for the virtuous. Every man will receive the eternal punishment or reward which his actions deserve. Indeed, if all men recognized this, no one would choose evil even for a short time, knowing that he would incur the eternal sentence of fire. On the contrary, he would take every means to control himself and to adorn himself in virtue, so that he might obtain the good gifts of God and escape the punishments"
• (First Apology 12 [A.D. 151]).
"We have been taught that only they may aim at immortality who have lived a holy and virtuous life near to God. We believe that they who live wickedly and do not repent will be punished in everlasting fire" (ibid., 21).
"[Jesus] shall come from the heavens in glory with his angelic host, when he shall raise the bodies of all the men who ever lived. Then he will clothe the worthy in immortality; but the wicked, clothed in eternal sensibility, he will commit to the eternal fire, along with the evil demons" (ibid., 52).
• The Martyrdom of Polycarp
"Fixing their minds on the grace of Christ, [the martyrs] despised worldly tortures and purchased eternal life with but a single hour. To them, the fire of their cruel torturers was cold. They kept before their eyes their escape from the eternal and unquenchable fire"
• (Martyrdom of Polycarp 2:3 [A.D. 155]).
Mathetes
"When you know what is the true life, that of heaven; when you despise the merely apparent death, which is temporal; when you fear the death which is real, and which is reserved for those who will be condemned to the everlasting fire, the fire which will punish even to the end those who are delivered to it, then you will condemn the deceit and error of the world" (Letter to Diognetus 10:7 [A.D. 160]).
• Athenagoras
"[W]e [Christians] are persuaded that when we are removed from this present life we shall live another life, better than the present one. . . . Then we shall abide near God and with God, changeless and free from suffering in the soul . . . or if we fall with the rest [of mankind], a worse one and in fire; for God has not made us as sheep or beasts of burden, a mere incidental work, that we should perish and be annihilated" (Plea for the Christians 31 [A.D. 177]).
• Theophilus of Antioch
"Give studious attention to the prophetic writings [the Bible] and they will lead you on a clearer path to escape the eternal punishments and to obtain the eternal good things of God. . . . [God] will examine everything and will judge justly, granting recompense to each according to merit. To those who seek immortality by the patient exercise of good works, he will give everlasting life, joy, peace, rest, and all good things. . . . For the unbelievers and for the contemptuous, and for those who do not submit to the truth but assent to iniquity, when they have been involved in adulteries, and fornications, and homosexualities, and avarice, and in lawless idolatries, there will be wrath and indignation, tribulation and anguish; and in the end, such men as these will be detained in everlasting fire" (To Autolycus 1:14 [A.D. 181])
• Irenaeus[Student of Polycarp a student of John]
"[God will] send the spiritual forces of wickedness, and the angels who transgressed and became apostates, and the impious, unjust, lawless, and blasphemous among men into everlasting fire" (Against Heresies 1:10:1 [A.D. 189]).
"The penalty increases for those who do not believe the Word of God and despise his coming. . . . t is not merely temporal, but eternal. To whomsoever the Lord shall say, ‘Depart from me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire,’ they will be damned forever" (ibid., 4:28:2).
• Tertullian
"After the present age is ended he will judge his worshipers for a reward of eternal life and the godless for a fire equally perpetual and unending"
• (Apology 18:3 [A.D. 197]).
"Then will the entire race of men be restored to receive its just deserts according to what it has merited in this period of good and evil, and thereafter to have these paid out in an immeasurable and unending eternity. Then there will be neither death again nor resurrection again, but we shall be always the same as we are now, without changing. The worshipers of God shall always be with God, clothed in the proper substance of eternity. But the godless and those who have not turned wholly to God will be punished in fire equally unending, and they shall have from the very nature of this fire, divine as it were, a supply of incorruptibility" (ibid., 44:12–13).
• Hippolytus
"Standing before [Christ’s] judgment, all of them, men, angels, and demons, crying out in one voice, shall say: ‘Just is your judgment!’ And the righteousness of that cry will be apparent in the recompense made to each. To those who have done well, everlasting enjoyment shall be given; while to the lovers of evil shall be given eternal punishment. The unquenchable and unending fire awaits these latter, and a certain fiery worm which does not die and which does not waste the body but continually bursts forth from the body with unceasing pain. No sleep will give them rest; no night will soothe them; no death will deliver them from punishment; no appeal of interceding friends will profit them" (Against the Greeks 3 [A.D. 212]).
• Minucius Felix
"I am not ignorant of the fact that many, in the consciousness of what they deserve, would rather hope than actually believe that there is nothing for them after death. They would prefer to be annihilated rather than be restored for punishment. . . . Nor is there either measure nor end to these torments. That clever fire burns the limbs and restores them, wears them away and yet sustains them, just as fiery thunderbolts strike bodies but do not consume them" (Octavius 34:12–5:3 [A.D. 226]).
• Cyprian of Carthage
"An ever-burning Gehenna and the punishment of being devoured by living flames will consume the condemned; nor will there be any way in which the tormented can ever have respite or be at an end. Souls along with their bodies will be preserved for suffering in unlimited agonies. . . . The grief at punishment will then be without the fruit of repentance; weeping will be useless, and prayer ineffectual. Too late will they believe in eternal punishment, who would not believe in eternal life" (To Demetrian 24 [A.D. 252]).
• Lactantius
"[T]he sacred writings inform us in what manner the wicked are to undergo punishment. For because they have committed sins in their bodies, they will again be clothed with flesh, that they may make atonement in their bodies; and yet it will not be that flesh with which God clothed man, like this our earthly body, but indestructible, and abiding forever, that it may be able to hold out against tortures and everlasting fire, the nature of which is different from this fire of ours, which we use for the necessary purposes of life, and which is extinguished unless it be sustained by the fuel of some material. But that divine fire always lives by itself, and flourishes without any nourishment. . . . The same divine fire, therefore, with one and the same force and power, will both burn the wicked and will form them again, and will replace as much as it shall consume of their bodies, and will supply itself with eternal nourishment. . . . Thus, without any wasting of bodies, which regain their substance, it will only burn and affect them with a sense of pain. But when [God] shall have judged the righteous, he will also try them with fire" (Divine Institutes 7:21 [A.D. 307]).
• Cyril of Jerusalem
"We shall be raised therefore, all with our bodies eternal, but not all with bodies alike: for if a man is righteous, he will receive a heavenly body, that he may be able worthily to hold converse with angels; but if a man is a sinner, he shall receive an eternal body, fitted to endure the penalties of sins, that he may burn eternally in fire, nor ever be consumed. And righteously will God assign this portion to either company; for we do nothing without the body. We blaspheme with the mouth, and with the mouth we pray. … Since then the body has been our minister in all things, it shall also share with us in the future the fruits of the past" (Catechetical Lectures 18:19 [A.D. 350]).​

