Going to holistic/Naturopath doctor....is it wrong?

[morningstar2651]

Hey, look! A book on the methods of faith healers.

Amazon.com: Faith Healers (9780879755355): James Randi, Carl Sagan: Books

 

[Gadarene]

Wrong--they have been proven effective. You just do not want to believe it.
My father went to the ER because he was bright yellow. He's an onery cus and said he just wanted a pill for this and to go home. They refused to treat him unless he was admitted as they felt he would die if he went home. A normal person would have. He went to the supermarket and bought a bunch of papayas and ate papaya till he couldn't eat any more---the next day he was fine and was for many years after. He had no idea why he wanted to eat so much papaya. One regular dr explained it this way--the papaya has a powerful enzyme which probably dissolved a blockage.

Wait, what does this have to do with acupuncture?

I'm guessing this is a reference to papain. So why is concentrating the active ingredient down into a capsule (in other words, pharmacology) CHEMICALS AND BAD, but eating an excessive amount of food is NATURAL AND GOOD?

Sometimes the amount of food one would need to eat in order for a medical benefit to occur is either impractical or outright dangerous in other ways. Curcumin in turmeric is anti-carcinogenic, but you'd kill yourself eating enough curry - or even simply the raw turmeric - to get the same effect as a pharmacological dose.

I've had bladder infections, and some people I know, and taking massive dosses of beta caroteen and vit c have cleared them up just as fast, if not faster than antibiotics. It has to be both--it works, period. Don't care if you think it doesn't--I didn't think it would either, but has--3 times for me--and for about 5 other people who tried it.

5 people is still not an adequate sample size to make the conclusion you have. Maybe there is a study with a larger sample size backing it up, so you may be correct but for the wrong reason.

I've had regular dr's who ended up shutting down my thyroid, nearly killed me with too much muscle relaxant and not enough anesthia for my eye surgery (I went into resp arrest), were unable to fix my fungal ear infection (they tried for 5 mths)--one dr refused to believe me when I said I was pregnant, I was puking up my toes 2-3 weeks after my finacee said "oops"--I knew I was pregnant. Dr gave me meds not meant for preg. women, also upper and lower Gi's, I was hospitalized for severe dehydration--by the time I got to a dr that took me seriously I was almost 3 mths along. A catholic dr working at a catholic hospital gave me the address of an abortion clinic outside the state were it was legal as he felt that if I was able to carry the child to term (which he highly doubted), the list of meds I'd had would have given me one pretty horrible looking monster. Another ear dr did not believe I had an ear infection (different from the fungal infection)--he felt I just had wax and he proceeded to flush my ear. When I screamed in pain he scowled and said flushing the ears does not cause pain---I ran out and went to my nephrologist who looked at my ears and gave me the right antibiotic, it was not a wax build up, the infection is what caused the pain when that idiot flushed it. One dr refused to believe that I had a broken ankle, it was just a sprain. It hurt so bad that it must be arthritic so I was sent to an orthopedic surgeon who x-rayed it and found it was broken--if It had gone untreated any longer, it would not have joined.---I've had my share of arrogant, know it all dr's who knew nothing. I've also had the priviledge of knowing some excellent ones.
Along with great chiropracters, holistic and alternative med ones.

Again, one doctor's incompetence has little bearing on scientific fact. If you want to convince someone that a particular treatment works as claimed, you need references to something like a double blind clinical trial, not anecdotes.

 

[ebia]

Ban dihydrogen monoxide!

Or at least dilute it with ethanol.

 

[meredithraven]

Faith healing is absolutely not a scam. Though some people use it as one, it is completely possible. Christ did it, and so can others who have received the gift from the Spirit. I have seen it happen first hand.

 

[IanCG]

Faith healing is absolutely not a scam. Though some people use it as one, it is completely possible. Christ did it, and so can others who have received the gift from the Spirit. I have seen it happen first hand.

