God's TEN Commandments: Keep them? or break them?

[disciple1]

Why don't you stop denying Christ and admit you sin, maybe even join a Christian church.
1 John chapter 1 verse 8
If anyone claims to be without sin they deceive themselves and the truth is not in them.
James chapter 2 verse 10
If anyone keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

The law is finished.
John chapter 19
28 Later, knowing that everything had now been finished, and so that Scripture would be fulfilled, Jesus said, “I am thirsty

 

[bugkiller]

Why don't you stop denying Christ and admit you sin, maybe even join a Christian church.
1 John chapter 1 verse 8
If anyone claims to be without sin they deceive themselves and the truth is not in them.
James chapter 2 verse 10
If anyone keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

He would lose his job.

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

But no one obeys the law.
.

Romans 8 says that is the view of the lost.

3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

We all understand the view of the lost - we all know why they would view it that way.

Why don't you stop denying Christ and admit you sin, maybe even join a Christian church.
1 John chapter 1 verse 8
If anyone claims to be without sin they deceive themselves and the truth is not in them.
James chapter 2 verse 10
If anyone keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

Your response to a post of Romans 8 is "Why don't you stop denying Christ "??

Seriously??

1 John 2:3-6
3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

1 John 5:2-3
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

1 John 3:4 "Sin IS Transgression of the LAW"

Romans 3:19-20
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Matt 19
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said,
“‘You shall not murder,’
‘You shall not commit adultery,’
‘You shall not steal,’
‘You shall not bear false witness,’
19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’
and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

.

 

[disciple1]

Romans 8 says that is the view of the lost.

3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

We all understand the view of the lost - we all know why they would view it that way.



Your response to a post of Romans 8 is "Why don't you stop denying Christ "??

Seriously??

1 John 2:3-6
3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

1 John 5:2-3
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

1 John 3:4 "Sin IS Transgression of the LAW"

Romans 3:19-20
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Matt 19
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said,
“‘You shall not murder,’
‘You shall not commit adultery,’
‘You shall not steal,’
‘You shall not bear false witness,’
19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’
and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

.

No one has ever obeyed the law except Christ.
Mark chapter 12
38 As he taught, Jesus said, “Watch out for the teachers of the law. They like to walk around in flowing robes and be greeted with respect in the marketplaces, 39 and have the most important seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at banquets. 40 They devour widows’ houses and for a show make lengthy prayers. These men will be punished most severely.”

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

No one has ever obeyed the law except Christ.
Mark chapter 12
38 As he taught, Jesus said, “Watch out for the teachers of the law. They like to walk around in flowing robes and be greeted with respect in the marketplaces, 39 and have the most important seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at banquets. 40 They devour widows’ houses and for a show make lengthy prayers. These men will be punished most severely.”

Good verses.
Matt 23 is also similar, concerning the Scribes and Pharisees:

NASB Matthew 23:
13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in. http://biblehub.com/matthew/23-14.htm
14 [“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense you make long prayers; therefore you will receive greater condemnation.]
33 ‘Serpents! brood of vipers! how may ye escape from the judgment of the gehenna?
37 Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that art killing the prophets, and stoning those sent unto thee, how often did I will to gather thy children together, as a hen doth gather her own chickens under the wings, and ye did not will. 38Lo, left desolate to you is your house;

http://www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm

Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of the tormenting of Them is ascending into Ages to-Ages.
Reve 19:3
And a second-time they have declared "allelouia and the smoke of Her is ascending into the Ages of the Ages".



.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

So while some Christian groups oppose them

Personally I don't know of ANY Christian Groups the SUPPORT Murder, Burglary, Adultry, Lying, Worshipping Other Gods, Disrespecting one's parents, or being Covetous.

If you do - it'd be interesting to know who they are.

