God's TEN Commandments: Keep them? or break them?

[LittleLambofJesus]

Like your version oft eh verses even thought hey are hard to read/understand.

bugkiller

I generally try to follow the Hebrew and Greek word for word as much as is possible.
Young's Literal Translation is a very accurate Bible version but has to be read slowly to absorb the beauty of his very literal translation.
Which remings me of what one member said of my translations ehehe......

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/nicene-creed-whats-yer-beef.7305289/page-7#post-49316928

I've always enjoyed LLOJ's Bible quotes. Jokingly (and not at all insultingly) I refer to it as "the Yoda Revised Version" because the sense of it one can undersand, but backwards iusually it reads!

.

 

[Travis93]

Then there can be no new covenant. Either Jeremiah is a false prophet or God is a liar. Take your pick.

Heads I win, tails you lose.

bugkiller

Let's look at the terms of the new covenant.
Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Right away here's a problem for the people saying "I'm a gentile, that doesn't apply to me". The promise was to Israel and Judah only, no one else.
Jeremiah 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
The promise is to put the law in people's hearts so they follow it better, not to discard it, see Ezekiel 36:27 and Ezekiel 11:20 for the same promise.
Jeremiah 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Has this happened yet, do all people know God today? We don't have to teach anyone this? Why do missionaries exist then?
Jeremiah 31:35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
Jeremiah 31:36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
Jeremiah 31:37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.
Here's a problem for the replacement theology types that say God is done with Israel, here God promises as long as nature itself is functioning he will not cast them off or that they will cease to be a nation.
Jeremiah 31:38 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that the city shall be built to the Lord from the tower of Hananeel unto the gate of the corner.
Jeremiah 31:39 And the measuring line shall yet go forth over against it upon the hill Gareb, and shall compass about to Goath.
Jeremiah 31:40 And the whole valley of the dead bodies, and of the ashes, and all the fields unto the brook of Kidron, unto the corner of the horse gate toward the east, shall be holy unto the Lord; it shall not be plucked up, nor thrown down any more for ever.
And of course here we see a future prophesy of God bringing Israel back to their land, and we know this wasn't fulfilled by the return from Babylon since they did get plucked up in 70 AD. It is still coming, it begun in 1948 and will be complete when Jesus comes back to establish his kingdom.

Again, has this happened yet? Do all people know God, and do Israel and Judah have the law written on their heart?

 

[disciple1]

History, prophesy, calls to repentance, and so on. No new laws can be made or existing ones deleted (Deuteronomy 4:2, Deuteronomy 12:32), but there's nothing against God speaking through prophets so people have an ongoing connection to God. That's why God gave instructions on how to identify real prophets (Deuteronomy 13:1-5) and commanded that we hearken unto them (Deuteronomy 18:15-19). Without the rest of the Bible we'd have no idea what the future will be like, or have such a wealth of examples of people's failures to learn from. Most importantly, we wouldn't know who the Messiah is, if not for the gospel accounts telling us of Jesus.

This is the only way to repentance.
Matthew chapter 21
32 For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.
Luke chapter 3


7 John said to the crowds coming out to be baptized by him, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 9 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.”

10 “What should we do then?” the crowd asked.

11 John answered, “Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same.”

12 Even tax collectors came to be baptized. “Teacher,” they asked, “what should we do?”

13 “Don’t collect any more than you are required to,” he told them.

14 Then some soldiers asked him, “And what should we do?”

He replied, “Don’t extort money and don’t accuse people falsely—be content with your pay.”

History, prophesy, calls to repentance

 

[Bob S]

They aren't ashamed of all the easy money they gathered.

bugkiller

Yep, I wonder if T believes he has to tithe? So, if he gets 10 or more tomatoes would he be obligated to return at least one to some Levite somewhere? Yep, just wondering.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Bob S said: ↑
Travis, you are hanging your hat on the Old Testament for your salvation. No one here can possibly take you seriously. Salvation has nothing to do with observing defunct laws given to a now defunct nation.

...........I love you with brotherly love and will continue praying for you and all those who have been led astray from the simple Gospel of Jesus.

All have to come to the Living Eternal Light,
that is of our Lord and Savior, Jesus the Christ.

Isaiah 60:
2 For behold! the darkness is covering land and gross-darkness peoples;
and over thee, Yahweh is being radiant, and His glory over ye is appearing.

