Good deeds vs Sinning

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
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Do you confess every sin?
I don't believe it's possible.

Believers are to confess what they know they can confess of. Those sins we cannot confess, we ask God to forgive us for any bad we may have done that we don't know about. But this kind of confession is done with the intention of not doing that sin again.

You said:
We are not forgiven only on the condition of sinlessness.

As I told you before, not all sin leads to spiritual death.

In Matthew 5:22 we learn that Jesus teaches us about sins that do not lead to death and a sin that does lead to death.

“But I say to you that everyone who continues to be angry with his brother
or harbors malice against him shall be guilty before the court;
and whoever speaks
[contemptuously and insultingly] to his brother,
‘Raca
(You empty-headed idiot)!’ shall be guilty before the
supreme court
(Sanhedrin); and whoever says,
‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of the fiery hell
.”
(Matthew 5:22) (AMP).​

The words in blue above are “sins not unto death” because they are the kind of sins that lead to punishment in earthly courts, but the words in red above is a “sin unto death” because it involves punishment in the afterlife in fiery hell.
 
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renniks

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1 John 2:3 is your assurance card for salvation. But most today do not like 1 John 2:3 and so they throw that verse out.
So if I don't break any of the commandments I'm guaranteed salvation? I thought Jesus blood covered that not keeping commandments. But wait it's actually talking about Jesus' commands, not the ten commandments. What did Jesus command?
Well there are a bunch of them, but what sums it up?

Do to others as you would have done to you.

But in the same chapter we are told not to sin but if we do it is covered.

"My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."

We are to live as Jesus did. Do we really? How do we get there? Later in the same chapter we're given an answer:

"As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is what he promised us—eternal life."

It's a process. We aren't unsaved each time we mess up. We have eternal life.
 
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renniks

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Believers are to confess what they know they can confess of. Those sins we cannot confess, we ask God to forgive us for any bad we may have done that we don't know about. But this kind of confession is done with the intention of not doing that sin again.



As I told you before, not all sin leads to spiritual death.

In Matthew 5:22 we learn that Jesus teaches us about sins that do not lead to death and a sin that does lead to death.

“But I say to you that everyone who continues to be angry with his brother
or harbors malice against him shall be guilty before the court;
and whoever speaks
[contemptuously and insultingly] to his brother,
‘Raca
(You empty-headed idiot)!’ shall be guilty before the
supreme court
(Sanhedrin); and whoever says,
‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of the fiery hell
.”
(Matthew 5:22) (AMP).​

The words in blue above are “sins not unto death” because they are the kind of sins that lead to punishment in earthly courts, but the words in red above is a “sin unto death” because it involves punishment in the afterlife in fiery hell.
Sin is sin. The Catholics separate sins, but in reality, Christ died for all of them, not just certain ones.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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So if I don't break any of the commandments I'm guaranteed salvation?

Well, we first need to be saved by God's grace of course, and it is not about just breaking the commands, but there are commands that are proactive like loving God and loving your neighbor.

Try reading Luke 10:25-28 sometime.
It teaches that loving God (including certain details), and loving your neighbor is a part of inheriting eternal life.

You said:
I thought Jesus blood covered that not keeping commandments.

What verse leads you to this conclusion?
My Bible says,

“But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.” (1 John 1:7).

So you have to walk in the light in order for the blood of Jesus to cleanse you of all sin.

But wait it's actually talking about Jesus' commands, not the ten commandments.

Right, I am not a Sabbatarian or one of those who believe we must keep the 613 Laws of Moses. I believe we must follow the commands that come from Jesus and His followers as found in the pages of the New Testament.

You said:
What did Jesus command?
Well there are a bunch of them, but what sums it up?

Do to others as you would have done to you.

Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15).
You said yourself there are many.
But yes. Obviously the two big ones is to love God (with included details), and to love your neighbor.

You said:
But in the same chapter we are told not to sin but if we do it is covered.

No. John does not say it is covered if you sin. He says you go to your advocate (Who is Jesus Christ). This would be confessing sin to be forgiven of sin as 1 John 1:9 says. 1 John 2:1 points back to 1 John 1:9.

