Gods Sabbath Day (2)

[deu58]

Hi Bright Candle

If Paul had taught that the Sabbath was changed to Sunday, can you imagine the uproar he would have created in the Jewish community? The evidence is that he didn't, because there is no record of the Jews accusing him of it, in fact in his defense, Paul said in Acts 23 that he "Neither against the law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar have I committed any offense." How could Paul had said this, if he believed and kept Sunday as the Sabbath?

Apparently you missed the part in the book of Acts that explains Paul caused an uproar in the Jewish community,

Ac 21:30 And all the city was moved, and the people ran together: and they took Paul, and drew him out of the temple: and forthwith the doors were shut.

Ac 21:31 And as they went about to kill him, tidings came unto the chief captain of the band, that all Jerusalem was in an uproar.

Well, for one How could he violate a law that was no longer in effect?

Paul would not have gone out and bought a ham sandwich, But he did not chastise the Gentiles for what they ate,

In Acts Paul shaved his head and took a vow, But we see him teaching no such practice to the gentiles,

Now why would Paul do one thing and teach another?????

1co 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

Because he truly understood what happened at the cross, Thus he never taught us to worship on any specific day,

1co 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.

1co 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

1co 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

yours in Christ
deu58

 

[deu58]

Hello Bright Candle

It has been said here on the CF many times that the change from Sabbath worship to Sunday worship took place after the resurrection, if that be the case would not Paul have know about it? And yet, time and time again, Paull preached the Gospel to the Gentiles on the Sabbath. Case in point: When Paul was at Antioch, see Acts 13, it says in verse 44 "The next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord." Antioch had a lot of Gentiles in it, and if Paul knew that Sunday was the new day of worship for Christians wouldn't he at least told the Gentiles to come out on Sunday to hear his preaching instead of on the "next Sabbath"?

All this ground has been well covered before, Here is part of a recent post i put to answer Cliff and <>< on basically the same subject,

The Old Covenant which commanded the Sabbath be observed,

2co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

2co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

Verse 3:7 explicitly refers to the commandments " engraven in stones".

And the New Testament which gives NO DAY any such authority,

Ga 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Ga 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

Ga 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.


Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Here we have Paul who is traveling with Priscilla and Aquila, Both Christians and Jewish, Now it is the Sabbath and yet Priscilla and Aquila do not go to the synagogue, They stay in Ephesus, If Paul was going to go to the synagogue to worship then why didn't they, especially being Jewish go to the synagogue with him????

In fact there are no references at all of ANY Christians gathering ever on the Sabbath day to worship,

But as you already know there are several references to Christians gathering on Sunday, To break bread, {Eucharist} and to hear the teachings of the apostles, {Sermons}

I have to jump to no conclusions to show that the New Testament shows no regard for days, shows Christians gathering together to break bread and receive religious instruction on Sunday, that there is no Biblical record of Christians ever gathering on the Sabbath and the only people the Bible shows actually observing the Sabbath is Jews and their Gentile Proselytes,

Whereas you have to add to the record to get even the most remote semblance of support

On your side, All the verses you attempt to use containing the Sabbath in the New Testament show it in a negative light and there is no reference to Christians gathering on the Sabbath for worship, On the Sabbath the only people in the synagogue's were the Jews and the Gentile Proselytes of the Jews, No Christians were there for worship or instruction,


yours in Christ
deu58

 

[JustinWindsor]

“But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.” (Rom 3:21-26)

 

[Cliff2]

The Old Covenant which commanded the Sabbath be observed,

Interesting, only the Sabbath was not the old covenant.

The old covenant was Israel's response to the keeping of the law.

It was about how it should be kept.

They had said "All that the Lord has said we will do"

It was righteousness by works.

Adam believed in righteounss by faith as we do, that is the new covenant.

The everlasting/new covenant are the same. Ratified by the blood of Jesus Christ.

The people before the cross are saved the same as the people after the cross. All by the spilt blood of Jesus Christ.

There are no two ways for salavation.

That is why the Sabbath has nothing to do with the covenants.

 

[Oblio]

The people before the cross are saved the same as the people after the cross. All by the spilt blood of Jesus Christ.

Agreed !

We are not saved by keeping the OT Jewish Law, including Sabbath worship.

 

[Cliff2]

Agreed !

We are not saved by keeping the OT Jewish Law, including Sabbath worship.

I can agree with that. The keeping of the law saved no one and never will.

We are saved because Jesus kept the law perfectly and shed His blood on the cross that saves sinners.

Only a perfect sacrifice can make a perfect Saviour.

 

[deu58]

Hi Cliff

The Gentiles came to Paul where and when he preached and it was always on the Sabbath.

