Gods Sabbath Day (2)

[deu58]

Hi Cliff

If you do not want to go to the law then do not go to the law. But how will you know what should be done and should not be done?

Where else has it been stated and so ewasy to find?

Glad to see you are still around, I will pop you a PM later

Well, For one I would look in the New Testament, The Law of Christ rather than in the law of Moses, Unfortunately for SDA's there are no rules for Sabbath keeping, Probably because whether you like it or not, The Sabbath was a part of the shadow of the things to come,

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Perhaps you read an SDA bible where because of this verse they purposely capitalize every where they believe the Bible is referring to the Saturday weekly Sabbath and where they believe the Bible is referring to a special Sabbath they leave it in a small case s,

Convenient I guess to preserve your particular view but such an alteration can not change the simple fact that Paul was referring to all Sabbaths including the weekly Saturday Sabbath, You see my friend as much as you demand proof from every body God has already provided the proof in the New Testament writings, God is not the author of confusion, If the Sabbath were so important today as was in the days of the Mosaic law God would have made us aware of it,

Ro 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

Ro 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

Ro 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

Ro 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

A very long list of sinful behavior but no mention of violating the Sabbath as we see time after time in the Old Testament,

Ro 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

And if there be any other commandment????? Paul nor any other NT writer ever mentions the Sabbath as a commandment any where,

You have been taught that the SDA position is based on the Bible but this is not really true either,

EARLY WRITINGS PAGE 42 Ellen G White, SDA Prophetess and leader,

I saw that the present test on the Sabbath could not come until the mediation of Jesus in the holy place was finished and He had passed within the second veil; therefore Christians who fell asleep before the door was opened into the most holy, when the midnight cry was finished, at the seventh month, 1844, and who had not kept the true Sabbath, now rest in hope; for they had not the light and the test on the Sabbath which we now have since that door was opened.

Now Cliff, if your views on the Sabbath are truly based on the Bible then can you explain to us just exactly why the Sabbath was revealed as a test to Ellen G White that COULD NOT NOT COME until after the failed Miller time setting scheme of 1844??????

Ellen White plainly states that the Sabbath was not binding on any pre 1844 Christians BECAUSE THEY DID NOT HAVE THE LIGHT THAT THE SABBATH WAS BINDING, So Christians before 1844 did not have Bibles to study to see if the Sabbath was still binding on Christians today???????

Where did this "Light" come from??? It did not come from the Bible at all my friend it came solely on the belief of her followers that EGW was a prophetess and God revealed this special non Biblical information to her, Thus the necessity of captilalizing all references to the Saturday Sabbath in SDA Bibles in an attempt to help promote the sputterings of Sister Ellen White

Yours in Christ
Deu 58

 

[Cliff2]

Convenient I guess to preserve your particular view but such an alteration can not change the simple fact that Paul was referring to all Sabbaths including the weekly Saturday Sabbath, You see my friend as much as you demand proof from every body God has already provided the proof in the New Testament writings, God is not the author of confusion, If the Sabbath were so important today as was in the days of the Mosaic law God would have made us aware of it,

I would turn around and say if Sunday, the first day of the week was so important we would have been told about it.

It just so happens we are not told about the change in the New Testament at all.

 

[deu58]

Hi Cliff

I would turn around and say if Sunday, the first day of the week was so important we would have been told about it.

It just so happens we are not told about the change in the New Testament at all.

Turn it any way you want to, I have already supplied the proof that your position is not based on the Bible at all as you SDA's always claim,

What can be proved from the NT is that no one day is exalted above another as the Saturday Sabbath was exalted in the OT,

There is no question that God revealed through his Angel and to succeeding generations of OT Torah observant Jews through his prophets that the Sabbath was exalted above all other days,

Ex 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Ne 13:17 Then I contended with the nobles of Judah, and said unto them, What evil thing is this that ye do, and profane the sabbath day?

Isa 56:2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.


Jer 17:22 Neither carry forth a burden out of your houses on the sabbath day, neither do ye any work, but hallow ye the sabbath day, as I commanded your fathers.