You said:
"My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."

Right, it says Jesus is the atoning sacrifice for the sins of the whole world, but not everyone is saved even though Jesus died for their sins provisionally so as to provide a way of escape for them. A person needs faith and the correct one in order to access the saving grace of God.

We are to live as Jesus did. Do we really?

Sounds like you are doubting 1 John 2:5-6. Is this the case?

You said:
"As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is what he promised us—eternal life."

But what are the conditions of God's promise of eternal life?
Eternal life is a person named Jesus Christ. For 1 John 5:20 says Jesus is the true God and eternal life. 1 John 5:12 says he that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son does not have life.

Jesus says we can abide in his love if we keep His commandments (John 15:10). 1 John 2:3 basically says we can have an assurance that we know Him if we keep His commandments. 1 John 2:4 says that the person who says they know the Lord and they do not keep His commandments, is a liar and the truth is not in them. Are people who are liars and do not have any truth in them saved?

You said:
It's a process. We aren't unsaved each time we mess up. We have eternal life.

So what do you do with verses like Matthew 5:28-30, Galatians 5:19-21, Revelation 21:8, 1 John 3:15, etc.?
 
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Sin is sin. The Catholics separate sins,

Catholics believe in the Trinity, but that does not invalidate the teaching of the truth of the Trinity. I am not Catholic, but I am Bible alone and I really do not like church traditions of any kind. I just believe the Bible and as I have shown by the Bible in Matthew 5:22, it teaches clearly that there are sins that lead to punishment in earthly courts, and there is a sin that leads to hell. So it's your choice to either believe the Bible or not.

You said:
but in reality, Christ died for all of them, not just certain ones.

But again, a person needs to have the proper faith in order to access the atonement. So unless you are a Universalist, we do need to do something to access God's grace like having faith. Most believe it is just having a belief alone in Jesus as the Savior or the finished work of the cross. But faith is more than just being saved by God's grace. The journey of faith continues in being faithFUL. Ever wonder where the word faithful comes from? It is mentioned in your Bible.
 
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Root of Jesse

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The rich man was looking for a covenant, a deal, an instrument by which he could obligate God to grant him eternal life. "What can I do that will obligate God to grant me eternal life?"
Nice thought.
 
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TheWhat?

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Seems there is some disdain for "formulas" floating about. Well, I hate to say it, you need one. God is God of prophecy and covenants. He fulfills His word. If He makes a covenant, it is imperative. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to cleanse us of all unrighteousness. He's faithful to His promises.
 
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Hezekiah81

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So I'm trying to understand how doing good and sinning balance out in a believers life.

I'm a simple man, so let me keep it simple.

Let's say I do a good deed this week: I know an acquaintance has medical bills to pay so I go to a GoFundMe account and contribute $25.

The same week, however, I also fall for temptation and spend 25 minutes watching inappropriate content on the internet.

Which option applies to my situation:

A. The sinning cancels out my giving, so God still holds my sin against me. So I'm in negative territory in my good versus bad account.

B. The $25 given cancels out the 25 minutes of sinning, so I'm in the positive on my good versus bad account.

C. They cancel each other out, so I don't have any good deed merit but on the other hand, I don't have the sin on my account either.

D. Other ( Please explain.)
Those born of God do not sin and those that sin are of the devil it's simple get born again.
 
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o_mlly

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Um why does every sin require punishment if they are already forgiven? Christ took them on him, but we still must pay? Not.
Purgatory is not a real thing.
I hope that, with God's grace, we can discuss the reality of purgatory when we are both there.
 
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prophecy_uk

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Root of Jesse: "What happened to the thief on the cross next to Jesus? He repented as he was dying, and Jesus told him "Today you will be with Me in Paradise.""

Look again at Luke. The man rebuked the other man on the cross, as that man had no fear of God. The thief also knew about Jesus, how He never had done any wrong. That shows a difference prior to this situation, in the two men, not a last moment repent and all is well.