You have it backwards, The Gentiles went to the Jews in the Synagogue on the Sabbath to hear Moses, Paul went into the Synagogue not to hear Moses but to Preach Jesus and Christ Risen,

Ac 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.



It was the Gentiles that asked Paul to come back on the Sabbath because they were imitating the religious Jews and were not Christians, It was not Paul who told them to come back on the Sabbath

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[Cliff2]

Hi Cliff




You have it backwards, The Gentiles went to the Jews in the Synagogue on the Sabbath to hear Moses, Paul went into the Synagogue not to hear Moses but to Preach Jesus and Christ Risen,

Ac 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.



It was the Gentiles that asked Paul to come back on the Sabbath because they were imitating the religious Jews and were not Christians, It was not Paul who told them to come back on the Sabbath

yours in Christ
deu 58

He certainly did not say to them, well guys the sabbath has been changed so come in on the first day of the week.

He did not say it like that at all.

They all came back the next Sabbath.

 

[deu58]

Hi Cliff

He certainly did not say to them, well guys the sabbath has been changed so come in on the first day of the week.

He did not say it like that at all.

They all came back the next Sabbath.

Hmmm, Interesting, Where they all already Christians???

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[BrightCandle]

Here we have Paul who is traveling with Priscilla and Aquila, Both Christians and Jewish, Now it is the Sabbath and yet Priscilla and Aquila do not go to the synagogue, They stay in Ephesus, If Paul was going to go to the synagogue to worship then why didn't they, especially being Jewish go to the synagogue with him????


On your side, All the verses you attempt to use containing the Sabbath in the New Testament show it in a negative light and there is no reference to Christians gathering on the Sabbath for worship, On the Sabbath the only people in the synagogue's were the Jews and the Gentile Proselytes of the Jews, No Christians were there for worship or instruction,

yours in Christ
deu58

Just because Aquila and Priscilla didn't go to the synagogue on the Sabbath doesn't mean that they didn't keep the Sabbath! The early Christians formed home based Sabbath keeping groups when they were persecuted and thrown out of the synagogues. Paul as we know felt a special calling to reach out to his Jewish brethren being that he was a Pharisee, and had the advantage of a long time of study of the Jewish OT. But, when the Jews rejected the message that Jesus was the Messiah, he often then preached the Gospel to the "Greeks" on the Sabbath! Paul as he said in his own words "tried to be all things to all men". Did you note, too, in Acts 18 that Paul had taken a Nazirite vow as described in Numbers 6: 1-21, do you really think that if Paul fullfilled the vows of the Nazirites that he would not keep the Sabbath himself and preach that it had been changed to the first day of the week, that is nonsense!

Paul and the early Apsotles, and their converts made up majority the first Christians in Asian Minor in the region that we now call Turkey, where the seven churches were established by Paul and the other Apostles.

Sometimes Paul met with fellow Christians on the Sabbath without going to a synagogue, case in point, Acts 16: 11-15

11So putting out to sea from Troas, we ran a straight course to Samothrace, and on the day following to Neapolis;

12and from there to Philippi, which is a leading city of the district of (Macedonia, a Roman colony; and we were staying in this city for some days.

13And on the Sabbath day we went outside the gate to a riverside, where we were supposing that there would be a place of prayer; and we sat down and began speaking to the women who had assembled.

14A woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; and the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul.

15And when she and her household had been baptized, she urged us, saying, "If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house and stay." And she prevailed upon us.

 

[deu58]

Hi Bright Candle

The early Christians formed home based Sabbath keeping groups when they were persecuted and thrown out of the synagogues.

Do you have scriptural support of ALL Gentile Christians gathering in these houses on the Sabbath for worship????

Naturally there would be some Christians gathering on the Sabbath in some places, But do you have any scriptural proof that ALL Christians gathered on the Sabbath???? or that they were instructed to??

But, when the Jews rejected the message that Jesus was the Messiah, he often then preached the Gospel to the "Greeks" on the Sabbath!

Were these Greeks already Christians??? Or were they Jewish Proselytes and Pagans????? Why would he be preaching the gospel to those who had already received the gospel????

Paul as he said in his own words "tried to be all things to all men". Did you note, too, in Acts 18 that Paul had taken a Nazirite vow as described in Numbers 6: 1-21, do you really think that if Paul fullfilled the vows of the Nazirites that he would not keep the Sabbath himself and preach that it had been changed to the first day of the week, that is nonsense!

Have you noted that in Acts ch 21 that Gentile Christians were not taught to take vows nor were required to worship after the Jewish manner and customs????

Ac 21:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

Ac 21:22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.

Ac 21:23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;

Ac 21:24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

Ac 21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.


