God's Order of Salvation

[Dan1988]

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Ok does the moon reflect the suns light or produce its own light.

The moon is a dead sandy and rocky heavenly body, the answer is obvious. There is no light in dead objects, just as there in no light in natural man.

 

[d taylor]

The moon is a dead sandy and rocky heavenly body, the answer is obvious. There is no light in dead objects, just as there in no light in natural man.

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So if you have God given faith why do you not believe God's word. Which states the moon is a created light.

So much for your theology.

 

[Dan1988]

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Oh and you never make mistakes. Jesus plainly states He never knew them, showing they were never believers

That's right they were among the vast majority of false professors, who claimed to be Christians, but they were actually the Devils children.

I don't believe anyone's profession of faith, I have to look at their lives to see if they are living as believers. anyone can call themselves a Christian, but that means nothing.

 

[All Becomes New]

It tells them that, to confirm that their blood is on their hands.

Absurd.

 

[Dan1988]

Sure is.



False. Prove it. Different Christians have different giftings. This is not all even Stephen and the Bible is against such notions.



Name one verse that says all Christians are predestined before the foundation fo the world.

John 15:16

You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.

I can give you a truck load of verses to bury your Arminian gospel in the truth of the gospel, that's if you actually want to know the truth. Sadly most Christians hate the truth.

 

[Dan1988]

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So if you have God given faith why do you not believe God's word. Which states the moon is a created light.

So much for your theology.

The bible doesn't say any such foolish thing

 

[Dan1988]

Absurd.

I know it's absurd to you, but it's Gods Word and you just prove my point that most Christians hate Gods Word.

 

[All Becomes New]

John 15:16

You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.

I can give you a truck load of verses to bury your Arminian gospel in the truth of the gospel, that's if you actually want to know the truth. Sadly most Christians hate the truth.

1) I am not an Arminian, friend.
2) Who is Jesus speaking to in John 15:16? Is He speaking to all believers to ever exist or is he speaking to his Apostles?

I know it's absurd to you, but it's Gods Word and you just prove my point that most Christians hate Gods Word.

I have a different perspective then you so I hate God's Word? Unless I agree with you I hate God's Word?

I was saying you can't make that case exegetically. It is inserted into the text. It does not say that anywhere.

 

[d taylor]

The bible doesn't say any such foolish thing

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Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also.


To Him who made great lights,
For His mercy endures forever—
The sun to rule by day,
For His mercy endures forever;
The moon and stars to rule by night,
For His mercy endures forever.

 

[Richard T]

I'm sure you saw many making a profession of faith and walking down the isle to make their profession public. But nobody knows how many, if any were genuine. Judas Iscariot made a public profession of faith but he is a devil. God is not fooled by anyone who makes an outward profession of faith but men can be fooled by them.

Only God knows whom He has chosen to save, we can't know for sure, so that's why my Church has a list of very strict criteria, which everyone who applies for membership must meet or their application is rejected. The applicant must demonstrate that they are living a life that shows their faith is real. If their lifestyle, doesn't match what their confession then they won't be accepted as a member.

Yes, it is hard to know exactly what the follow up when you have over 100K at a single crusade meeting. I know they did their best even bringing in local churches to help with follow up. Billy Graham's largest had 1.1 million in South Korea with 75k coming to the Lord. Still being born again happens in an instant, though some might be under conviction longer. I got saved at a nazarene bible school as a child. I raised my hand with no outside pressure. The school was just one week. While I learned very little after that, when I was 20 God took control. I am thinking that in the interim God was still looking out for me. I hope it is the same with all new converts that have little knowledge of what to do next.

 

[Rescued One]

That's right, we never find Jesus selling His Spirit like a consumer product, as the prosperity preaches claim He did. He always said if you believe in Me, meaning if they already believe in Him, but our prosperity friends would understand this as an offer of salvation which they can accept or reject.

Many people think that they are Christians, but if Christ's Spirit isn't dwelling in them, they never become new creatures. Why do people think they can give themselves His Spirit? “He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ” (Phil. 1:6).

 

[Dan1988]

1) I am not an Arminian, friend.
2) Who is Jesus speaking to in John 15:16? Is He speaking to all believers to ever exist or is he speaking to his Apostles?



I have a different perspective then you so I hate God's Word? Unless I agree with you I hate God's Word?

I was saying you can't make that case exegetically. It is inserted into the text. It does not say that anywhere.