It absolutely is a scam.

James Randi Debunks Peter Popoff Faith Healer - YouTube

If it worked, it would revolutionize medicine, and you'd see a huge decline of military personnel with permanent injuries. All the Peter Popoffs and Cyndy Jacobs out there are lying charlatans chasing the almighty dollar.

 

[Desk trauma]

Faith healing is absolutely not a scam. Though some people use it as one, it is completely possible. Christ did it, and so can others who have received the gift from the Spirit. I have seen it happen first hand.

I am sure some involved in faith healing honestly believe it, that does not change that it has failed every time it was tested.

 

[meredithraven]

Because it was not made to prove a point, it was made to cure.

"The devil led him to Jerusalem and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down from here. For it is written:

“He will command his angels concerning you
to guard you carefully;
they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.”

12 Jesus answered, “It is said: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.”

 

[Desk trauma]

Because it was not made to prove a point, it was made to cure.

If it did actually cure that is a testable claim, it has failed the test every time.

 

[ebia]

It absolutely is a scam.

James Randi Debunks Peter Popoff Faith Healer - YouTube

If it worked, it would revolutionize medicine, and you'd see a huge decline of military personnel with permanent injuries. All the Peter Popoffs and Cyndy Jacobs out there are lying charlatans chasing the almighty dollar.

Well, it's not faith healing if you test it, is it?

 

[meredithraven]

Well, it's not faith healing if you test it, is it?

 

[ebia]

I suspect you didn't detect the irony

 

[meredithraven]

I suspect you didn't detect the irony

I did not realize you were being facetious, but you actually made quite a true point.

 

[ebia]

I did not realize you were being facetious, but you actually made quite a true point.

Not facetious, ironic.

 

[morningstar2651]

Faith healing is a scam. Faith healers are charlatans. The healing is fake, but they do cause real harm and request real money.

Some Thoughts about Faith Healing
Giving their lives to the faith | Mark Haville

During the early 1970s, Minnesota surgeon William Nolen, M.D., attended a service conducted by Katherine Kuhlman, the leading evangelical healer of that period. After noting the names of 25 people who had been "miraculously healed," he was able to perform follow-up interviews and examinations. Among other things, he discovered that one woman who had been announced as cured of "lung cancer" actually had Hodgkin's disease—which was unaffected by the experience. Another woman with cancer of the spine had discarded her brace and followed Ms. Kuhlman's enthusiastic command to run across the stage. The following day her backbone collapsed, and four months later she died. Overall, not one person with organic disease had been helped. Dr. Nolen reported his findings, which included observations of several other healers, in Healing: A Doctor in Search of a Miracle.

 

[IanCG]

Well, it's not faith healing if you test it, is it?

Yeah, all those people with permanent injuries deserve it for not believing hard enough.

 

[ebia]

Yeah, all those people with permanent injuries deserve it for not believing hard enough.

Faith is not the same thing as certainty.

 

[meredithraven]

Do you people not understand what "laying of the hands" means? It does not mean dangerous practices that are risky and you are told that if you have faith it will be okay.
It literally means to lay your hands on someone and pray for their healing.
I have participated in it as both the ill and the healer, and both of these times, there were healing.

 

[Desk trauma]

Do you people not understand what "laying of the hands" means? It does not mean dangerous practices that are risky and you are told that if you have faith it will be okay.

The ritual is not what is risky, the not seeking real medical attention is what is risky.

 

[meredithraven]

The ritual is not what is risky, the not seeking real medical attention is what is risky.

And if the ritual does not work, most sane people would consult a doctor.

 

[ebia]

And if the ritual does not work, most sane people would consult a doctor.

Well, there are some people out there convincing people that faith healing or seeking medical attention is an either/or.

And some convincing people they are healed when they are not.


Now a pastor who says "right, go see a doctor AND come to the healing service on wed (and the doctor may be the means through which God heals)" is quite another matter.