Are you aware that the vow of the Nazerite is a part of what you SDA's call the ceremonial law and believe it was abolished????

Nu 6:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When either man or woman shall separate themselves to vow a vow of a Nazarite, to separate themselves unto the LORD:

Paul knew that this law was no longer in effect yet he choose to do it any way, Which is called a freewill offering and perfectly acceptable even today,

This is now the reason my wife keeps the Sabbath and how she shares it with others rather than some Ellen White gibberish

Sometimes Paul met with fellow Christians on the Sabbath without going to a synagogue, case in point, Acts 16: 11-15

You seem to have very poor study habits when it comes to the Scripture, This is the second time in as many days that you have taken a verse out context in an attempt to support your doctrine, You say he is talking to Christians but the very verses you posted show they were not Christians, These were God fearers who had not yet heard the gospel of Jesus Christ,

The Holy Spirit ministered to Lydias heart as Paul was speaking, She opened her heart to Christ and was then Baptized into the body of Christ right there, She came to the river a Jewish proselyte and left it a Baptized born again Christian, There are no verses showing Paul ever gathering on the Sabbath with born again Christians,

11So putting out to sea from Troas, we ran a straight course to Samothrace, and on the day following to Neapolis;

12and from there to Philippi, which is a leading city of the district of (Macedonia, a Roman colony; and we were staying in this city for some days.

13And on the Sabbath day we went outside the gate to a riverside, where we were supposing that there would be a place of prayer; and we sat down and began speaking to the women who had assembled.

14A woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; and the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul.

15And when she and her household had been baptized, she urged us, saying, "If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house and stay." And she prevailed upon us.

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[Cliff2]

Naturally there would be some Christians gathering on the Sabbath in some places, But do you have any scriptural proof that ALL Christians gathered on the Sabbath???? or that they were instructed to??

What about the text you quoted?

13And on the Sabbath day we went outside the gate to a riverside, where we were supposing that there would be a place of prayer; and we sat down and began speaking to the women who had assembled.

I keep saying and no one can give me a text that says the first day of the week is the Sabbath. Paul or anyone else does not say to keep the first day of the week holy.

 

[JohnJones]

I keep saying and no one can give me a text that says the first day of the week is the Sabbath.

That's because it isn't. The Christian Sabbath is Heaven itslef. Observe the following passage:

Heb 4:7-11 "Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. {8} For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. {9} There remaineth therefore a [sabbath] rest to the people of God. {10} For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. {11} Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief."

Under the Old Testament the Jews kept the Sabbath command and rested on the 7th day, yet Jesus did not give them rest. So, God limited the rest to a future Day--He spoke of ANOTHER Day which will be The Day of Rest. This rest still remains, but what is it? He who will enter this rest must CEASE from all work! How can we cease from all work unless we die? This is heaven.

13And on the Sabbath day we went outside the gate to a riverside, where we were supposing that there would be a place of prayer; and we sat down and began speaking to the women who had assembled.

The meeting on the riverside was Jewish women, not Christians. Paul went there not to worship Christ but to conver those Jewish women.

Heb 10:25 "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching."

Paul went to the Jewish Synagogue to preach to the Jews on the Sabbath. He wasn't going to a Christian Assembly! It was a Jewish Assembly! IF the Christian Assembly was also on the Sabbath, Paul was missing the Christian Assembly to attend the Jewish one! He was forsaking the assembling of Christians together. The fact that Paul would not forsake the Christian assembly (combined with the fact that the collection was to be on the first day of the week and Acts 20:7 was on the first day of the week) is proof that Christians did not meet on the Sabbath.

 

[deu58]

What about the text you quoted?

Ummm OK I give, What are you talking about

I keep saying and no one can give me a text that says the first day of the week is the Sabbath. Paul or anyone else does not say to keep the first day of the week holy

Oh Yes you most definitly keep saying

That is because you never listen, You have been answered now who knows how many times by who knows how many people on more than one forum, But you know if you acknowledge the answer then it is all over for you,

Your doctrines are founded on the shifting sands of the SDA Spirit of Prophecy rather than the rock of Scripture,

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[deu58]

Hi Cliff

What about the text you quoted?

No wonder you keep asking over and over, You do not read the posts, Go back and read my comment on acts 16 and you will have your answer,

yours in Christ
deu58

 

[Cliff2]

Ummm OK I give, What are you talking about




Oh Yes you most definitly keep saying

That is because you never listen, You have been answered now who knows how many times by who knows how many people on more than one forum, But you know if you acknowledge the answer then it is all over for you,

Your doctrines are founded on the shifting sands of the SDA Spirit of Prophecy rather than the rock of Scripture,

yours in Christ
deu 58

Interesting, you read Revelation and many times it says that God's remnant are those who keep the commandments of God.