Matthew 4:
16 the people living in darkness have seen a great light;
on those living in the land of the shadow of death, a light has dawned.”

Luke 2:32
A light into an un-covering-veiling/apo-kaluyin <602> of Nations, and glory of Thy people, Israel."

2 Corin 3:14
But was hardened the minds of them.
For until the today day, the same covering/veil/kalumma <2571> upon the reading of the Old Covenant is remaining, no being up-covered/un-veiled
That In Christ it is being-taken-away

Revelation 1:1
An un-covering-veiling/apo-kaluyiV <602 of Jesus Christ, which gives to Him, Yahweh, to show to the bond-servants of Him, what is binding to be becoming in swiftness.
And He signifies having commissioned thru the messenger of Him, to the bond-servant of Him, John

602. ap-kalupsis from 601; disclosure:--appearing, coming, lighten, manifestation, be revealed, revelation.
601. apo-kalupto from 575 and 2572; to take off the cover, i.e. disclose:--reveal.
575. apo a primary particle; "off," i.e. away (from something near), in various senses (of place, time, or relation; literal or figurative):-
2572. kalupto akin to 2813 and 2928; to cover up (literally or figuratively):--cover, hide.

...............................

.

 

[bugkiller]

Let's look at the terms of the new covenant.
Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Right away here's a problem for the people saying "I'm a gentile, that doesn't apply to me". The promise was to Israel and Judah only, no one else.
Jeremiah 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
The promise is to put the law in people's hearts so they follow it better, not to discard it, see Ezekiel 36:27 and Ezekiel 11:20 for the same promise.
Jeremiah 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Has this happened yet, do all people know God today? We don't have to teach anyone this? Why do missionaries exist then?
Jeremiah 31:35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
Jeremiah 31:36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
Jeremiah 31:37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.
Here's a problem for the replacement theology types that say God is done with Israel, here God promises as long as nature itself is functioning he will not cast them off or that they will cease to be a nation.
Jeremiah 31:38 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that the city shall be built to the Lord from the tower of Hananeel unto the gate of the corner.
Jeremiah 31:39 And the measuring line shall yet go forth over against it upon the hill Gareb, and shall compass about to Goath.
Jeremiah 31:40 And the whole valley of the dead bodies, and of the ashes, and all the fields unto the brook of Kidron, unto the corner of the horse gate toward the east, shall be holy unto the Lord; it shall not be plucked up, nor thrown down any more for ever.
And of course here we see a future prophesy of God bringing Israel back to their land, and we know this wasn't fulfilled by the return from Babylon since they did get plucked up in 70 AD. It is still coming, it begun in 1948 and will be complete when Jesus comes back to establish his kingdom.

Again, has this happened yet? Do all people know God, and do Israel and Judah have the law written on their heart?

Have you read Acts oft he Apostles?

bigkiller

 

[Travis93]

Yep, I wonder if T believes he has to tithe? So, if he gets 10 or more tomatoes would he be obligated to return at least one to some Levite somewhere? Yep, just wondering.

No, tithing can't be done today, it only applies while the tabernacle/temple is standing.
Deuteronomy 12:5 But unto the place which the Lord your God shall choose out of all your tribes to put his name there, even unto his habitation shall ye seek, and thither thou shalt come:
Deuteronomy 12:6 And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks:

I do believe in giving to the poor though.
Deuteronomy 15:11 For the poor shall never cease out of the land: therefore I command thee, saying, Thou shalt open thine hand wide unto thy brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy, in thy land.
Matthew 5:42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

 

[disciple1]

No, tithing can't be done today, it only applies while the tabernacle/temple is standing.
Deuteronomy 12:5 But unto the place which the Lord your God shall choose out of all your tribes to put his name there, even unto his habitation shall ye seek, and thither thou shalt come:
Deuteronomy 12:6 And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks:

I do believe in giving to the poor though.
Deuteronomy 15:11 For the poor shall never cease out of the land: therefore I command thee, saying, Thou shalt open thine hand wide unto thy brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy, in thy land.
Matthew 5:42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

I do believe in giving to the poor though.

That's something anyway unless they have to accept your twisted beliefs to get something from you, keep studying maybe you'll find the truth.
Matthew chapter 25 verses 31-46
When the Son of Man comes" in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. he will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the King will say to those on his right, Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me. then the righteous will answer him, Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and got visit you? The King will reply, I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me. Then he will say to those on his left, Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.They also will answer, Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you? He will reply, I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me. Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.