 

[ClementofA]

How is it that folks with no formal education in Hebrew or Greek, who could not locate a Hebrew verb, or parse a Greek verb and do not know a hithpael from a hat rack or an aorist from an ant hill think they can determine that a Hebrew or Greek word is"egregiously mistranslated?"

How is it you with no known publicly published credentials in Hebrew or Greek, who often mispells Koine Greek words, and incorrectly identifies words in the New Testament, & has been shown to be in error in the most basic Greek, thinks you can provide multiple pet theories - re aion, aionios, olam and ad - which you claim are proven, yet have been for years unable to provide any support for them from any scholarly source, or even from an amateur opinion (like on a discussion forum such as this)?

 

[ClementofA]

•Second Clement 5:5 [A.D. 150]).
"If we do the will of Christ, we shall obtain rest; but if not, if we neglect his commandments, nothing will rescue us from eternal punishment"
• (Second Clement ibid., 17:7)
"But when they see how those who have sinned and who have denied Jesus by their words or by their deeds are punished with terrible torture in unquenchable fire, the righteous, who have done good, and who have endured tortures and have hated the luxuries of life, will give glory to their God saying, ‘There shall be hope for him that has served God with all his heart!’".
•Ignatius of Antioch[a student of John]
"Corrupters of families will not inherit the kingdom of God. And if they who do these things according to the flesh suffer death, how much more if a man corrupt by evil teaching the faith of God for the sake of which Jesus Christ was crucified? A man become so foul will depart into unquenchable fire: and so will anyone who listens to him" (Letter to the Ephesians 16:1–2 [A.D. 110]).
• Justin Martyr
"No more is it possible for the evildoer, the avaricious, and the treacherous to hide from God than it is for the virtuous. Every man will receive the eternal punishment or reward which his actions deserve. Indeed, if all men recognized this, no one would choose evil even for a short time, knowing that he would incur the eternal sentence of fire. On the contrary, he would take every means to control himself and to adorn himself in virtue, so that he might obtain the good gifts of God and escape the punishments"
• (First Apology 12 [A.D. 151]).
"We have been taught that only they may aim at immortality who have lived a holy and virtuous life near to God. We believe that they who live wickedly and do not repent will be punished in everlasting fire" (ibid., 21).
"[Jesus] shall come from the heavens in glory with his angelic host, when he shall raise the bodies of all the men who ever lived. Then he will clothe the worthy in immortality; but the wicked, clothed in eternal sensibility, he will commit to the eternal fire, along with the evil demons" (ibid., 52).
• The Martyrdom of Polycarp
"Fixing their minds on the grace of Christ, [the martyrs] despised worldly tortures and purchased eternal life with but a single hour. To them, the fire of their cruel torturers was cold. They kept before their eyes their escape from the eternal and unquenchable fire"
• (Martyrdom of Polycarp 2:3 [A.D. 155]).
Mathetes
"When you know what is the true life, that of heaven; when you despise the merely apparent death, which is temporal; when you fear the death which is real, and which is reserved for those who will be condemned to the everlasting fire, the fire which will punish even to the end those who are delivered to it, then you will condemn the deceit and error of the world" (Letter to Diognetus 10:7 [A.D. 160]).
• Athenagoras
"[W]e [Christians] are persuaded that when we are removed from this present life we shall live another life, better than the present one. . . . Then we shall abide near God and with God, changeless and free from suffering in the soul . . . or if we fall with the rest [of mankind], a worse one and in fire; for God has not made us as sheep or beasts of burden, a mere incidental work, that we should perish and be annihilated" (Plea for the Christians 31 [A.D. 177]).
• Theophilus of Antioch
"Give studious attention to the prophetic writings [the Bible] and they will lead you on a clearer path to escape the eternal punishments and to obtain the eternal good things of God. . . . [God] will examine everything and will judge justly, granting recompense to each according to merit. To those who seek immortality by the patient exercise of good works, he will give everlasting life, joy, peace, rest, and all good things. . . . For the unbelievers and for the contemptuous, and for those who do not submit to the truth but assent to iniquity, when they have been involved in adulteries, and fornications, and homosexualities, and avarice, and in lawless idolatries, there will be wrath and indignation, tribulation and anguish; and in the end, such men as these will be detained in everlasting fire" (To Autolycus 1:14 [A.D. 181])
• Irenaeus[Student of Polycarp a student of John]
"[God will] send the spiritual forces of wickedness, and the angels who transgressed and became apostates, and the impious, unjust, lawless, and blasphemous among men into everlasting fire" (Against Heresies 1:10:1 [A.D. 189]).
"The penalty increases for those who do not believe the Word of God and despise his coming. . . . t is not merely temporal, but eternal. To whomsoever the Lord shall say, ‘Depart from me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire,’ they will be damned forever" (ibid., 4:28:2).
• Tertullian
"After the present age is ended he will judge his worshipers for a reward of eternal life and the godless for a fire equally perpetual and unending"
• (Apology 18:3 [A.D. 197]).