God makes it clear and plain what day is to be held in regard above any other, In the NT he makes it as plainly clear through his true NT teachers and Prophets that no day was held in regard any higher than any other and that the law given to Old Testament Israel does not hold power over those who accept the law of Christ under the New Testament covenant,

Ac 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Ac 15:25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,

Ac 15:26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Ac 15:27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.

Ac 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

Ac 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.


Ac 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

Ac 21:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

Ac 21:22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.

Ac 21:23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;

Ac 21:24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

Ac 21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and fromfornication.


Ro 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Ro 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Some SDA's try to say that this verse is about feasting only but verse 14:6 distinctly separates the two, Paul addresses the issue of observing or not observing days first and feasting or not feasting second,

Ga 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Ga 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

Ga 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.



Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:


Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Other Versions are even more explicit in interpreting Col 2:16, Thus the the reason most SDA's encourage people to only read the KJV, They seem to think they can "turn this around" in the KJV to support their position,

NIV Colossians 2:16
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

NASB Colossians 2:16
Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--

AMPLIFIED Bible,Colossians 2:16
Therefore let no one sit in judgment on you in matters of food and drink, or with regard to a feast day or a New Moon or a Sabbath.

So the truth is Cliff we have plenty of New Testament support for our right under the law of Christ to keep Sunday or any other day for that matter as long as we worship God in spirit and truth,

Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

But as for you SDA's, No matter which way you try to turn it you only have the visions of an un Biblical prophetess to support your position,

EARLY WRITINGS PAGE 42 Ellen G White, SDA Prophetess and leader,

I saw that the present test on the Sabbath could not come until the mediation of Jesus in the holy place was finished and He had passed within the second veil; therefore Christians who fell asleep before the door was opened into the most holy, when the midnight cry was finished, at the seventh month, 1844, and who had not kept the true Sabbath, now rest in hope; for they had not the light and the test on the Sabbath which we now have since that door was opened.


And this is all you really have, which is nothing,

yours in Christ
Deu 58

 

[hraedisc]

Seventh Day Baptists existed for centuries before the birth of Ellen White. Their stand was based upon the Bible alone. Prophets were not necessary to know this. Additionally, there have always been Christian Sabbath-keepers down through the centuries - ever since the first century.

 

[hraedisc]

2nd Century Sabbath Observance​

http://bible-sabbath.com/history/2nd_cen.htm​

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3rd Century Sabbath Observance​

http://bible-sabbath.com/history/3rd_cen.htm​

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THE SABBATH IN THE RECORD OF THE EARLY FATHERS​

http://bible-sabbath.com/andrews/hos/hos18.htm​

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THE SABBATH AND FIRST-DAY DURING THE FIRST FIVE CENTURIES​

http://bible-sabbath.com/andrews/hos/hos19.htm​

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TRACES OF THE SABBATH DURING THE DARK AGES​

http://bible-sabbath.com/andrews/hos/hos21.htm​

 

[deu58]

Hi <><

Seventh Day Baptists existed for centuries before the birth of Ellen White. Their stand was based upon the Bible alone. Prophets were not necessary to know this. Additionally, there have always been Christian Sabbath-keepers down through the centuries - ever since the first century.

Well, So what????? They have every right to worship on the Sabbath if they want to, And so do you, Where people cross the line is when they demand that every body must do just like them or they risk losing their salvation, You do not have that right, You have the right to share your belief in spirit and truth, Which you SDA's do not do,

You demand that people follow you or face the wrath of God, Just as your Prophetess threatened those who rejected her so called visions as rejected by God, Salvation was no longer believing in and on Christ, According to her salvation was now also dependant upon accepting her visions as truly from God and Mandatory Sabbath keeping,

Part of a statement from parishioners of Gilbert Cranmer
Some of the church got very much excited over the course elder Cranmer proposed to pursue in regard to the "shut-door" question, and Mr. George Leighton went to Battle Creek to confer with elder White on the subject. On his return, Mr. Leighton said that elder White told him not to let elder Cranmer preach to the church at Otsego. According to my recollection of the matter elder Cranmer then wrote to Battle Creek and requested a decision as to whether they considered him a pastor, and as to his right to preach among them. The result of their conclusion in the matter was that they refused him the privilege of preaching to them or for them for the reason that he did not hold the visions of Ellen G. White to be inspired. Mr. Leighton said in our presence that the visions were inspired, that they were better than the Biblebecause they were warm and fresh from the throne of God, and that anyone who did not accept them as inspiration absolutely would be damned. The visions were made a test of fellowship from that time. These statements we solemnly aver to be true, and we were members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church in Otsego at the time.