 

[tatteredsoul]

The "Baptist Confession of Faith"
The "Westminster Confession of Faith"
The Catholic Catechism
D.L. Moody
R.C Sproul
Andy Stanley

All of them argue for the continued application of ALL TEN commandments to the saints today - starting in Eden and continued to this very day.

So while some Christian groups oppose them - there are quite a number in support of the TEN commandments - because under the New Covenant God writes the Law of God on the heart and mind according to Jer 31:31-33 and also Hebrews 8.

No wonder then Paul can say when contrasting the ceremonial law with the moral law of God "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

And as both John and Paul state keeping the Law of God is not something the lost will do - or CAN do. It is only for saved saints.


1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.


Rom 8
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Paul makes the point that the lost would be at war with the Law of God - but the saints under the New Covenant condition of the Law written on the heart - would not.

What are your thoughts?

in Christ,

Bob

Keep them despite their temporary impossibility. Even though the flesh is weak, the SPIRIT is willing.

Christ UPGRADED us from conscious, carnal meat sacks to conscious spiritual beings that happen to live in meat sacks.

Do we really need God to write what out what to do when He has already said the New Covenant writes His law on our hearts? Seriously... we should know what happens when God has to SPELL IT OUT for us - it is usually accompanied by some seriously gnarly trials (exodus, for example.)

God writing the law on our hearts came with a severe trial: the sacrifice of Christ. Why are we squandering His gift by doing the same things the hard headed patriarchs did?

Follow the law even if you cannot fully follow it all: do it because you love your Father God. That is what respectful children do for free for their parents - out of obedience and love.

If you fall short (sin,) then repent.

This is the GRACE we have - that NOW we know that falling short of the law will not damn us to God thanks to Christ. If we repent, we are forgiven. This is a big deal considering universal law says we have to be destroyed for telling our children Santa is real (a lie, no matter how "white.")

Why not crucify this flesh and let the spirit move you to be Holy? You can't be Holy without following God's commands.

No offense at all @BobRyan, but this thread shouldn't even exist for Christians: reread it for the hilariously disrespectful insinuation (the latter) punchline...

 

[disciple1]

Keep them despite their temporary impossibility. Even though the flesh is weak, the SPIRIT is willing.

Christ UPGRADED us from conscious, carnal meat sacks to conscious spiritual beings that happen to live in meat sacks.

Do we really need God to write what out what to do when He has already said the New Covenant writes His law on our hearts? Seriously... we should know what happens when God has to SPELL IT OUT for us - it is usually accompanied by some seriously gnarly trials (exodus, for example.)

God writing the law on our hearts came with a severe trial: the sacrifice of Christ. Why are we squandering His gift by doing the same things the hard headed patriarchs did?

Follow the law even if you cannot fully follow it all: do it because you love your Father God. That is what respectful children do for free for their parents - out of obedience and love.

If you fall short (sin,) then repent.

This is the GRACE we have - that NOW we know that falling short of the law will not damn us to God thanks to Christ. If we repent, we are forgiven. This is a big deal considering universal law says we have to be destroyed for telling our children Santa is real (a lie, no matter how "white.")

Why not crucify this flesh and let the spirit move you to be Holy? You can't be Holy without following God's commands.

No offense at all @BobRyan, but this thread shouldn't even exist for Christians: reread it for the hilariously disrespectful insinuation (the latter) punchline...

No one obeys the law, it's purpose was to lead us to Christ.
1 Peter chapter 4 verse 8
Above all love each other deeply, because love covers a multitude of sins.

 

[tatteredsoul]

No one obeys the law, it's purpose was to lead us to Christ.
1 Peter chapter 4 verse 8
Above all love each other deeply, because love covers a multitude of sins.

Before there was the Law, Adam sinned.

He obeyed the law until he didnt, and was punished for it. It would be unlawful to be punished for breaking a Law that did not exist, and or was not meant to be followed.

ONE of the purposes is to point us to Christ, but that is because it is filled with prophecy of Christ. The very decree of punishment from God for Adam's sin is a prophecy of Christ. Genesis 3:15.

That doesn't mean Adam was supposed to break the law, or that he couldn't follow it. And, anything that points to Christ demands righteousness anyway.