"Then will the entire race of men be restored to receive its just deserts according to what it has merited in this period of good and evil, and thereafter to have these paid out in an immeasurable and unending eternity. Then there will be neither death again nor resurrection again, but we shall be always the same as we are now, without changing. The worshipers of God shall always be with God, clothed in the proper substance of eternity. But the godless and those who have not turned wholly to God will be punished in fire equally unending, and they shall have from the very nature of this fire, divine as it were, a supply of incorruptibility" (ibid., 44:12–13).
• Hippolytus
"Standing before [Christ’s] judgment, all of them, men, angels, and demons, crying out in one voice, shall say: ‘Just is your judgment!’ And the righteousness of that cry will be apparent in the recompense made to each. To those who have done well, everlasting enjoyment shall be given; while to the lovers of evil shall be given eternal punishment. The unquenchable and unending fire awaits these latter, and a certain fiery worm which does not die and which does not waste the body but continually bursts forth from the body with unceasing pain. No sleep will give them rest; no night will soothe them; no death will deliver them from punishment; no appeal of interceding friends will profit them" (Against the Greeks 3 [A.D. 212]).
• Minucius Felix
"I am not ignorant of the fact that many, in the consciousness of what they deserve, would rather hope than actually believe that there is nothing for them after death. They would prefer to be annihilated rather than be restored for punishment. . . . Nor is there either measure nor end to these torments. That clever fire burns the limbs and restores them, wears them away and yet sustains them, just as fiery thunderbolts strike bodies but do not consume them" (Octavius 34:12–5:3 [A.D. 226]).
• Cyprian of Carthage
"An ever-burning Gehenna and the punishment of being devoured by living flames will consume the condemned; nor will there be any way in which the tormented can ever have respite or be at an end. Souls along with their bodies will be preserved for suffering in unlimited agonies. . . . The grief at punishment will then be without the fruit of repentance; weeping will be useless, and prayer ineffectual. Too late will they believe in eternal punishment, who would not believe in eternal life" (To Demetrian 24 [A.D. 252]).
• Lactantius
"[T]he sacred writings inform us in what manner the wicked are to undergo punishment. For because they have committed sins in their bodies, they will again be clothed with flesh, that they may make atonement in their bodies; and yet it will not be that flesh with which God clothed man, like this our earthly body, but indestructible, and abiding forever, that it may be able to hold out against tortures and everlasting fire, the nature of which is different from this fire of ours, which we use for the necessary purposes of life, and which is extinguished unless it be sustained by the fuel of some material. But that divine fire always lives by itself, and flourishes without any nourishment. . . . The same divine fire, therefore, with one and the same force and power, will both burn the wicked and will form them again, and will replace as much as it shall consume of their bodies, and will supply itself with eternal nourishment. . . . Thus, without any wasting of bodies, which regain their substance, it will only burn and affect them with a sense of pain. But when [God] shall have judged the righteous, he will also try them with fire" (Divine Institutes 7:21 [A.D. 307]).
• Cyril of Jerusalem
"We shall be raised therefore, all with our bodies eternal, but not all with bodies alike: for if a man is righteous, he will receive a heavenly body, that he may be able worthily to hold converse with angels; but if a man is a sinner, he shall receive an eternal body, fitted to endure the penalties of sins, that he may burn eternally in fire, nor ever be consumed. And righteously will God assign this portion to either company; for we do nothing without the body. We blaspheme with the mouth, and with the mouth we pray. … Since then the body has been our minister in all things, it shall also share with us in the future the fruits of the past" (Catechetical Lectures 18:19 [A.D. 350]).​

In the early church universalism was the orthodox (biblical) view & may have been the orthodox (majority) view for centuries (see urls below) prior to the dark ages. It may also be today, or be on the way to becoming, the majority Christian view (see urls below):

Early Church Writings Fathers:
Church Fathers & Universalism since Early Church times
Indeed Very Many: Universalism in the Early Church
Early church writings re final destiny (paradise, Gospel, incarnation, Jehovah) - Christianity -  - City-Data Forum
Articles on the history of Christian Universalism throughout the centuries
https://s3.amazonaws.com/unsearchab.../©CPC+The+Ancient+History+of+Universalism.pdf
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Prevailing.shtml
Lawrence R. Farley

 

[Der Alte]

I would appreciate it if you could please stop addressing me as sir. I am clearly a woman but I'm not surprised that went right over your head as does most of Scripture. It is very much about the language, SIR. The original language of that verse you are reading is Koine Greek and if you did even the slightest research you would know that "eternal" and "punishment" are not the best translations-- an ad nauseam that would not even be necessary if politics had not dipped its tongue into the first "people's Bible" and monopolized Western theology for the first 400+ years. Thank God modern Bible translations are finally getting it together.
Thanks for your life story sir. What "same thing"? We have engaged in 0 debate because you refuse to acknowledge my refutations and then proudly claim there are no scriptures that poke holes in your theology.
We all have theologies. Don't sit on your high horse.