The Story of Redemption. Ch 51, The Second Angels Message 364-365


When the churches spurned the counsel of God by rejecting the advent message, the Lord rejected them. The first angel was followed by a second, proclaiming, "Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication." Rev. 14:8. This message was understood by Adventists to be an announcement

Copied from Broadside 1 written April 6 1846

I turned to look at the company who were still bowed before the throne; they did not know that Jesus had left it. Satan appeared to be by the throne, trying to carry on the work of God. I saw them look up to the throne, and pray, "Father, give us Thy Spirit." Satan would then breathe upon them an unholy influence; in it there was light and much power, but no sweet love, joy, and peace. Satan's object was to keep them deceived and to draw back and deceive God's children.

Early Writings, p. 261.

I saw that as the Jews crucified Jesus, so the nominal churches had crucified these messages and therefore they have no knowledge of the way into the most holy, and they cannot be benefited by the intercession of Jesus there. Like the Jews, who offered their useless sacrifices, they offer up their useless prayers to the apartment which Jesus has left; and Satan, pleased with the deception, assumes a religious character, and leads the minds of these professed Christians to himself .


Ellen G White in Europe 1885-1887 By D.A Delafield
Ch 14 The First Visit to Italy.


Ellen White attempted to explain that such an important question called for more than a yes-or-no answer, and in between Malan's outbursts tried to tell him that if a person had light on the Sabbath he could not be saved while rejecting it. {EGWE 141.4}




Counsels on Health, Section 5 Sanitariums-Their Objects and Their Aims Pg.238


I pray that my brethren may realize that the third angel's message means much to us, and that the observance of the true Sabbath is to be the sign that distinguishes those who serve God from those who serve Him not.

It was the vision of Ellen White that claimed that the Saturday Sabbath was now binding on all Christians and a test for all Christians, Not the Bible,

How did your Pioneers view the visions and writings of Sister White?



Review and Herald Supplement, August 14, 1883.

“It is from the standpoint of the light that has come through the Spirit of Prophecy that the question will be considered, believing as we do that the Spirit of Prophecy is the only infallible interpreter of Bible principles, since it is the Christ, through this agency, giving real meaning of his own words.”


G. A. Irwin, General Conference President, from the tract The Mark of the Beast, p. 1.

“As with ancient prophets, the talking is done by the Holy Spirit through her vocal organs. The prophets spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.” Review and Herald, Oct. 5, 1914.

Arthur White, grandson of Ellen White, and for years the head of the Ellen G. White Estate, made the following claim:

The Ellen G. White Writings, p. 15.

Seventh-day Adventists are uniquely fortunate in approaching the question of inspiration of the prophets. We are not left to find our way, drawing our conclusions from writings of two thousand years and more ago, that have come down to us through varied transcriptions and translations. With us it is an almost contemporary matter, for we had a prophet in our midst. It is generally granted by the careful student of her works that the experience of Ellen G. White was no different from that of the prophets of old. What is more, rather than having in our possession only relatively few chapters of a handful of letters as is the case of the extant records of the Bible prophets, we have the full range of Ellen G. White’s writings, penned through a period of 70 years. She wrote in the English language, so we are not confronted with the problems of translation.