Your other confusion/wrong assumption, and I speak to all Catholics in the whole world, is that the thief is saved that day.

That day, Jesus goes into the heart of the earth, three days, Jesus will remember the thief, but still everyone is judged according to their deeds, and the man on the cross did another deed, correcting the other man who spoke wrong, behaved wrong, and who never had fear of God ( having fear of God matters)..


Luke 23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Matthew 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.








RD Kirk: "The rich man was looking for a covenant, a deal, an instrument by which he could obligate God to grant him eternal life. "What can I do that will obligate God to grant me eternal life?""



Not what is said here in Mark 10 at all. But what is told is, the young man was loved of Jesus for doing all things very well, but that, that still is not enough, because no treasure was in Heaven yet. treasure in Heaven is by not having treasure on earth, so the rich man who behaved well had to go away unable to give away all...

Mark 10:20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.


Peter and the disciples ( not the many disciples who went away from Jesus) were chosen by Christ to forsake their whole life, this is one way you know if a person is chosen, or as the many only called..



Mark 10:28 Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee.
29 And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,
30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
31 But many that are first shall be last; and the last first. ( MANY ARE CALLED, BUT FEW ARE CHOSEN)

Matthew 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

John 6:60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?

John 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.





Bible Highlighter: " Being saved by God's grace will also generally include receiving Jesus as your Savior (John 1:12), and calling upon the name of the Lord (i.e. confessing with your mouth the words: “Lord Jesus” or similar equivalent - Romans 10:9) as a part of seeking forgiveness of your sins with Him by way of prayer (Romans 10:13) (Luke 15:18-21) (Luke 18:9-14)."


Funny how Bible Highlighter, has to have all highlighted, that he misses out, that is essential for understanding, too.

Calling on the name of the Lord to be saved, TO ALL THAT CALL UPON HIM IN TRUTH..



Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Psalm 145:18 The Lord is nigh unto all them that call upon him, to all that call upon him in truth.




How do men, call on the Lord in truth ?

By Jesus, the Spirit of truth coming to them. The Spirit of truth comes to them, and guides them ( before they ask or call)or it would not be fulfilled by the Lord God who is our Shepherd of the sheep, that He seeks us out and finds us, not we finding Him..


John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Isaiah 65:24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.

Ezekiel 34:11 For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.



Of course that same message is fulfilled everywhere, no man can go to Jesus, unless they are drawn first by the Father. Jesus showed, they did not choose Him ( the disciples) but Jesus chose them and ordained them, remembering the many called but few chosen, then we see in Revelations, thy are called AND chosen ( by God who enabled them to call upon Him in truth by seeking them)..



John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.


Revelation 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.






Bible Highlighter: One is born again spiritually (Note: Born again by the Spirit, and born again by water (i.e. the Scriptures - Romans 10:17, 1 Peter 1:23)). A person is foundationally or ultimately saved by God’s grace because

if they happen to sin on rare occasion in their Christian walk, they do not do a good work to absolve that sin, but they confess of their sins to Jesus in order to be forgiven of that sin"


Bible Highlighter:

"If a believer happens to on rare occasion to stumble, they do not do a good work to redeem that sin, but they go to God’s grace by confessing their sins to Jesus in order to be forgiven of that sin (See: 1 John 1:9, 1 John 2:1, Proverbs 28:13, Hebrews 4:16)."





Gods word says exactly, none occasion of stumbling, for those abiding in the LIGHT...


1 John 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.



You just have to see first also in John 11, stumbling not comes by seeing the light of the day, and the ones of the night stumble: BECAUSE THERE IS NO LIGHT IN THEM.


Children of the light and of the day, are not of the night, nor of darkness/works of darkness/sin.


Take heed, as unto a light that shines in a dark place, until the day star arise in your hearts..



John 11:9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.

John 11:10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.

1 Thessalonians 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:




Shall not stumble, even when you run you shall not stumble, the way of the wicked is in darkness, that is WHY, they do not KNOW, at what they STUMBLE..

Proverbs 3:23 Then shalt thou walk in thy way safely, and thy foot shall not stumble.