 

[deu58]

Hi Cliff

Interesting, you read Revelation and many times it says that God's remnant are those who keep the commandments of God.

So you are a member of some organization that is involved in restoring the Jewish temple in Jerusalem so you can start sacrificing again?

You are practicing all the purification rituals etc and all the other Commandments of God concerning the Law?

What did God Command us to do in the Gospels?


Mt 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

I do not see where God said please so seems to me that we better listen, So what did Jesus say about keeping commandments?

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Jesus kept the commandments of his Father but I need to keep the commandments of Jesus? Hmmm, Again no please, Must not be a request Better go see if Jesus issued any commandments,

Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

Hmm, Looks like I need to follow this commandment and all the other teachings of Jesus to be obedient to Gods commandments, As for you, Have fun in Jerusalem and send us a post card,

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[JohnJones]

"If you, Peter, who were born a Jew live like a Gentile rather than a Jew, why do you compell the Gentiles to Judaize?" (Galatians 2:14)

 

[BrightCandle]

Ummm OK I give, What are you talking about




Oh Yes you most definitly keep saying

That is because you never listen, You have been answered now who knows how many times by who knows how many people on more than one forum, But you know if you acknowledge the answer then it is all over for you,

Your doctrines are founded on the shifting sands of the SDA Spirit of Prophecy rather than the rock of Scripture,

yours in Christ
deu 58

deu58:

It seems that you mention the writings of Ellen G. White more than Cliff or myself. Note, that Cliff and I mention only the Bible as the basis of our faith. Let me put it this way, deu5, if God felt it was important enough to write the Ten Commandments in stone (including the Sabbath) would it not make sense that if anyone of those commandments was to be changed that God would make it very clear so as to there being no doubt in anyone's mind that the 1st day is now to be the Sabbath, not the 7th day any longer. But, we know from the Bible, that neither Jesus, nor the Apostles said any such thing. Yes, Paul said that the law of Moses (written on paper) was done away with at the cross, but no where does it say that the Ten Commandments have been done away with or changed! You and others have written a lot of "mumbo jumbo" to try and prove something that cannot be proved, because it is just not there.
In this aspect, I "take my hat off" towards the Roman Catholic Church, because it is honest enough to admit its key role in the substitution of Sunday in place of Sabbath, and that that substitution was based on the authority of Roman Catholic Church, and not on Scripture.

 

[deu58]

Hi Bright candle

deu58:

It seems that you mention the writings of Ellen G. White more than Cliff or myself. Note, that Cliff and I mention only the Bible as the basis of our faith. Let me put it this way, deu5, if God felt it was important enough to write the Ten Commandments in stone (including the Sabbath) would it not makes sense that if anyone of those commandments was to be changed that God would make it very clear so as to there being no doubt in anyone's mind that that the 1st day is now the Sabbath, not the 7th day. But, we know from the Bible, that Jesus, nor the Apostles said any such thing. Yes, they say that the law of Moses (written on paper) was done away with, but no where does it say that the Ten Commandments have been done away with or changed! You and others have written a lot of "mumbo jumbo" to try and prove something that cannot be proved, because it is just not there.
In this aspect, I "take my hat off" towards the Roman Catholic Church because it is honest enough to admit its key role in the substitution of Sunday in place of Sabbath, as being based on the authority of Roman Catholic Church, and not based on Scripture.

Oh I know The SDA's would rather not let the mad granny out of the attic,
At least not until you have somebody well enough indoctrinated and then you will only reveal the things about her you really want them to know, Which is exactly why I bring her out,

Your Sabbath doctrine is not rooted in the bible

Early Writings Experiance and Views, Pg 43

I saw that the present test on the Sabbath could not come until the mediation of Jesus in the holy place was finished and He had passed within the second veil; therefore Christians who fell asleep before the door was opened into the most holy, when the midnight cry was
43
finished, at the seventh month, 1844, and who had not kept the true Sabbath, now rest in hope; for they had not the light and the test on the Sabbath which we now have since that door was opened.

Now right here in plain English your Prophetess says there was no sabbath test before 1844 , No body knew or beleived it was a test until your prophetess received this special light, If she had not received this special light then nobody would ever have known about it because it is not in the Bible to find!!!

Right up until this time it was just fine to worship on Sunday or any other day, At least according to the prophetess because before her vision no body knew about it and it was just fine to worship on sunday,

So yes bright candle rest assured any where I see the SDA smoke screen in their attempts to promote the Gospel according to Ellen G White I will set up a fan and blow away the smoke so they can see where your doctrines really have their roots,

yours in Christ
deu 58