And this is what they have passed on to you, You do not share biblical truth, You demand we accept and follow the teachings of sister White that have been passed down to you from the SDA pioneers,

If you kept the Saturday Sabbath because it was something you wanted to do, Maybe say because you simply wanted to more imatate Jesus, and shared it as a choice rather than a demand threatening Gods wrath on those who do not see it the way you do then I would applaud your choice to keep the Sabbath rather than Sunday, But considering what I know about Adventism and the shroud of deception they use to teach what they really believe as Paul said, I praise you not!!!

yours in Christ
Deu 58

 

[hraedisc]

...Where people cross the line is when they demand that every body must do just like them or they risk losing their salvation....

Do you teach:
If you are an unrepentant polytheist, you risk salvation.
If you are an unrepentant idolater, you risk salvation.
If you are an unrepentant taker of the LORD's name in vain, you risk salvation.
If you are an unrepentant dishonerer of parents, you risk salvation.
If you are an unrepentant murderer, you risk salvation.
If you are an unrepentant thief, you risk salvation.
If you are an unrepentant liar, you risk salvation.
If you are an unrepentant coveter, you risk salvation.
???

Some are consistent.

 

[deu58]

Hi <><

Do you teach:
If you are an unrepentant polytheist, you risk salvation.
If you are an unrepentant idolater, you risk salvation.
If you are an unrepentant taker of the LORD's name in vain, you risk salvation.
If you are an unrepentant dishonerer of parents, you risk salvation.
If you are an unrepentant murderer, you risk salvation.
If you are an unrepentant thief, you risk salvation.
If you are an unrepentant liar, you risk salvation.
If you are an unrepentant coveter, you risk salvation.
???

Some are consistent.

Can you show me where in NT we are taught that not worshiping on the Sabbath will cost us our salvation???

I see you agree that Jesus alone is not enough for salvation, It is Jesus + the Jewish Sabbath + accepting the Biblical interpretations of Ellen G White,

yours in Christ
deu58

 

[BrightCandle]

I suppose so, if your ministry, as was St. Paul's, is to convert the lost Jews to Christianity.

Oblio:

Have you not read the very words of Jesus in Acts 9:15, where Jesus said that Paul would be his chosen instrument to carry his message to the Gentiles?


Time and time again when numerous examples of Jesus and Paul are brought forth from the Bible that show them keeping the Sabbath, it is said that they were keeping the Sabbath because they were Jews, or that they were trying to reach Jews. Since when were all of Paul's or Jesus' efforts limited to only the Jews? There are numerous examples of both, Paul and Jesus reaching out to as many people as possible, it didn't matter to them, whether they were Romans, Greeks, Jews, Samaritans, Pagans, etc., and yet they both kept the Sabbath, not Sunday.

 

[Cliff2]

Hi <><



Can you show me where in NT we are taught that not worshiping on the Sabbath will cost us our salvation???

I see you agree that Jesus alone is not enough for salvation, It is Jesus + the Jewish Sabbath + accepting the Biblical interpretations of Ellen G White,

yours in Christ
deu58

I can't answer for our brother but I am sure he does believe that Jesus is enough.

 

[deu58]

Hi Cliff

I can't answer for our brother but I am sure he does believe that Jesus is enough.

Which is a problem for SDA's, If you say you believe that Jesus is enough then you acknowledge that your own prophetess is wrong, Your own Ellen White said that any one who hears your third angels message that the Sabbath is now binding and a true test for salvation and rejects that message will lose their salvation,

That means any Sunday keeping Christian who has read this thread and does not accept your position has lost their salvation,

Ellen G White in Europe 1885-1887 By D.A Delafield
Ch 14 The First Visit to Italy.


Ellen White attempted to explain that such an important question called for more than a yes-or-no answer, and in between Malan's outbursts tried to tell him that if a person had light on the Sabbath he could not be saved while rejecting it. {EGWE 141.4}

She added the third angels message to salvation,

So That is Jesus +Sabbath = Salvation,

You can not find this information in the bible, It is only found in the Spirit of Prophecy writings of Ellen G White, To believe this you must truly believe that Ellen G White was truly a prohetess of God and received new information from God as to how Christians are to properly worship God after 1844,

Unfortunatly, There is no other prophet/prophetess to confirm this information as is required by the bible,

1co 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

1co 14:30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.