Proverbs 4:12 When thou goest, thy steps shall not be straitened; and when thou runnest, thou shalt not stumble.

Proverbs 4:19 The way of the wicked is as darkness: they know not at what they stumble.








Bible Highlighter : "As I told you before, not all sin leads to spiritual death.

In Matthew 5:22 we learn that Jesus teaches us about sins that do not lead to death and a sin that does lead to death."

"The words in blue above are “sins not unto death” because they are the kind of sins that lead to punishment in earthly courts, but the words in red above is a “sin unto death” because it involves punishment in the afterlife in fiery hell."


What earthly wisdom and understanding you show Bible Highlighter.

All we need to do is see the previous verse, the judgement ( from God) was one judgement, death for all who kill.

Now, that increased( still Gods one/ singular judgement) that being angry without reason, or demeaning someone, also naming them a fool ( demeaning again) all are causes for that judgement ( of God) nothng at all to do with earthly courts, as it never was, and did never become..


Matthew 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.


This also continues below of course, how, whatever is offending( which causes us to be cast into hell) is to be stopped and cast away so we do not do ever again..

Matthew 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.







"Bible Highlighter: No. John does not say it is covered if you sin. He says you go to your advocate (Who is Jesus Christ). This would be confessing sin to be forgiven of sin as 1 John 1:9 says. 1 John 2:1 points back to 1 John 1:9."



You are misleading people, as everybody on earth does.

Firstly, unless anyone is converted, they are not entering Heaven at all.

The converts are converted with righteousness, sinners converted from transgressing and sinning. This is then, them knowing the ways of the Lord.

To be given to see and hear ( have shame and awareness) to be converted, then to have their sins forgiven. To repent of the sins by not repenting of them again, to have the sins blotted out.

The one sinning, errs from the truth, they get converted from that erring, by having their multitude of sins covered....



Matthew 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Isaiah 1:27 Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.

Psalm 51:13 Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.

Mark 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

James 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;

James 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.



They did err, and did not enter into the rest of the Lord Jesus.

Hardening the hearts prevents the rest, by then not kowing the ways of the Lord.

We avoid being hardened through the deceitfulness of sin ( the many deceiver teachers on earth, teaches to sin on occasion, that it is forgiven) but we are not told we stumble/sin on occasion, we are testified if we hold fast ( without stumbling) to be partaker of Christ, not hardening the heart( need the soft heart replacing that deceived hard heart) to labour to enter into that rest, or we fail after the same example of unbelief..



Psalm 95:10 Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:
11 Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.

Hebrews 3:8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.

Hebrews 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Hebrews 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
 
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zoidar

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Then there is no need for confession. For confessing our sins according to 1 John 1:9 means that we are forgiven of our sins by confessing them. So are we saved if we don't confess of our sins? If so, how does 1 John 1:9 work? Can a person not be forgiven of sin and still be saved? Generally the Bible ties forgiveness of sin in with salvation.

This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.
— 1 John 1:5-10


I'm not sure, but John says that if we walk in the light the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. If we are crucified with Christ we walk in the light and have his forgiveness. Of course if I have sin on my conscience I am to repent of that sin and ask for God's forgiveness. I don't think we need to confess every sin we possibly have done to be forgiven. It becomes like I wrote to Root of Jesse, a mechanical thing, sinning, confessing over and over, and it doesn't mean much unless we are willing to change. Many sermons start with a confession to God for all sins we have done, like we have to remind God that we are sinners, He already knows that. It almost sound to me like a nervous behavior that we need to confess everything all the time or we won't be forgiven and then we will reap eternal destruction. I don't think this is what John means by walking in the light.

If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
— 1 John 1:8


I think this is referring primarly to the Gnostics. They denied to have sin, so they saw no need for forgiveness.

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.
— 1 John 1:9-10


If we like the Gnostics say we haven't sinned we won't confess our sins and won't be cleansed from all unrighteousness and be saved.
 
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prophecy_uk

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This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.
1 John 1:5-10



Why go around in circles, if you can show any verses in your bibles that say you can have some darkness, some kind of sin in you to know God, show them ?