 

[BobRyan]

Those on this board placing themselves at war against the Ten Commandments - may not realize how short-lived such a "Solution" turns out to be for the objective Bible student.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Those on this board placing themselves at war against the Ten Commandments - may not realize how short-lived such a "Solution" turns out to be for the objective Bible student.

And what of those, such as yourself, who place themselves at war with all of God's Law, not just ten of those commandments?

 

[BobRyan]

And what of those, such as yourself, who place themselves at war with all of God's Law, not just ten of those commandments?

That is a fiction that has never been supported in an actual quote so you simply "quote you"..

Try quoting me if you are trying to make a claim about what my position is.

 

[amadeois]

Is Q around?

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

The "Baptist Confession of Faith"
The "Westminster Confession of Faith"
The Catholic Catechism
D.L. Moody
R.C Sproul
Andy Stanley

All of them argue for the continued application of ALL TEN commandments to the saints today - starting in Eden and continued to this very day.

So while some Christian groups oppose them - there are quite a number in support of the TEN commandments - because under the New Covenant God writes the Law of God on the heart and mind according to Jer 31:31-33 and also Hebrews 8.

No wonder then Paul can say when contrasting the ceremonial law with the moral law of God "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

And as both John and Paul state keeping the Law of God is not something the lost will do - or CAN do. It is only for saved saints.


1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.


Rom 8
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Paul makes the point that the lost would be at war with the Law of God - but the saints under the New Covenant condition of the Law written on the heart - would not.

What are your thoughts?

in Christ,

Bob

I think, the only problem today is Law # 4 (Shabbat). But we do rest even 2 days - Sat and Sun, so I think we do observe it? Or most people do.

 

[BobRyan]

I think, the only problem today is Law # 4 (Shabbat). But we do rest even 2 days - Sat and Sun, so I think we do observe it? Or most people do.

I agree that a lot of people have a problem with Commandment #4.

In Lev 23:1-3 and Isaiah 66:23 -- commandment #4 is a "day of holy convocation" and it so for "all mankind" -- that is the OT statement on the scope for the commandment.

And when you look at that list of "confessions of faith" they claim that all TEN are valid -- not downsized to "the NINE Commandments" anywhere.

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

I agree that a lot of people have a problem with Commandment #4.

But when you look at that list of "confessions of faith" they claim that all TEN are valid -- not downsized to "the NINE Commandments" anywhere.

Well, I quite sympathise with a strict adherence to all 10. I think, if you do it in clear conscience and do not judge others, then, it's only beneficial. I worked in Israel for a brief time, and you know, it's of course strange when goes to extreme like when elevator opens on every floor from Fri night to Sat night, or that you should not drive into a Datim (religious) area during Shabbat if you don't want incoming rocks into your vehicle, or a neighbour from apartment next door nocking with schocked eyes to ask you to do smth for them in their home as they can't. Just small annoyances, not more. The good, the positive side, is that the whole country just simply stops. Nobody expects you to do any work. At all. Unless you're fire fighter or ambulace paramedic etc. People, even secular athiests, just take off and go somewhere with family. Best rest I've ever had in my whole life! purest quality time with family, best of ever best that can be. I loved it! So, I think, God ment business when he said, 6 days work, then one day stop and rest. Very very wise!!! Very healthy!!!

 

[BobRyan]

Well, I quite sympathise with a strict adherence to all 10. I think, if you do it in clear conscience and do not judge others, then, it's only beneficial. I worked in Israel for a brief time, and you know, it's of course strange when goes to extreme like when elevator opens on every floor from Fri night to Sat night, or that you should not drive into a Datim (religious) area during Shabbat if you don't want incoming rocks into your vehicle, or a neighbour from apartment next door nocking with schocked eyes to ask you to do smth for them in their home as they can't. Just small annoyances, not more.