This is the UR fairy tale that UR-ites have been indoctrinated with which they believe without question. What, if any, qualifications in Greek equip you to determine "that 'eternal' and 'punishment' are not the best translations for "aionios" and "kolasis?"
My observations lead me to believe that the standard for UR-ites is that any translation which fits their UR assumptions/presuppositions is correct and any that don't are by default wrong.
Here the ECF define "aionos" whether they intended to or not.

Tertullian Apology Part I XLV
No doubt about it, we, who receive our awards under the judgment of an all-seeing God, and who look forward to eternal punishment from Him for sin, — we alone make real effort to attain a blameless life, under the influence of our ampler knowledge, the impossibility of concealment, and the greatness of the threatened torment, not merely long-enduring but everlasting, fearing Him, whom he too should fear who the fearing judges, — even God, I mean, and not the proconsul.​

Tertullian defines "aionos" as opposite "long enduring."

Polycarp Epistle to the Philippians
And, looking to the grace of Christ, they despised all the torments of this world, redeeming themselves from eternal punishment by [the suffering of] a single hour. For this reason the fire of their savage executioners appeared cool to them. For they kept before their view escape from that fire which is eternal and never shall be quenched, and looked forward with the eyes of their heart to those good things which are laid up for such as endure; things “which ear hath not heard, nor eye seen, neither have entered into the heart of man,” (1Co_2:9) but were revealed by the Lord to them, inasmuch as they were no longer men, but had already become angels.​

Here Tertullian defines "ainios fire" as fire that never shall be quenched.

Ignatius The Epistle of Ignatius to the Romans. Chapter 3[student of John]
I desire the bread of God, the heavenly bread, the bread of life, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became afterwards of the seed of David and Abraham; and I desire the drink of God, namely His blood, which is incorruptible love and eternal life.​

Here Ignatius defines "aionios" as "eternal" by pairing it with "incorruptible love."

The First Apology of Justin Chap XIII
For they proclaim our madness to consist in this, that we give to a crucified man a place second to the unchangeable and eternal God, the Creator of all; for they do not discern the mystery that is herein, to which, as we make it plain to you, we pray you to give heed.​

Here Justin defines "aionios" as "eternal" by pairing it with "unchangeable."

Irenaeus Against Heresies. Book IV. Chap XX [student of Polycarp, student of John]
5. For God is powerful in all things, having been seen at that time indeed, prophetically through the Spirit, and seen, too, adoptively through the Son; and He shall also be seen paternally in the kingdom of heaven, the Spirit truly preparing man in the Son66 of God, and the Son leading him to the Father, while the Father, too, confers [upon him] incorruption for eternal life, which comes to every one from the fact of his seeing God.​

Here Justin defines "aionios" as "eternal" by pairing it with "incorruption."

Justin Martyr The First Apology of Justin. Chap VIII
This, then, to speak shortly, is what we expect and have learned from Christ, and teach. And Plato, in like manner, used to say that Rhadamanthus and Minos would punish the wicked who came before them; and we say that the same thing will be done, but at the hand of Christ, and upon the wicked in the same bodies united again to their spirits which are now to undergo everlasting punishment; and not only, as Plato said, for a period of a thousand years.​

Here Justin defines "aionos" as "eternal" by contrasting it with "a thousand years."

Irenaeus Against Heresies. Book IV.Chap VI[student of Polycarp, student of John]
5. And for this purpose did the Father reveal the Son, that through His instrumentality He might be manifested to all, and might receive those righteous ones who believe in Him into incorruption and everlasting enjoyment (now, to believe in Him is to do His will); but He shall righteously shut out into the darkness which they have chosen for themselves, those who do not believe, and who do consequently avoid His light.​

Here Justin defines "aionos" as "eternal" by pairing it with "incorruption."

Theophilus to Autolycus.Book I. Chap XIV
To those who by patient continuance in well-doing (Rom_2:7) seek immortality, He will give life everlasting, joy, peace, rest, and abundance of good things, which neither hath eye seen, nor ear heard, nor hath it entered into the heart of man to conceive.​

Here Theophilus defines "ainios" by pairing it with "inmortality."

Athenagoras A Plea for the Christians.Chap. X. –
That we are not atheists, therefore, seeing that we acknowledge one God, uncreated, eternal, invisible, impassible, incomprehensible, illimitable, who is apprehended by the understanding only and the reason, who is encompassed by light, and beauty, and spirit, and power ineffable,by whom the universe has been created through His Logos, and set in order, and is kept in being.​

Here Athenagorus defines "aionios" as "eternal by pairing it with "uncreated, invisible, impassible, incomprehensible, illimitable." That should be enough adjectives to convince anyone.

Clement of Alexandria The Instructor. [Paedagogus.] Book I.
Wherefore also the Scripture says, “The law was given through Moses,” (Joh_1:17) not by Moses, but by the Word, and through Moses His servant. Wherefore it was only temporary; but eternal grace and truth were by Jesus Christ.​

Here Clement defines "aionios" as eternal by contrasting it with "only temporary."

Clement of Alexandria The Stromata, Or Miscellanies. Book I.
Chap. I. “Labour,” says the Lord, “not for the meat which perisheth, but for that which endureth to everlasting life.” (Joh_6:27)​

Here Clement defines "aionios" by contrasting it with "meat that perishes."

Clement of Alexandria Second Epistle Chap VI
For if we do the will of Christ, we shall find rest; otherwise, nothing shall deliver us from eternal punishment, if we disobey His commandments. For thus also saith the Scripture in Ezekiel, “If Noah, Job, and Daniel should rise up, they should not deliver their children in captivity.” (Eze_14:14, Eze_14:20) Now, if men so eminently righteous are not able by their righteousness to deliver their children, how239 can we hope to enter into the royal residence 240 of God unless we keep our baptism holy and undefiled? ​

Here Clement defines "aionos" as "eternal" by saying "nothing shall deliver [the unrighteous] from "ainios punishment."