You began no fellowship until you CAN SEE THEM, READ THEM, AND SHOW THEM, AND HERE IS THE OPPOSITE FOR YOU,..

Luke 11:34 The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness.
35 Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness.
36 If thy whole body therefore be full of light, having no part dark, the whole shall be full of light, as when the bright shining of a candle doth give thee light.

2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

1 John 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

I do not mind if you guys discuss, and refuse to talk about the words you keep quoting, it is clearly your error.
 
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prophecy_uk

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1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

3 John 1:11 Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.
 
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This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.
— 1 John 1:5-10


I'm not sure, but John says that if we walk in the light the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. If we are crucified with Christ we walk in the light and have his forgiveness. Of course if I have sin on my conscience I am to repent of that sin and ask for God's forgiveness. I don't think we need to confess every sin we possibly have done to be forgiven. It becomes like I wrote to Root of Jesse, a mechanical thing, sinning, confessing over and over, and it doesn't mean much unless we are willing to change. Many sermons start with a confession to God for all sins we have done, like we have to remind God that we are sinners, He already knows that. It almost sound to me like a nervous behavior that we need to confess everything all the time or we won't be forgiven and then we will reap eternal destruction. I don't think this is what John means by walking in the light.

Dear Zoidar:

Thank you for being kind in your reply. May God’s grace and goodness shine upon you today (even if we may not agree on everything exactly).

Anyways, I agree with you that 1 John 1:8 is refuting the false gnostic belief that basically says sin is an illusion or non-existent. Well done for recognizing that, brother. However, I don’t believe 1 John 1:9 is referring to Initial Salvation. Please hear me out. First, the apostle John is addressing already saved believers which includes himself when he uses the word “we” in 1 John 1:9. I believe John was warning the brethren of their false belief of thinking sin is non-existent, but John is talking to believers who already accepted Christ and His grace and sought forgiveness with the Lord. Second, the apostle John says, “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.” (1 John 2:19). This means the gnostics heard the same message of salvation from the apostles, and they were even sent out by them, but they did not receive it whereby they later had shown by their false belief of Gnosticism that they did not regard sin as something that needed to be confessed because they thought sin was an illusion or non-existent. Three, 1 John 2:1 says to: “sin not,” but John basically says that if we happen to do so, we have an advocate that we can go to named Jesus Christ. This ties in with Hebrews 4:16 in boldly coming to the throne of grace and finding mercy in time of need. I believe 1 John 2:1 points back to 1 John 1:9. I see 1 John 1:9 as referring to confessing known sin that we are able to confess. I believe that by also praying the Lord’s Prayer (Matthew 6:9-11) as a general outline from the heart, and not mindlessly reciting a script, it covers any unknown sin we may have in our lives. Meaning, a believer will ask the Lord to forgive them for any unknown sin in their lives in their own words.

You said:
If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
— 1 John 1:8


I think this is referring primarly to the Gnostics. They denied to have sin, so they saw no need for forgiveness.

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.
— 1 John 1:9-10


If we like the Gnostics say we haven't sinned we won't confess our sins and won't be cleansed from all unrighteousness and be saved.

I don’t believe the brethren needed to be re-schooled on Initial Salvation, but they needed to know how to deal with sin if it ever cropped up in their lives. For King David confessed of his sins and was seeking forgiveness with God and he was already a man of God who worked by the power of God by taking down Goliath. But David needed to confess of his sins in order to be forgiven of them. A plain reading of Psalms 51 makes this clear that he was looking for forgiveness and to be restored back with God. For generally forgiveness is tied to salvation in the Bible, and David was seeking forgiveness. Also, Proverbs 28:13 says he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy. This Proverb is written to the Jew who was already a believer in God and not a Gentile that needed to be saved.

I believe the Bible teaches that repentance is just another way of saying to seek forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ. Why is this important in regards to 1 John 1:9?