You are either believe salvation is of God from start to finish, (reformed theology) or you believe the Arminian gospel, which teaches that salvation is a joint effort between God and man. So man takes 50% of the credit and that gives him something to boast about.

There is no third option regarding salvation, every Christian holds to one of these two gospel interpretations.

The Apostles were born dead with the same sin nature that you and I were born with. Jesus called Peter "Satan" so you can see they were just as desperate and helpless as we are for God to save them. For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. And there are none who seek after God, there are none righteous, no not one.

So what Jesus said to the Apostles in John 15:16 applies to everyone who's names are written in Gods book, from the beginning of time to the end of time. Nobody choses to be saved, neither can they chose, because they are dead. God must first quicken the dead man to life, and give him the gift of grace and faith before he can believe and repent.

I'm not asking you to agree with me. I'm saying that Jesus didn't leave any room for debate in what He said about being chosen and predestined for salvation.

 

[Dan1988]

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Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also.


To Him who made great lights,
For His mercy endures forever—
The sun to rule by day,
For His mercy endures forever;
The moon and stars to rule by night,
For His mercy endures forever.

Sorry I couldn't find the part that confirms your theory that the moon produces it's on light. Do you know why I couldn't find it ???.... You guessed it, because it doesn't exist.

The saints of old knew the moon reflects the suns light, but from their perspective the moon was giving off light. It's not rocket science

 

[Rescued One]

I know it's absurd to you, but it's Gods Word and you just prove my point that most Christians hate Gods Word.

Are they actually saved or are they immature?

Why don't they believe Philippians 1:6?

 

[Rescued One]

@Dan1988
Eastern Orthodox cross
(It differs from Roman Catholic cross)

 

[Dan1988]

Yes, it is hard to know exactly what the follow up when you have over 100K at a single crusade meeting. I know they did their best even bringing in local churches to help with follow up. Billy Graham's largest had 1.1 million in South Korea with 75k coming to the Lord. Still being born again happens in an instant, though some might be under conviction longer. I got saved at a nazarene bible school as a child. I raised my hand with no outside pressure. The school was just one week. While I learned very little after that, when I was 20 God took control. I am thinking that in the interim God was still looking out for me. I hope it is the same with all new converts that have little knowledge of what to do next.

I've always kept away from crowds and crusades, because Jesus spoke of a narrow path with very few on it. The bible describes conversion as being a mysterious and invisible work of the Holy Spirit, who speaks to us in a still small voice.

The evidence for a genuine conversion is a changed life, and not just walking down the isle and repeating someone's prayer.
We know some experience a radical conversion, during a near death experience or some other terrible crisis which forces them to put their trust in the Lord. But these are the exception, most of us undergo a progressive conversion, with a lot of backsliding.

I'm not sure if you believe that faith is a gift from God, or if it's something the individual produces within himself and exercises it to claim Gods promise.

 

[Dan1988]

Many people think that they are Christians, but if Christ's Spirit isn't dwelling in them, they never become new creatures. Why do people think they can give themselves His Spirit? “He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ” (Phil. 1:6).

Absolutely true, Jesus said "I am the truth", so only those who are indwelt by His Holy Spirit have the truth in them. Most Christians approach the gospel with preconceived expectations.
When they come across doctrines like predestination, election and Gods sovereignty over all things including who is saved and who is left in their sin, they don't like it because it takes the choice away from them and disempowers them.

 

[Dan1988]

Are they actually saved or are they immature?

Why don't they believe Philippians 1:6?

We don't know who God elected to save before He created the world, so I would never venture to pronounce anyone as unsaved, just because they believe in a false gospel. I think most born again believers, believed in a false gospel at some stage in their lives.
We are all at different stages of the race, and our minds are renewed daily and we understand more as we mature.

 

[d taylor]

Sorry I couldn't find the part that confirms your theory that the moon produces it's on light. Do you know why I couldn't find it ???.... You guessed it, because it doesn't exist.

The saints of old knew the moon reflects the suns light, but from their perspective the moon was giving off light. It's not rocket science

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Well you failed that part of your God given faith. As the verse plainly states God created two great lights. The verse does not say God created a great light and a great light reflector. And if you doubt God was speaking about the moon in Genesis 1, Psalms 136 states the moon is a great light.

Need another verse, the moon will not give its light
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

I bet you do not even believe the stars will fall to earth, like God states will happen in The Bible

 

[d taylor]

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Another example where faith is not a special God given faith. Is that Peter began to lose faith while walking on the water. If it was a special God given faith, he would have not lost faith and began to sink.