Agreed - any commandment of God could be "bent" with tons of "traditions of man"

The good, the positive side, is that the whole country just simply stops. Nobody expects you to do any work. At all. Unless you're fire fighter or ambulace paramedic etc. People, even secular athiests, just take off and go somewhere with family. Best rest I've ever had in my whole life! purest quality time with family, best of ever best that can be. I loved it! So, I think, God ment business when he said, 6 days work, then one day stop and rest. Very very wise!!! Very healthy!!!

Yep - that is all true. And that is how we keep the rest - but there is also the command for "holy convocation" on that day of rest and worship.

And notice the command is not 'one day in 7 is the Sabbath of the Lord Thy God" but rather "THE 7th day IS the Sabbath of the Lord Thy God"

============ so then

"The SEVENTH day is the SABBATH of the Lord thy God" Exodus 20:10

The Lord's Day!

“If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words," Is 58:13

The Son of man is LORD of the Sabbath day - Mark 2:28

So also the "Sabbath was made for MANKIND" Mark 2:27
From "Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23.

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

Agreed - any commandment of God could be "bent" with tons of "traditions of man"




Yep - that is all true. And that is how we keep the rest - but there is also the command for "holy convocation" on that day of rest and worship.

And notice the command is not 'one day in 7 is the Sabbath of the Lord Thy God" but rather "THE 7th day IS the Sabbath of the Lord Thy God"

============ so then

"The SEVENTH day is the SABBATH of the Lord thy God" Exodus 20:10

The Lord's Day!

“If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words," Is 58:13

The Son of man is LORD of the Sabbath day - Mark 2:28

So also the "Sabbath was made for MANKIND" Mark 2:27
From "Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23.

Interesting. Very interesting. I never thought of these "nuances". Surely makes perfect sense to me. How many things do we overlook in God;s book just being careless or hasty or blinded by habit of mind from widely accepted notioins? Well, thank you for explaining. I love it. People kind of relaxed, you know, lazy or small faith or whatever.

On the big scale, I think it happens all too often to many things God tells us. Many many things. We ingnore, we twist, we chose the wide not narrow path. You know. No faith. Pride. Spitting on the Word of God, as we say in my language (utter disrespect).

Not word of God above us, but we above God and point Him to His "corner" in our life, so to speak...... Sad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well. It made me think. I think I must start respecting Shabbat more. Not smth I ever did, except for short time in Eretz Israel when I had no choice but. Otherwise, you know, you just run in the circles of life, just run-run-run around, in this rat race of survival and chasing mirages of modern-day society, that, frankly, you just don't think of important things of God... Shame! Big shame! Foolishness.

I think , if you, dear brother, take God's word seriousely not only on lips but in deeds, it's only good for you, never never bad. As long as it's done in balance of love and obedience, putting love to God and to neighbours first. Not making commandments into goals or value in themselves, like idols. As Jesus said, "Shabbat is for men, not men for Shabbat" - that is, don't be too legalistic, know and understand all the possible exceptions to the requirement (hungry, thirsty, sick, etc etc) - good old common sense.

 

[BobRyan]

Interesting. Very interesting. I never thought of these "nuances". Surely makes perfect sense to me. How many things do we overlook in God;s book just being careless or hasty or blinded by habit of mind from widely accepted notioins? Well, thank you for explaining. I love it. People kind of relaxed, you know, lazy or small faith or whatever.

Many things people accept today are based on "popular impression" but not on "Bible details" -- so it can be a lot of fun to go through these subjects and look at the actual details - as compared to popular narratives.

On the big scale, I think it happens all too often to many things God tells us. Many many things. We ingnore, we twist, we chose the wide not narrow path. You know. No faith. Pride. Spitting on the Word of God, as we say in my language (utter disrespect).

Not word of God above us, but we above God and point Him to His "corner" in our life, so to speak...... Sad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Very good points all --

Let's look at one more example. Christ in discussion with the Jewish leaders - the magisterium of his day -- many "popular ideas" but often they did not compare well with "scripture".