We see repentance is the topic of discussion in Luke 15 (Luke 15:6) (Luke 15:10); This is then followed up by the "Parable of the Prodigal Son" with the son desiring to be reconciled with his father. We learn the WAY the Prodigal Son desired to be reconciled with his father when he said,

"I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants." (Luke 15:18-19).

In other words, the Prodigal Son was seeking forgiveness. This ties into the point of repentance in Luke 15:6 and Luke 15:10. One point of the parable is that the prodigal son was restored back to his father by seeking forgiveness with him. His father said he was “dead” and he is “alive again,” and this all changed when the prodigal son had desired to seek forgiveness with his father.
 
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Of course that same message is fulfilled everywhere, no man can go to Jesus, unless they are drawn first by the Father. Jesus showed, they did not choose Him ( the disciples) but Jesus chose them and ordained them, remembering the many called but few chosen, then we see in Revelations, thy are called AND chosen ( by God who enabled them to call upon Him in truth by seeking them)..

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

I respectfully disagree. John 6:44 needs to be read in context to John 6:45.

John 6:45 says,

“It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.”​

In other words: Every man (the Jew) who has HEARD (listened to God through obeying God's commands) and has learned of the Father (loving others - Matthew 5:43-48) comes unto me (i.e. Jesus).

John 6:45 is clear in that this is not in reference to unbelieving Jews or unbelieving Gentiles. This is in reference to those Jews who had a relationship with God because they heard and learned of the Father. THESE are the ones who are drawn by the Father to come to Jesus. Not just anybody!

Every man (i.e. Every believing Jew; For the context is the Jew who here and not unbelieving Gentiles) who has HEARD and has LEARNED of the Father comes unto Jesus.

The word “heard” and the word “learned” implies a relationship with God the Father (for the Jew). So this is not a drawing that goes from unbelief to belief. This is a dedicated Jewish believer who has a relationship with God who is being drawn to Jesus. So the context is key here.

Anyways, may the Lord’s good ways shine upon you today (even if we disagree strongly on Scripture).

Note: I am not posting an exhaustive source of verses. Neither did I feel it will turn out to be profitable to address all your other points you made to me.

In any event, peace be unto from the Lord.
 
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prophecy_uk

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Bible Highlighter: "I believe that by also praying the Lord’s Prayer (Matthew 6:9-11) as a general outline from the heart, and not mindlessly reciting a script, it covers any unknown sin we may have in our lives. Meaning, a believer will ask the Lord to forgive them for any unknown sin in their lives in their own words."



Now, see more of the words that Jesus our Lord taught us to pray ( His words are Spirit and life)



Matthew 6:10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.



Matthew 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven....



Do we pray for the Kingdom to come, when the Kingdom of God was demanded by the Phariisees, to be made known when the Kingdom should come, or we do not need to pray as Pharisitical Pharisees, saying thy Kingdom come in prayer, as we know the Kingdom of God has come and is within us, as testified when Jesus died He came into His Kingdom which then came into us, as the Son of God is come ( thy Kingdoim come) and has given us understanding to know Him that is true, and to be in Him ( in His Kingdom within us) that is true, and nobody else witnesses it, as testified, the Kingdom of God comes not with observation....




Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:


Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.





Matthew 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven....



Second part of the verse, now we know it is people unaware that pray thy Kingdom come, when they should know that the So of God has come into us with His Kingdom, is now that means the Lords will is done on earth, as it was in Heaven.

Those who do the will of the Father in Heaven, enter into the Kingdom of Heaven,. those who do the will of the Father are the brother and sister of Christ, which are those who are enabled by Christ rising, to now hear with ears given, and to then do the word of God ( now Gods will is done on earth I see they do not know though)...



Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Luke 8:21 And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.




Matthew 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.....




So, they pray now against God, choosing one part of the scriptures, and ignoring the fulfillment ?



Read and see it, how do you pray to be forgiven of debts, when the commandment is taught, to now owe no man anything ( no longer requiring forgiven of debts) as now the love of God and the Spirit is given when Christ rose after the prayer of forgiveness/Kingdom come, which forgave our debts/sins, and changed man to no ,longer work ill to your neighbour, as the law is written and fulfilled in their heart, when love works no ill to your neighbour, and them praying , and doing evil against another, is them denying all that Christ has done, and they are so wicked they ignore the testimony shown to them now..



Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.






Matthew 6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil:....



Do you really want to be noticed and witnessed as so evil and empty, that you speak on as if nothing is testified? Are we delivered from evil, when we pray for this to be done, or Christ gave Himself for us, which delivered us from this evil ( world) and it is done, and we deny that also when we still do evil..



Galatians 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
 
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Bible Highlighter: "I believe that by also praying the Lord’s Prayer (Matthew 6:9-11) as a general outline from the heart, and not mindlessly reciting a script, it covers any unknown sin we may have in our lives. Meaning, a believer will ask the Lord to forgive them for any unknown sin in their lives in their own words."



Now, see more of the words that Jesus our Lord taught us to pray ( His words are Spirit and life)



Matthew 6:10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.



Matthew 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven....



Do we pray for the Kingdom to come, when the Kingdom of God was demanded by the Phariisees, to be made known when the Kingdom should come, or we do not need to pray as Pharisitical Pharisees, saying thy Kingdom come in prayer, as we know the Kingdom of God has come and is within us, as testified when Jesus died He came into His Kingdom which then came into us, as the Son of God is come ( thy Kingdoim come) and has given us understanding to know Him that is true, and to be in Him ( in His Kingdom within us) that is true, and nobody else witnesses it, as testified, the Kingdom of God comes not with observation....




Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:


Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.





Matthew 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven....



Second part of the verse, now we know it is people unaware that pray thy Kingdom come, when they should know that the So of God has come into us with His Kingdom, is now that means the Lords will is done on earth, as it was in Heaven.

Those who do the will of the Father in Heaven, enter into the Kingdom of Heaven,. those who do the will of the Father are the brother and sister of Christ, which are those who are enabled by Christ rising, to now hear with ears given, and to then do the word of God ( now Gods will is done on earth I see they do not know though)...



Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Luke 8:21 And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.




Matthew 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.....




So, they pray now against God, choosing one part of the scriptures, and ignoring the fulfillment ?



Read and see it, how do you pray to be forgiven of debts, when the commandment is taught, to now owe no man anything ( no longer requiring forgiven of debts) as now the love of God and the Spirit is given when Christ rose after the prayer of forgiveness/Kingdom come, which forgave our debts/sins, and changed man to no ,longer work ill to your neighbour, as the law is written and fulfilled in their heart, when love works no ill to your neighbour, and them praying , and doing evil against another, is them denying all that Christ has done, and they are so wicked they ignore the testimony shown to them now..



Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.






Matthew 6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil:....



Do you really want to be noticed and witnessed as so evil and empty, that you speak on as if nothing is testified? Are we delivered from evil, when we pray for this to be done, or Christ gave Himself for us, which delivered us from this evil ( world) and it is done, and we deny that also when we still do evil..



Galatians 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

I do not believe we can abide in grievous sin and still be saved. Believers need to confess and forsake sin (Proverbs 28:13). Believers need to cleanse themselves from all filthiness of the flesh perfecting holiness in the fear of God (2 Corinthians 7:1). But believers can on rare occasion make mistakes whereby they need to be restored by confessing and forsaking their sin. Peter denied the Lord three times, but he was restored. Peter was rebuked by the apostle Paul. But Peter wrote Scripture. The apostle Paul made a mistake in Acts 21 in going back to the Old Law. King David murdered and committed adultery, but he was restored by seeking forgiveness with the Lord. The prodigal son was restored by seeking forgiveness with his father (Which is parallel to seeking forgiveness with our everlasting Father - Jesus Christ). 1 John 1:9 says if we confess of our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Anyways, these are not excuses for sin. But believers can potentially stumble (See: 1 John 2:1). However, I also believe Christians eventually need to overcome grievous sin in this life as a part of the Sanctification Process after they are saved by God’s grace. When this happens is different for every believer. But I do believe that without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14). So your barking up the wrong tree. I am not advocating any kind of excuse for a person to sin by any means. Believers need to cut off grievous sin out of their lives, or they are not going to make it into God’s kingdom. But most believers do not go from zero to hero overnight. It takes time for most believers to mature and grow in the faith in understanding His Word and for them to put away any darkness out of their life.
 
