Hades Is A Real Place of Torment and Agony

[Der Alte]

***

Major: There is no Scripture that will answer what you ask.
There is also no Scripture that declares our God whose essence is FIRE, (Consuming Pur), and in whose glorious Presence the ta pavnte will dwell, loses anything!
God IS the Source, Guide & Goal of the all.

Logical fallacy. Argument from silence.
You are correct God does not "lose" anyone but He does give some over.

Romans 1:24
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Romans 1:26
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Romans 1:28
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Matthew 7:22-23
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Psalms 81:11-12
11 But my people would not hearken to my voice; and Israel would none of me.
12 So I gave them up unto their own hearts' lust: and they walked in their own counsels.
Revelation 22:11
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.​

The transliteration of τα παντα is ta panta. The Greek letter that looks like the English letter "v" is "nun."

 

[Major1]

Major: There is no Scripture that will answer what you ask.

There is also no Scripture that declares our God whose essence is FIRE, (Consuming Pur), and in whose glorious Presence the ta pavnte will dwell, loses anything!

God IS the Source, Guide & Goal of the all.

FINALLY...There it is!!!

Mr. Finlinen states that...…….
"There is no Scripture that will answer what you ask. "

Mr. Finlinen has just admitted what I and everyone else who read the Bible know.....
"THERE ARE NO BIBLE SCRIPTURES WHICH SUPPORT THE UNIVERSALISTS THEOLOGY!!!! HE SAYS THAT THERE WILL BE NO SALVATION FROM ANYONE WHO IS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE".

Logical fallacy. Argument from silence.
You are correct God does not "lose" anyone but He does give some over.

Romans 1:24
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Romans 1:26
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Romans 1:28
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Matthew 7:22-23
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Psalms 81:11-12
11 But my people would not hearken to my voice; and Israel would none of me.
12 So I gave them up unto their own hearts' lust: and they walked in their own counsels.
Revelation 22:11
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.​

The transliteration of τα παντα is ta panta. The Greek letter that looks like the English letter "v" is "nun."

Agreed!

 

[FineLinen]

FINALLY...There it is!!!

Mr. Finlinen states that...…….
"There is no Scripture that will answer what you ask. "

Mr. Finlinen has just admitted what I and everyone else who read the Bible know.....
"THERE ARE NO BIBLE SCRIPTURES WHICH SUPPORT THE UNIVERSALISTS THEOLOGY!!!! HE SAYS THAT THERE WILL BE NO SALVATION FROM ANYONE WHO IS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE".


Agreed!

Big Guy: There is no Scripture that will answer what you ask.

There is also no Scripture that declares our God whose essence is FIRE, (Consuming Pur), and in whose glorious Presence the ta pavnte will dwell, loses anything!

God IS the Source, Guide & Goal of the all.

 

[FineLinen]

The Master of Reconciliation in His final words declares...

"Father forgive them, for they know not what they do."

The lunatics of this broken world still do not know what they do!

Unfortunately > > >

The Saviour of all mankind no longer forgives?

Too bad, so sad, the forgiveness credits have run out.

 

[Major1]

Big Guy: There is no Scripture that will answer what you ask.

There is also no Scripture that declares our God whose essence is FIRE, (Consuming Pur), and in whose glorious Presence the ta pavnte will dwell, loses anything!

God IS the Source, Guide & Goal of the all.

Dosen't matter "MOONBEAM". What is important to this thread is your statement of...….

"There is no Scripture that will answer what you ask that says everyone placed in the Lake of Fire will be saved and removed from the LOF"!

That means that the Universalism dogma is totally an OPINION form men who have rejected the Word of God.

 

[Major1]

The Master of Reconciliation in His final words declares...

"Father forgive them, for they know not what they do."

The lunatics of this broken world still do not know what they do!

Unfortunately > > >

The Saviour of all mankind no longer forgives?

Too bad, so sad, the forgiveness credits have run out.