Tertullian Part First — Apologetic Chap XLV
On this ground Epicurus makes light of all suffering and pain, maintaining that if it is small, it is contemptible; and if it is great, it is not long-continued. No doubt about it, we, who receive our awards under the judgment of an all-seeing God, and who look forward to eternal punishment from Him for sin, — we alone make real effort to attain a blameless life, under the influence of our ampler knowledge, the impossibility of concealment, and the greatness of the threatened torment, not merely long-enduring but everlasting, fearing Him, whom he too should fear who the fearing judges, — even God, I mean, and not the proconsul.​

Here Tertullian defines "aionos" by contrasting it with "not merely long enduring."

 

[agapelove]

How is it that folks with no formal education in Hebrew or Greek, who could not locate a Hebrew verb, or parse a Greek verb and do not know a hithpael from a hat rack or an aorist from an ant hill think they can determine that a Hebrew or Greek word is"egregiously mistranslated?"

No need to come for my Greek credentials because I never claimed to have any. I quote real scholars who do.

Clement of Alexandria (Stromateis 4.24; 7.16) defines kolasis as pure discipline, and timoria as the return of evil for evil.

Aulus Gellius (The Attic Nights 7.4) says that kolasis is given that a man may be corrected; timoria is given that dignity and authority may be vindicated.

Philo (De Præmiis and Poenis Tom. II, pp. 19-20) who was a contemporary of Jesus used the SAME PHRASE here “It is better not to promise than not to give prompt assistance, for no blame follows in the former case, but in the latter there is dissatisfaction from the weaker class, and a deep hatred and æonian punishment (kolasis) from such as are more powerful.” to describe how governments chastise those who break contracts.

I have also previously quoted Aristotle and Plato but they did not qualify in your eyes.

Furthermore, let's consider the history of the word. I'm sure you know that kolasis is a non-ethic word that came from farming (pruning of trees). Where else does Jesus use explicit agriculture analogies?

Romans 11: Ingrafted Branches
"Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring! .... For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? If the part of the dough offered as first fruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches. If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!"

The section immediately following this is titled "ALL OF ISRAEL SAVED".