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prophecy_uk

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"But believers can on rare occasion make mistakes whereby they need to be restored by confessing and forsaking their sin."

yes, you used the word stumble occasionally, yet it is against Gods word, pity you used the wrong word isnt it.



"Peter denied the Lord three times, but he was restored. "


Peter was not given the Holy Spirit yet till the Lord was glorified..

John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)



Then when the Spirit is given, this applies:

Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

2 Timothy 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:


After Christ rose, Christ allowed Peter to confess Him three times, because Christ had made peter deny Him by scattering the sheep..


John 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.




"Peter was rebuked by the apostle Paul. But Peter wrote Scripture. "


Peter was part of the revelation by the Lord of one new man in Christ, before it was illegal for a Jew to be with a Gentile:

Acts 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Acts 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;




"The apostle Paul made a mistake in Acts 21 in going back to the Old Law"


Maybe the mistake is yours Bible Highlighter, to ignore that God had to reveal to the Jews of this new way to be with the Gentiles, and the same happened here again, the Jews had offence and required Paul to help them out of that offence, Paul helped them, which is no mistake, showing no offence to the Jews as we are taught, and that for the Gentiles, they did not have to do any such things..

Acts 21:24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.
25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

1 Corinthians 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
 
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"But believers can on rare occasion make mistakes whereby they need to be restored by confessing and forsaking their sin."

yes, you used the word stumble occasionally, yet it is against Gods word, pity you used the wrong word isnt it.



"Peter denied the Lord three times, but he was restored. "


Peter was not given the Holy Spirit yet till the Lord was glorified..

John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

This is not new for me. I was not born again yesterday. I am not denying that things have changed afterwards with the giving of the Spirit. Obviously Peter could not have openly denied the Lord while having the Spirit. For Hebrews 6:4-6 is a warning to the Messianic brethren to not go back to the Jewish religion so as to avoid persecution for Jesus Christ. My point was general in that believers (even ones who were in dwelled by the Spirit) can make mistakes.

This is evident if you were to read and believe 1 John 2:1.

You said:
Peter was part of the revelation by the Lord of one new man in Christ, before it was illegal for a Jew to be with a Gentile:

Acts 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Acts 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

So the apostle Paul was in error in rebuking Peter?
So then Paul made a mistake if that is the case.

You said:
Maybe the mistake is yours Bible Highlighter, to ignore that God had to reveal to the Jews of this new way to be with the Gentiles, and the same happened here again, the Jews had offence and required Paul to help them out of that offence, Paul helped them, which is no mistake, showing no offence to the Jews as we are taught, and that for the Gentiles, they did not have to do any such things.

Paul was going to go through with an animal sacrifice as a part of an OT ritual rite. When Jesus died upon the cross: The temple veil was torn from top to bottom letting us know that the laws on animal sacrifices and the priesthood had ended. So Paul participating in an animal sacrifice is a denial of the true sacrifice that Christ made for us. So Paul made a mistake. Paul was even told by the Spirit not to go to Jerusalem, but he went anyways. Paul was not condemned for disobeying the Spirit because he went out of love to see his fellow Jewish Christian brethren, and to see the Jews saved.

Paul implies his own mistake when he says: “Short time or long—I pray to God that not only you but all who are listening to me today may become what I am, except for these chains.” (Acts of the Apostles 26:29) (NIV).

So Paul says he wants others to become what he has become, except for the chains he placed upon himself by his wrong decision in disobeying the Spirit in going to Jerusalem (Which led to his going back to the Old Law wrongfully).

You said:
Acts 21:24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.
25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

They were in error. The Jews were also not under the Old Law anymore because Christ fulfilled it upon the cross.

You said:
1 Corinthians 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

This is in context to food and drink and not to do these things in a way that would offend anyone.
 
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