I don't understand where this came from where Christ nullified law, and we don't have to obey God anymore. It is like the opposite spectrum of the pharisees.

 

[disciple1]

Before there was the Law, Adam sinned.

He obeyed the law until he didnt, and was punished for it. It would be unlawful to be punished for breaking a Law that did not exist, and or was not meant to be followed.

ONE of the purposes is to point us to Christ, but that is because it is filled with prophecy of Christ. The very decree of punishment from God for Adam's sin is a prophecy of Christ. Genesis 3:15.

That doesn't mean Adam was supposed to break the law, or that he couldn't follow it. And, anything that points to Christ demands righteousness anyway.

I don't understand where this came from where Christ nullified law, and we don't have to obey God anymore. It is like the opposite spectrum of the pharisees.

You don't obey the law.
1 John chapter 1 verse 8
If anyone claims to be without sin they deceive themselves and the truth is not in them.
James chapter 2 verse 10
If anyone keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
Why not accept Christ, rather than be disobedient to him.

 

[tatteredsoul]

You don't obey the law.
1 John chapter 1 verse 8
If anyone claims to be without sin they deceive themselves and the truth is not in them.
James chapter 2 verse 10
If anyone keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
Why not accept Christ, rather than be disobedient to him.

Obeying the law, and falling short are two different things. Two very different things.

 

[BobRyan]

This is the most you can do.
Galatians chapter 5 verse 14
The entire law is summed up in a single command love your neighbor as yourself.
John chapter 15
13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.

Some would argue that people in the bible take Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself"
and Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart" as Laws to be used to delete God's spoken Word in Ex 20 - the TEN Commandments.

Law spoken by God and written in stone - where we are then told in Deut 5 "And He added no more" -- .

Well that sort of guesswork will not hold up to the "Sola Scriptura" test -- and we all know it.

Most impressively - so also do many pro-sunday scholars know it.

They know that the Ten Commandments were not deleted by Lev 19:18 or Deut 6:5 in either the OT or the NT.

Nor is there a NT text saying 'these two laws delete the OT, delete scripture, delete the commandments of God.."

Eph 6:2 the text many might prefer to religiously avoid says --> "Honor your father and Mother - which is the FIRST commandment with a promise"

Question for the group: -- FIRST commandment WHERE??

first in Lev 19:18???? is that where the 5th commandment is the "First commandment with a promise"?? No!!

how about in Deut 6:5?? is that where the 5th commandment is the "First commandment with a promise"?? No!!

How about John 13?? is that where the 5th commandment is the "First commandment with a promise"?? No!!

We can all see this. So no debate at all so far.

===============================================

So then here is the answer to our OP question -- what are included in "God's Commandments" in the following examples??

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping God's Commandments" --

God's commandments where the 5th Commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise". Eph 6:2

"The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

God's commandments where the 5th Commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise". Eph 6:2

1 John 5:2-4
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

God's commandments where the 5th Commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise". Eph 6:2

The answer is easy -- when one does not dismiss Bible details.

Rom 3:31 "31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law."

And of course - Bible details matter.

Galatians chapter 5 verse 14
The entire law is summed up in a single command love your neighbor as yourself.
John chapter 15
13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.

And does that include the Law to not take God's name in vain?

And to honor one's father and mother - the law where the 5th commandment is "the FIRST commandment with a promise".?? Eph 6:2.

Question - what law still binding on mankind today - includes the 5th commandment as the "FIRST commandment with a promise"??

Question for the group: -- FIRST commandment WHERE??

first in Lev 19:18???? is that where the 5th commandment is the "First commandment with a promise"?? No!!

how about in Deut 6:5?? is that where the 5th commandment is the "First commandment with a promise"?? No!!

How about John 13?? is that where the 5th commandment is the "First commandment with a promise"?? No!!

We can all see this. So no debate at all so far.

Obeying the law, and falling short are two different things. Two very different things.

You make a good point - but in Romans 8:4-9 Paul tells us that there is one group that "does not submit to the Law of God - neither indeed CAN they". Paul says it is the lost that are stuck in this condition until they choose to come to Christ and experience the NEW Covenant where the LAW of God is "written on the heart and mind".

No one obeys the law, .