For example

Notice what Jesus said about the obligation of others - when it comes to the "Commandment of God" -- the "Word of God" and "Moses said" -- in Mark 7:6-13


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Certainly from their point of view they would never have accused themselves of diminishing the Ten Commandments in the least.

But what does Christ accuse them of doing?

1. Using their own traditions to nullify one of the Ten Commandments.
2. He calls the Ten Commandments "Moses says" -- and "the Word of God" and "the Commandment of God"
3. He argues that even though they do not claim to be setting aside one of the Commandments of God - they in fact are by observing the example he gives in the case of the 5th Commandment.
4. He argues that this is just one example of the many things they do with their traditions - in this way - nullifying the Word of God. Contradicting the Commandment of God - one of the TEN.
5. He states that it nullifies their worship.
6. Jesus is not defending their additions -- he is defending God's Commandments


And notice how Eph 6:2 uses that same Commandment - predicating it's affirmative on the basis of a still valid unit of TEN in which the command to honor Parents is the "FIRST commandment with a promise"!!

In that post we have this --


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Certainly from their point of view they would never have accused themselves of diminishing the Ten Commandments in the least.

Yet Christ points out their error.

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

Many things people accept today are based on "popular impression" but not on "Bible details" -- so it can be a lot of fun to go through these subjects and look at the actual details - as compared to popular narratives.




Very good points all --

Let's look at one more example. Christ in discussion with the Jewish leaders - the magisterium of his day -- many "popular ideas" but often they did not compare well with "scripture".

For example



In that post we have this --


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Certainly from their point of view they would never have accused themselves of diminishing the Ten Commandments in the least.

Yet Christ points out their error.

Great! Much food for though! Thank you!

 

[bbbbbbb]

Agreed - any commandment of God could be "bent" with tons of "traditions of man"




Yep - that is all true. And that is how we keep the rest - but there is also the command for "holy convocation" on that day of rest and worship.

And notice the command is not 'one day in 7 is the Sabbath of the Lord Thy God" but rather "THE 7th day IS the Sabbath of the Lord Thy God"

============ so then

"The SEVENTH day is the SABBATH of the Lord thy God" Exodus 20:10

The Lord's Day!

“If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words," Is 58:13

The Son of man is LORD of the Sabbath day - Mark 2:28

So also the "Sabbath was made for MANKIND" Mark 2:27
From "Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23.

If, as you assert, there is a command for "holy convocation" (read that, Protestant-style worship service and classes for children) why is it that the Jews have neglected this command and do absolutely nothing on their Sabbath other than rest?

 

[BobRyan]

If, as you assert, there is a command for "holy convocation" (read that, Protestant-style worship service and classes for children) why is it that the Jews have neglected this command and do absolutely nothing on their Sabbath other than rest?

1. I did not write the Bible -- Lev 23:1-3 says the weekly Sabbath is a day of "holy convocation" and Is 66:23 says "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship". When claim that I am asserting these texts - it appears you view me as the author of scripture. I think that would be a mistake.

2. As for Jews not going to Synagogues on the Sabbath - here again the Bible says you are mistaken notice that in Acts 18:4 the Jew AND the believing Gentiles are in the Synagogues "every Sabbath" hearing the Gospel sermons of Paul.

As we all know - Bible details matter.

 

[bbbbbbb]

1. I did not write the Bible -- Lev 23:1-3 says the weekly Sabbath is a day of "holy convocation" and Is 66:23 says "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship". When claim that I am asserting these texts - it appears you view me as the author of scripture. I think that would be a mistake.

2. As for Jews not going to Synagogues on the Sabbath - here again the Bible says you are mistaken notice that in Acts 18:4 the Jew AND the believing Gentiles are in the Synagogues "every Sabbath" hearing the Gospel sermons of Paul.

As we all know - Bible details matter.

Well, you do, indeed, have a dilemma. The Bible says, as you have selectively quoted, "all mankind". Why is it, then that even God's own covenant people, Israel, do not have Protestant-style worship services with children's classes on Saturday?