•Second Clement 5:5 [A.D. 150]).
"If we do the will of Christ, we shall obtain rest; but if not, if we neglect his commandments, nothing will rescue us from eternal punishment"
• (Second Clement ibid., 17:7)
"But when they see how those who have sinned and who have denied Jesus by their words or by their deeds are punished with terrible torture in unquenchable fire, the righteous, who have done good, and who have endured tortures and have hated the luxuries of life, will give glory to their God saying, ‘There shall be hope for him that has served God with all his heart!’".
•Ignatius of Antioch[a student of John]
"Corrupters of families will not inherit the kingdom of God. And if they who do these things according to the flesh suffer death, how much more if a man corrupt by evil teaching the faith of God for the sake of which Jesus Christ was crucified? A man become so foul will depart into unquenchable fire: and so will anyone who listens to him" (Letter to the Ephesians 16:1–2 [A.D. 110]).
• Justin Martyr
"No more is it possible for the evildoer, the avaricious, and the treacherous to hide from God than it is for the virtuous. Every man will receive the eternal punishment or reward which his actions deserve. Indeed, if all men recognized this, no one would choose evil even for a short time, knowing that he would incur the eternal sentence of fire. On the contrary, he would take every means to control himself and to adorn himself in virtue, so that he might obtain the good gifts of God and escape the punishments"
• (First Apology 12 [A.D. 151]).
"We have been taught that only they may aim at immortality who have lived a holy and virtuous life near to God. We believe that they who live wickedly and do not repent will be punished in everlasting fire" (ibid., 21).
"[Jesus] shall come from the heavens in glory with his angelic host, when he shall raise the bodies of all the men who ever lived. Then he will clothe the worthy in immortality; but the wicked, clothed in eternal sensibility, he will commit to the eternal fire, along with the evil demons" (ibid., 52).
• The Martyrdom of Polycarp
"Fixing their minds on the grace of Christ, [the martyrs] despised worldly tortures and purchased eternal life with but a single hour. To them, the fire of their cruel torturers was cold. They kept before their eyes their escape from the eternal and unquenchable fire"
• (Martyrdom of Polycarp 2:3 [A.D. 155]).
Mathetes
"When you know what is the true life, that of heaven; when you despise the merely apparent death, which is temporal; when you fear the death which is real, and which is reserved for those who will be condemned to the everlasting fire, the fire which will punish even to the end those who are delivered to it, then you will condemn the deceit and error of the world" (Letter to Diognetus 10:7 [A.D. 160]).
• Athenagoras
"[W]e [Christians] are persuaded that when we are removed from this present life we shall live another life, better than the present one. . . . Then we shall abide near God and with God, changeless and free from suffering in the soul . . . or if we fall with the rest [of mankind], a worse one and in fire; for God has not made us as sheep or beasts of burden, a mere incidental work, that we should perish and be annihilated" (Plea for the Christians 31 [A.D. 177]).
• Theophilus of Antioch
"Give studious attention to the prophetic writings [the Bible] and they will lead you on a clearer path to escape the eternal punishments and to obtain the eternal good things of God. . . . [God] will examine everything and will judge justly, granting recompense to each according to merit. To those who seek immortality by the patient exercise of good works, he will give everlasting life, joy, peace, rest, and all good things. . . . For the unbelievers and for the contemptuous, and for those who do not submit to the truth but assent to iniquity, when they have been involved in adulteries, and fornications, and homosexualities, and avarice, and in lawless idolatries, there will be wrath and indignation, tribulation and anguish; and in the end, such men as these will be detained in everlasting fire" (To Autolycus 1:14 [A.D. 181])
• Irenaeus[Student of Polycarp a student of John]
"[God will] send the spiritual forces of wickedness, and the angels who transgressed and became apostates, and the impious, unjust, lawless, and blasphemous among men into everlasting fire" (Against Heresies 1:10:1 [A.D. 189]).
"The penalty increases for those who do not believe the Word of God and despise his coming. . . . t is not merely temporal, but eternal. To whomsoever the Lord shall say, ‘Depart from me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire,’ they will be damned forever" (ibid., 4:28:2).
• Tertullian
"After the present age is ended he will judge his worshipers for a reward of eternal life and the godless for a fire equally perpetual and unending"
• (Apology 18:3 [A.D. 197]).
"Then will the entire race of men be restored to receive its just deserts according to what it has merited in this period of good and evil, and thereafter to have these paid out in an immeasurable and unending eternity. Then there will be neither death again nor resurrection again, but we shall be always the same as we are now, without changing. The worshipers of God shall always be with God, clothed in the proper substance of eternity. But the godless and those who have not turned wholly to God will be punished in fire equally unending, and they shall have from the very nature of this fire, divine as it were, a supply of incorruptibility" (ibid., 44:12–13).
• Hippolytus
"Standing before [Christ’s] judgment, all of them, men, angels, and demons, crying out in one voice, shall say: ‘Just is your judgment!’ And the righteousness of that cry will be apparent in the recompense made to each. To those who have done well, everlasting enjoyment shall be given; while to the lovers of evil shall be given eternal punishment. The unquenchable and unending fire awaits these latter, and a certain fiery worm which does not die and which does not waste the body but continually bursts forth from the body with unceasing pain. No sleep will give them rest; no night will soothe them; no death will deliver them from punishment; no appeal of interceding friends will profit them" (Against the Greeks 3 [A.D. 212]).
• Minucius Felix
"I am not ignorant of the fact that many, in the consciousness of what they deserve, would rather hope than actually believe that there is nothing for them after death. They would prefer to be annihilated rather than be restored for punishment. . . . Nor is there either measure nor end to these torments. That clever fire burns the limbs and restores them, wears them away and yet sustains them, just as fiery thunderbolts strike bodies but do not consume them" (Octavius 34:12–5:3 [A.D. 226]).
• Cyprian of Carthage
"An ever-burning Gehenna and the punishment of being devoured by living flames will consume the condemned; nor will there be any way in which the tormented can ever have respite or be at an end. Souls along with their bodies will be preserved for suffering in unlimited agonies. . . . The grief at punishment will then be without the fruit of repentance; weeping will be useless, and prayer ineffectual. Too late will they believe in eternal punishment, who would not believe in eternal life" (To Demetrian 24 [A.D. 252]).
• Lactantius
"[T]he sacred writings inform us in what manner the wicked are to undergo punishment. For because they have committed sins in their bodies, they will again be clothed with flesh, that they may make atonement in their bodies; and yet it will not be that flesh with which God clothed man, like this our earthly body, but indestructible, and abiding forever, that it may be able to hold out against tortures and everlasting fire, the nature of which is different from this fire of ours, which we use for the necessary purposes of life, and which is extinguished unless it be sustained by the fuel of some material. But that divine fire always lives by itself, and flourishes without any nourishment. . . . The same divine fire, therefore, with one and the same force and power, will both burn the wicked and will form them again, and will replace as much as it shall consume of their bodies, and will supply itself with eternal nourishment. . . . Thus, without any wasting of bodies, which regain their substance, it will only burn and affect them with a sense of pain. But when [God] shall have judged the righteous, he will also try them with fire" (Divine Institutes 7:21 [A.D. 307]).
• Cyril of Jerusalem
"We shall be raised therefore, all with our bodies eternal, but not all with bodies alike: for if a man is righteous, he will receive a heavenly body, that he may be able worthily to hold converse with angels; but if a man is a sinner, he shall receive an eternal body, fitted to endure the penalties of sins, that he may burn eternally in fire, nor ever be consumed. And righteously will God assign this portion to either company; for we do nothing without the body. We blaspheme with the mouth, and with the mouth we pray. … Since then the body has been our minister in all things, it shall also share with us in the future the fruits of the past" (Catechetical Lectures 18:19 [A.D. 350]).​

Listen.... perhaps we will never reach a place where we agree on this word. You have reputable sources but you cannot deny that our sources are also reputable. I will use my sources to argue that "eternal punishment" is for our benefit while you use your sources to argue that there is no benefit at all.

Like I said before... we must begin to look beyond this ONE WORD. What does God's redemptive history throughout time show us? What is revealed about God's character in the ministry of Christ? How has God revealed his ways to YOU personally?

How can you so proudly claim that God is okay with aimless punishment and then sing in church "For I know the plans I have for you, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future!"

Do you see how your view of God is a paradox?

 

[Der Alte]

No need to come for my Greek credentials because I never claimed to have any. I quote real scholars who do.
Clement of Alexandria (Stromateis 4.24; 7.16) defines kolasis as pure discipline, and timoria as the return of evil for evil.....
...

Have you actually read any of the sources you are "quoting?" This"quote" is second hand or probably third hand from a UR source, is from (William Barclay. The Apostles Creed. p. I8). publ. by Westminster John Knox Press) which is quoted in Divinization: The Hidden Teaching within Divine Wisdom by Efstratios Papanagioton.
Since we have this little credibility problem I don't think there is any point in continuing.