Paul said there would be those who hold to that position.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

You don't obey the law.
1 John chapter 1 verse 8
If anyone claims to be without sin they deceive themselves and the truth is not in them.
James chapter 2 verse 10
If anyone keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
Why not accept Christ, rather than be disobedient to him.

It's no use one claims the Law no longer exists because of this; he just the firmer confirms both the Law and its validity.

 

[disciple1]

Obeying the law, and falling short are two different things. Two very different things.

Then let me reword it, everyone falls short and no one obeys it.

 

[tatteredsoul]

Then let me reword it, everyone falls short and no one obeys it.

Your last part is still wrong. Enoch obeyed God so much that he was deemed worthy of getting stewardess by angels, and shown plans of God.

But forget the patriarchs, on general purpose there are many people who obey God. You can't say no one obeys Him.

Perhaps you can say no one is 100% capable of perfect obedience to His Law. Still, that doesn't mean we shouldn't FOLLOW HIS LAW because we can't do it 100% of the time.

Should we dismantle the government and ignore the laws on the books because good people can't 100% follow the laws without breaking one? Should a person stop following the laws of the land because s/he can't possibly follow all of them perfectly?

God is the Arbiter of the Government of the Universe. His Law is Rule. We are the citizens if we choose to be. But, to be a citizen, you have to be law abiding. Grace allows for shortcomings WITH faith and repentance so that people don't throw their hands up and lose drive of obedience.

Christ Himself would have to tell me God doesn't want me to follow His laws because He died for my sins, so there is no need to "be under the law." In fact, Christ Himself would have to tell me that God''s law is null in any way.

But, Christ said the contrary; nothing has been done away until ALL is fulfilled.

We don't have our perfected, holy new bodies yet, so all ISN'T fulfilled yet.

Only God and Christ have the authority to amend or change their laws.

 

[disciple1]

Your last part is still wrong. Enoch obeyed God so much that he was deemed worthy of getting stewardess by angels, and shown plans of God.

But forget the patriarchs, on general purpose there are many people who obey God. You can't say no one obeys Him.

Perhaps you can say no one is 100% capable of perfect obedience to His Law. Still, that doesn't mean we shouldn't FOLLOW HIS LAW because we can't do it 100% of the time.

Should we dismantle the government and ignore the laws on the books because good people can't 100% follow the laws without breaking one? Should a person stop following the laws of the land because s/he can't possibly follow all of them perfectly?

God is the Arbiter of the Government of the Universe. His Law is Rule. We are the citizens if we choose to be. But, to be a citizen, you have to be law abiding. Grace allows for shortcomings WITH faith and repentance so that people don't throw their hands up and lose drive of obedience.

Christ Himself would have to tell me God doesn't want me to follow His laws because He died for my sins, so there is no need to "be under the law." In fact, Christ Himself would have to tell me that God''s law is null in any way.

But, Christ said the contrary; nothing has been done away until ALL is fulfilled.

We don't have our perfected, holy new bodies yet, so all ISN'T fulfilled yet.

Only God and Christ have the authority to amend or change their laws.

The purpose of the law was to lead us to Christ.
Ephesians chapter 2 verses 14-19
For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two. thus making peace and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. Consequently , you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household.

 

[tatteredsoul]

The purpose of the law was to lead us to Christ.
Ephesians chapter 2 verses 14-19
For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two. thus making peace and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. Consequently , you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household.

Did Christ ever say that any part of God's law was not to be followed anymore?

For example, where does Christ say, "And when I complete my work and die, then resurrect, you lot can throw out the OT, and just focus on love - forget about God's Law"?

Where does Christ insinuate God''s Law is null in any way?

I don't want to hear disciple words; I want it from the horse''s literal mouth - from the Word of God Himself.

The Most High God - the Father - will also suffice.

 

[disciple1]

Did Christ ever say that any part of God's law was not to be followed anymore?

For example, where does Christ say, "And when I complete my work and die, then resurrect, you lot can throw out the OT, and just focus on love - forget about God's Law"?

Where does Christ insinuate God''s Law is null in any way?

I don't want to hear disciple words; I want it from the horse''s literal mouth - from the Word of God Himself.

The Most High God - the Father - will also suffice.

Romans chapter 10 verse 4
Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
The law never made anything perfect.
Hebrews chapter 7

11. If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the law was given to the people), why was there still need for another priest to come--one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?

12. For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law.


18. The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless

19. (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.