So you must have faith in the visions of sisiter White ,

So seeings she provided information she claims to be necessary for salvation that can not be proven by the Bible nor confirmed by another Prophet she has added belief and faith in her gift of prophecy as a necessary componet of salvation, The information available to us from the bible is no longer enough,
We need to accept her new information that according to her was not available to us before 1844, Also we need to let her interpret the scriptures for us, The Holy Spirit now only speaks through Ellen White, We must study and follow the information she received in "vision" to learn how to truly live a life pleasing to God.


"The Holy Ghost is the Author of the Scriptures and of the Spirit of Prophecy."
{Selected Messages,Vol.3 p.30}

"These books contain clear ,straight, unalterable truth and they should be certainly appreciated The instruction they contain is not of human production" {Letter h-339,Dec 26,1904}

"I beg of you for Christ sake to consider what I say :for I say it not of myself. It is the word of God to you" {Letter 25b, 1895,pp 1-3 to Brother and Sister Hare, April 1895}


“Yet, now when I send you a testimony of warning and reproof, many of you declare it to be merely the opinion of Sister White. You thereby insulted the Spirit of God.” Testimonies 5, p.64.


So the SDA concept of salvation is Jesus + Keeping the Jewish Sabbath + belief and faith in the prophetic authority of sister Ellen G White= salvation,

So, at least to me, you are not really a Christian religion, you are a Christian cult,

 

[deu58]

Hello Bright Candle

Time and time again when numerous examples of Jesus and Paul are brought forth from the Bible that show them keeping the Sabbath, it is said that they were keeping the Sabbath because they were Jews, or that they were trying to reach Jews. Since when were all of Paul's or Jesus' efforts limited to only the Jews? There are numerous examples of both, Paul and Jesus reaching out to as many people as possible, it didn't matter to them, whether they were Romans, Greeks, Jews, Samaritans, Pagans, etc., and yet they both kept the Sabbath, not Sunday.

Ac 21:24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

Ac 21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.


We also see that Paul went into the temple to perform duties prescribed by the the Law of Moses that he knew full well were no longer required under the NT law of Christ, We also see that the apostles taught that Gentiles were were not required to follow Jewish practices, Why did he go to the temple? To make peace with the Jews, He simply went through the motions to try to reach the Jews and further the cause of Christ, Which is the same reason he went into the synagogue's to preach Christ risen to the Jews,

Ac 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

Ac 17:3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

Ac 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

Ac 18:19 And he came to Ephesus, and left them there: but he himself entered into the synagogue, and reasoned with the Jews.

Actually we do not see Paul "keeping "the Sabbath, What we see is Paul going to the synagogue to witness Christ to the Jews, The Bible does not say he went there to worship, It says he went there to reason with the Jews, You have automatically jumped to the conclusion that Paul felt he was still under obligation to worship on a specific day,

Considering the teachings of Paul concerning days I believe you have concluded wrongly,

Ro 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Ga 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

Ga 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.


Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Paul was a master teacher, And not one time did he, or any other NT writer, say,

"But there is one Sabbath as you all know that we keep after the manner of Moses, Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy, It was created as a memorial to creation and in 1844 it shall become a test of true salvation for all believers,"

Even a mediocre teacher would have clarified their teaching if the weekly Sabbath still bore such great importance

yours in Christ
Deu 58

 

[Oblio]

Have you not read the very words of Jesus in Acts 9:15, where Jesus said that Paul would be his chosen instrument to carry his message to the Gentiles?

I would invite you to read the Epistle of the Holy Apostle Paul to the Hebrews/

 

[Cliff2]

I would invite you to read the Epistle of the Holy Apostle Paul to the Hebrews/

That does not take anything away from Paul's missionary journey to the Gentiles.

 

[hraedisc]

Hi <><

Can you show me where in NT we are taught that not worshiping on the Sabbath will cost us our salvation???

That isn't necessary. There is no direct quote of the 3rd Commandment either. Are you saying a person can take the name of the LORD in vain with impunity and go to the grave in a state of unrepentance (unconfessed and unforsaken sin) and still have "salvation?"