 

[agapelove]

Have you actually read any of the sources you are "quoting?" This"quote" is second hand or probably third hand from a UR source, is from (William Barclay. The Apostles Creed. p. I8). publ. by Westminster John Knox Press) which is quoted in Divinization: The Hidden Teaching within Divine Wisdom by Efstratios Papanagioton.
Since we have this little credibility problem I don't think there is any point in continuing.

Not sure why you seem to have a problem with everybody's sources while you parade your Encyclopedia pages all over CF? I will gladly bow out of this discussion, you offer nothing meaningful.

 

[Blade]

You know Jude.. praise God.. sad but true. A place.. we don't anyone to go to. And now today.. look at whats getting preached. No hell, we well get judged and all well be let in to heaven. This is not written.

Shows us the time is almost over.

 

[Der Alte]

Not sure why you seem to have a problem with everybody's sources while you parade your Encyclopedia pages all over CF? I will gladly bow out of this discussion, you offer nothing meaningful.

Of course my posts are not meaningful to UR-ites.
As I have shown you copy/pasted a second/third hand quote without identifying the source. When one does quote a 2nd/3rd hand source one should say e.g. "Source 'X' as quoted in source 'Y' said such and such." If a student writing a paper for college did as you did they would get an "F" on the paper and maybe expelled.
OTH I only quote sources which I have actually read and which are usually readily available and which I usually link to. Quoting a "source" which is not readily available is not much different than no source at all.
It's regrettable that you do not know the difference.

 

[Andre_b]

No need to come for my Greek credentials because I never claimed to have any. I quote real scholars who do.

Clement of Alexandria (Stromateis 4.24; 7.16) defines kolasis as pure discipline, and timoria as the return of evil for evil.

Aulus Gellius (The Attic Nights 7.4) says that kolasis is given that a man may be corrected; timoria is given that dignity and authority may be vindicated.

Philo (De Præmiis and Poenis Tom. II, pp. 19-20) who was a contemporary of Jesus used the SAME PHRASE here “It is better not to promise than not to give prompt assistance, for no blame follows in the former case, but in the latter there is dissatisfaction from the weaker class, and a deep hatred and æonian punishment (kolasis) from such as are more powerful.” to describe how governments chastise those who break contracts.

I have also previously quoted Aristotle and Plato but they did not qualify in your eyes.

Furthermore, let's consider the history of the word. I'm sure you know that kolasis is a non-ethic word that came from farming (pruning of trees). Where else does Jesus use explicit agriculture analogies?

Romans 11: Ingrafted Branches
"Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring! .... For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? If the part of the dough offered as first fruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches. If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!"

The section immediately following this is titled "ALL OF ISRAEL SAVED".



Listen.... perhaps we will never reach a place where we agree on this word. You have reputable sources but you cannot deny that our sources are also reputable. I will use my sources to argue that "eternal punishment" is for our benefit while you use your sources to argue that there is no benefit at all.

Like I said before... we must begin to look beyond this ONE WORD. What does God's redemptive history throughout time show us? What is revealed about God's character in the ministry of Christ? How has God revealed his ways to YOU personally?

How can you so proudly claim that God is okay with aimless punishment and then sing in church "For I know the plans I have for you, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future!"

Do you see how your view of God is a paradox?

Wow now this is what I call a lot of adding to scripture. Too much quoting from esoteric sources... why don't you quote from the gnostic gospels or Simon magus while your at it?

 

[agapelove]

Wow now this is what I call a lot of adding to scripture. Too much quoting from esoteric sources... why don't you quote from the gnostic gospels or Simon magus while your at it?

Hello Andre. Welcome to the conversation. Normally I would not include external sources but my friend @Der Alte loves them and measures the worthiness of an argument by how many sources are included.

I'm confused why you think I am adding to scripture. I quoted the entire Romans 11 passage word for word which supports my belief fairly well. Was that source too "esoteric" for you?

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

• St. Irenaeus of Lyons - Against Heresies 4:28:2 (189 A.D.)

"Thus also The Punishment of those who do not believe the Word of God, and despise his advent, and are turned away backwards, is increased; Being Not Merely Temporal, But Eternal. For to whomever the Lord shall say, “Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire” [Mt 25:41],
These Will Be Damned Forever!"

.
.

 

[ClementofA]

This is the UR fairy tale that UR-ites have been indoctrinated with which they believe without question. What, if any, qualifications in Greek equip you to determine "that 'eternal' and 'punishment' are not the best translations for "aionios" and "kolasis?"

How is it you with no known publicly published credentials in Hebrew or Greek, who often mispells Koine Greek words, and incorrectly identifies words in the New Testament, & has been shown to be in error in the most basic Greek, thinks you can provide multiple pet theories - re aion, aionios, olam and ad - which you claim are proven, yet have been for years unable to provide any support for them from any scholarly source, or even from an amateur opinion (like on a discussion forum such as this)?

Here the ECF define "aionos" whether they intended to or not.

Tertullian Apology Part I XLV
No doubt about it, we, who receive our awards under the judgment of an all-seeing God, and who look forward to eternal punishment from Him for sin, — we alone make real effort to attain a blameless life, under the influence of our ampler knowledge, the impossibility of concealment, and the greatness of the threatened torment, not merely long-enduring but everlasting, fearing Him, whom he too should fear who the fearing judges, — even God, I mean, and not the proconsul.​

Tertullian defines "aionos" as opposite "long enduring."

Polycarp Epistle to the Philippians
And, looking to the grace of Christ, they despised all the torments of this world, redeeming themselves from eternal punishment by [the suffering of] a single hour. For this reason the fire of their savage executioners appeared cool to them. For they kept before their view escape from that fire which is eternal and never shall be quenched, and looked forward with the eyes of their heart to those good things which are laid up for such as endure; things “which ear hath not heard, nor eye seen, neither have entered into the heart of man,” (1Co_2:9) but were revealed by the Lord to them, inasmuch as they were no longer men, but had already become angels.​

Here Tertullian defines "ainios fire" as fire that never shall be quenched.