Dosen't matter. What is important to this thread is your statement of...….

"There is no Scripture that will answer what you ask that says everyone placed in the Lake of Fire will be saved and removed from the LOF"!

That means that the Universalism dogma is totally an OPINION form men who have rejected the Word of God.

 

[Major1]

Big Guy: There is no Scripture that will answer what you ask.

There is also no Scripture that declares our God whose essence is FIRE, (Consuming Pur), and in whose glorious Presence the ta pavnte will dwell, loses anything!

God IS the Source, Guide & Goal of the all.

Agreed!!!! ALL who come to Jesus Christ will reach the goal line of eternal heaven.

 

[Major1]

Logical fallacy. Argument from silence.
You are correct God does not "lose" anyone but He does give some over.

Romans 1:24
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Romans 1:26
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Romans 1:28
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Matthew 7:22-23
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Psalms 81:11-12
11 But my people would not hearken to my voice; and Israel would none of me.
12 So I gave them up unto their own hearts' lust: and they walked in their own counsels.
Revelation 22:11
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.​

The transliteration of τα παντα is ta panta. The Greek letter that looks like the English letter "v" is "nun."

My brother....our friend "Moonbeam" or as some call him, @FineLinen" has cleared up this whole conversation when he stated............….

"THERE ARE NO BIBLE SCRIPTURES WHICH SUPPORT THE UNIVERSALISTS THEOLOGY!!!! HE SAYS THAT THERE WILL BE NO SALVATION FROM ANYONE WHO IS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE".

 

[Major1]

Do not be silly!

And, as I say, I do in fact—and quite intentionally—use very strong language about certain teachings I find abominable.

I will not feign contrition on that score. Nor should I. My characterizations of the teaching of eternal conscious torment are perfectly apt and fair, and they are directed as much at me as at any other Christian.

I know how coarsened our consciences can become when trying to justify to ourselves what we think is required of us by faith and tradition. But, frankly, the burden of proof—and of a certain seemly reticence—falls quite on the other side of the room in this debate.

After all, why should anyone feel the need to apologize for denouncing an idea that looks fairly monstrous from any angle, one whose principal use down the centuries has arguably been the psychological abuse and terrorization of children?

Who, after all, is saying something more objectively atrocious, or more aggressively perverse?

The person who claims that every newborn infant enters the world justly under the threat of eternal dereliction, and that a good God imposes or permits the imposition of a state of eternal agony on finite, created rational beings as part of the mystery of his love or sovereignty or justice?

Or the person who observes that such ideas are cruel and barbarous and depraved?

Which of these two should really be, if not ashamed of his or her words, at least hesitant, ambivalent, and even a little penitent in uttering them?

And which has a better right to moral indignation at what the other has said? And, really, don’t these questions answer themselves?

A belief does not merit unconditional reverence just because it is old, nor should it be immune to being challenged in terms commensurate to the scandal it seems to pose.

And the belief that a God of infinite intellect, justice, love, and power would condemn rational beings to a state of perpetual torment, or would allow them to condemn themselves on account of their own delusion, pain, and anger, is probably worse than merely scandalous.

It may be the single most horrid notion the religious imagination has ever conceived, and the most irrational and spiritually corrosive picture of existence possible.

And anyone who thinks that such claims are too strong or caustic, while at the same time finding the traditional notion of a hell of everlasting suffering perfectly unobjectionable, needs to consider whether he or she is really thinking clearly about it at all. If anything, my rhetoric in the book may have been far, far too mild. -David B. Hart-

I do not find your words HARD or CAUSTIC at all. In fact, I accept them exactly as you posted them when you said...….

Mr. Finlinen has just admitted what I and everyone else who read the Bible know.....
"THERE ARE NO BIBLE SCRIPTURES WHICH SUPPORT THE UNIVERSALISTS THEOLOGY!!!! HE SAYS THAT THERE WILL BE NO SALVATION FROM ANYONE WHO IS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE".