Hi <><

...I see you agree that Jesus alone is not enough for salvation, It is Jesus + the Jewish Sabbath ...
yours in Christ
deu58

Do you believe you should honor your mother and father? Does that mean you believe Jesus alone is not enough for salvation?

Is not your thinking warped?

When we get Jesus in the new birth, we get everything He stands for along with Him.

Hebrews 10:16http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?book_id=65&chapter=10&verse=16&version=9&context=verse
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Ezekiel 36
25Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Take note, readers, just who wars against God's law, rather than allow God to write it in them.

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

 

[Cliff2]

It has been said many times before but it is still worth saying again.

Remmber it was Jesus who says it.

"The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath"

JEW is not spelt MAN.

The Sabbath was made for everyone.

 

[BrightCandle]

Hello Bright Candle



Ac 21:24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

Ac 21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.


We also see that Paul went into the temple to perform duties prescribed by the the Law of Moses that he knew full well were no longer required under the NT law of Christ, We also see that the apostles taught that Gentiles were were not required to follow Jewish practices, Why did he go to the temple? To make peace with the Jews, He simply went through the motions to try to reach the Jews and further the cause of Christ, Which is the same reason he went into the synagogue's to preach Christ risen to the Jews,

Ac 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

Ac 17:3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

Ac 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

Ac 18:19 And he came to Ephesus, and left them there: but he himself entered into the synagogue, and reasoned with the Jews.

Actually we do not see Paul "keeping "the Sabbath, What we see is Paul going to the synagogue to witness Christ to the Jews, The Bible does not say he went there to worship, It says he went there to reason with the Jews, You have automatically jumped to the conclusion that Paul felt he was still under obligation to worship on a specific day,

Considering the teachings of Paul concerning days I believe you have concluded wrongly,

Ro 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Ga 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

Ga 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.


Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Paul was a master teacher, And not one time did he, or any other NT writer, say,

"But there is one Sabbath as you all know that we keep after the manner of Moses, Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy, It was created as a memorial to creation and in 1844 it shall become a test of true salvation for all believers,"

Even a mediocre teacher would have clarified their teaching if the weekly Sabbath still bore such great importance

yours in Christ
Deu 58

It has been said here on the CF many times that the change from Sabbath worship to Sunday worship took place after the resurrection, if that be the case would not Paul have know about it? And yet, time and time again, Paull preached the Gospel to the Gentiles on the Sabbath. Case in point: When Paul was at Antioch, see Acts 13, it says in verse 44 "The next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord." Antioch had a lot of Gentiles in it, and if Paul knew that Sunday was the new day of worship for Christians wouldn't he at least told the Gentiles to come out on Sunday to hear his preaching instead of on the "next Sabbath"?

 

[BrightCandle]

Even a mediocre teacher would have clarified their teaching if the weekly Sabbath still bore such great importance

yours in Christ
Deu 58

If Paul had taught that the Sabbath was changed to Sunday, can you imagine the uproar he would have created in the Jewish community? The evidence is that he didn't, because there is no record of the Jews accusing him of it, in fact in his defense, Paul said in Acts 23 that he "Neither against the law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar have I committed any offense." How could Paul had said this, if he believed and kept Sunday as the Sabbath?

 

[Cliff2]

If Paul had taught that the Sabbath was changed to Sunday, can you imagine the uproar he would have created in the Jewish community? The evidence is that he didn't because there is no record of the Jews accusing him of it, in fact in his defense, Paul said in Acts 23 that he "Neither against the law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar have I committed any offense." How could Paul had said this, if he believed and keep Sunday as the Sabbath?

We still have not found a text that says that the day of worship has been changed.

Paul never preached at all that the day has been changed.

Christ never gave any hint to the change at all.

 

[BrightCandle]

I would invite you to read the Epistle of the Holy Apostle Paul to the Hebrews/

And what does Paul say in the book of Hebrews?

Heb. 4:9 "So then there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God." (ESV) Note, the ESV and NASB both are recognized as the #1 and #2 most literal translations, and they both say a capital "S" Sabbath rest, not a Sunday rest!