Ignatius The Epistle of Ignatius to the Romans. Chapter 3[student of John]
I desire the bread of God, the heavenly bread, the bread of life, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became afterwards of the seed of David and Abraham; and I desire the drink of God, namely His blood, which is incorruptible love and eternal life.​

Here Ignatius defines "aionios" as "eternal" by pairing it with "incorruptible love."

The First Apology of Justin Chap XIII
For they proclaim our madness to consist in this, that we give to a crucified man a place second to the unchangeable and eternal God, the Creator of all; for they do not discern the mystery that is herein, to which, as we make it plain to you, we pray you to give heed.​

Here Justin defines "aionios" as "eternal" by pairing it with "unchangeable."

Irenaeus Against Heresies. Book IV. Chap XX [student of Polycarp, student of John]
5. For God is powerful in all things, having been seen at that time indeed, prophetically through the Spirit, and seen, too, adoptively through the Son; and He shall also be seen paternally in the kingdom of heaven, the Spirit truly preparing man in the Son66 of God, and the Son leading him to the Father, while the Father, too, confers [upon him] incorruption for eternal life, which comes to every one from the fact of his seeing God.​

Here Justin defines "aionios" as "eternal" by pairing it with "incorruption."

Justin Martyr The First Apology of Justin. Chap VIII
This, then, to speak shortly, is what we expect and have learned from Christ, and teach. And Plato, in like manner, used to say that Rhadamanthus and Minos would punish the wicked who came before them; and we say that the same thing will be done, but at the hand of Christ, and upon the wicked in the same bodies united again to their spirits which are now to undergo everlasting punishment; and not only, as Plato said, for a period of a thousand years.​

Here Justin defines "aionos" as "eternal" by contrasting it with "a thousand years."

Irenaeus Against Heresies. Book IV.Chap VI[student of Polycarp, student of John]
5. And for this purpose did the Father reveal the Son, that through His instrumentality He might be manifested to all, and might receive those righteous ones who believe in Him into incorruption and everlasting enjoyment (now, to believe in Him is to do His will); but He shall righteously shut out into the darkness which they have chosen for themselves, those who do not believe, and who do consequently avoid His light.​

Here Justin defines "aionos" as "eternal" by pairing it with "incorruption."

Theophilus to Autolycus.Book I. Chap XIV
To those who by patient continuance in well-doing (Rom_2:7) seek immortality, He will give life everlasting, joy, peace, rest, and abundance of good things, which neither hath eye seen, nor ear heard, nor hath it entered into the heart of man to conceive.​

Here Theophilus defines "ainios" by pairing it with "inmortality."

Athenagoras A Plea for the Christians.Chap. X. –
That we are not atheists, therefore, seeing that we acknowledge one God, uncreated, eternal, invisible, impassible, incomprehensible, illimitable, who is apprehended by the understanding only and the reason, who is encompassed by light, and beauty, and spirit, and power ineffable,by whom the universe has been created through His Logos, and set in order, and is kept in being.​

Here Athenagorus defines "aionios" as "eternal by pairing it with "uncreated, invisible, impassible, incomprehensible, illimitable." That should be enough adjectives to convince anyone.

Clement of Alexandria The Instructor. [Paedagogus.] Book I.
Wherefore also the Scripture says, “The law was given through Moses,” (Joh_1:17) not by Moses, but by the Word, and through Moses His servant. Wherefore it was only temporary; but eternal grace and truth were by Jesus Christ.​

Here Clement defines "aionios" as eternal by contrasting it with "only temporary."

Clement of Alexandria The Stromata, Or Miscellanies. Book I.
Chap. I. “Labour,” says the Lord, “not for the meat which perisheth, but for that which endureth to everlasting life.” (Joh_6:27)​

Here Clement defines "aionios" by contrasting it with "meat that perishes."

Clement of Alexandria Second Epistle Chap VI
For if we do the will of Christ, we shall find rest; otherwise, nothing shall deliver us from eternal punishment, if we disobey His commandments. For thus also saith the Scripture in Ezekiel, “If Noah, Job, and Daniel should rise up, they should not deliver their children in captivity.” (Eze_14:14, Eze_14:20) Now, if men so eminently righteous are not able by their righteousness to deliver their children, how239 can we hope to enter into the royal residence 240 of God unless we keep our baptism holy and undefiled? ​

Here Clement defines "aionos" as "eternal" by saying "nothing shall deliver [the unrighteous] from "ainios punishment."

Tertullian Part First — Apologetic Chap XLV
On this ground Epicurus makes light of all suffering and pain, maintaining that if it is small, it is contemptible; and if it is great, it is not long-continued. No doubt about it, we, who receive our awards under the judgment of an all-seeing God, and who look forward to eternal punishment from Him for sin, — we alone make real effort to attain a blameless life, under the influence of our ampler knowledge, the impossibility of concealment, and the greatness of the threatened torment, not merely long-enduring but everlasting, fearing Him, whom he too should fear who the fearing judges, — even God, I mean, and not the proconsul.​

Here Tertullian defines "aionos" by contrasting it with "not merely long enduring."

Der Alte said: "Here the ECF define "aionos" whether they intended to or not."

Until you can provide a Greek text showing aionios (which you mispelled aionos) appears in any of those passages for which you have provided merely an English translation, your post has not proven anything. BTW many of the ECF writings are not written in Koine Greek, but Latin.