I take him at his word!

 

[FineLinen]

I do not find your words HARD or CAUSTIC at all. In fact, I accept them exactly as you posted them when you said...….

Mr. Finlinen has just admitted what I and everyone else who read the Bible know.....
"THERE ARE NO BIBLE SCRIPTURES WHICH SUPPORT THE UNIVERSALISTS THEOLOGY!!!! HE SAYS THAT THERE WILL BE NO SALVATION FROM ANYONE WHO IS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE".

I take him at his word!

 

[FineLinen]

Dosen't matter.

Will you listen to this seasoned rascal of doom and despair, Oh Lord?

"It dosen't matter."

The Master of Reconciliation in His final words declares...

"Father forgive them, for they know not what they do."

The lunatics of this broken world still do not know what they do!

Unfortunately > > >

The Saviour of all mankind no longer forgives?

Too bad, so sad, the forgiveness credits have run out.

 

[Major1]

Mr. Finlinen has just admitted what I and everyone else who read the Bible know.....
"THERE ARE NO BIBLE SCRIPTURES WHICH SUPPORT THE UNIVERSALISTS THEOLOGY!!!! HE SAYS THAT THERE WILL BE NO SALVATION FROM ANYONE WHO IS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE".

I take him at his word!

 

[Major1]

Will you listen to this seasoned rascal of doom and despair, Oh Lord?

"It dosen't matter."

The Master of Reconciliation in His final words declares...

"Father forgive them, for they know not what they do."

The lunatics of this broken world still do not know what they do!

Unfortunately > > >

The Saviour of all mankind no longer forgives?

Too bad, so sad, the forgiveness credits have run out.

Directly from Moonbeams own mouth/mind/keyboard...…….
"THERE ARE NO BIBLE SCRIPTURES WHICH SUPPORT THE UNIVERSALISTS THEOLOGY!!!! HE SAYS THAT THERE WILL BE NO SALVATION FROM ANYONE WHO IS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE".

 

[FineLinen]

Agreed!!!! ALL who come to Jesus Christ will reach the goal line of eternal heaven.

Not even warm Major: You have no idea of the scope of ta pavnte!

You believe the vast vast segments of our Father do not end in Him. You believe in the god of limited (minus UN).

The "goal line" is not the destination, He is!

Source of ta pavnte. Guide of ta pavnte, Goal of ta pavnte.

 

[FineLinen]

By these three prepositions Paul ascribes the universe (ta panta) with all the phenomena concerning creation, redemption, providence to God as the…

Ex= The Source

Di= The Agent

Eiv= The Goal

The Koine, ta pavnte, is the strongest word for all in the Scriptures; it literally means the all.

ta pavnte/ ta panta, “in the absolute sense of the whole of creation, the all things, the universe, and, everything in heaven and earth that is in need of uniting and redeeming.”

**It is not in the limited sense of “nearly all”, “pavnte” minus “ta”

The final preposition [eiv) reveals the ultimate goal of all that is. What has been provided in Christ is a re-turn, a re-storation, a re-newing, a re-demption, a re-concilation, a re-surrection, a re-stitution.

The prefix “re” means back again, again, anew–and all the words with this prefix speak of something that left its place and has now made its circuit and come back to the point of its beginning.

In the Christian story God descends to reascend. He comes down;… down to the very roots and sea-bed of the Nature He has created. But He goes down to come up again and bring the whole ruined world up with Him. -C.S. Lewis

 

[FineLinen]

Not even warm Major: You have no idea of the scope of ta pavnte!

You believe the vast vast segments of our Father do not end in Him. You believe in the god of limited (minus UN).

The "goal line" is not the destination, He is!

Source of ta pavnte. Guide of ta pavnte, Goal of ta pavnte.

Please welcome Tom Talbott.

Thomas Talbott- The Inescapable Love of God - 2nd Edition