God's Order of Salvation

[d taylor]

Nope. Seperate group of people. Not the Ephesians as it says in 1:13 "In Him you also." Paul is speaking of the Apostles in 1:3-12.

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I see now why you have problems Ephesians 1:1 plainly states To the saints (a saint is anyone who has believed).

Where you get apostles from is beyond me.

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,
To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus:
Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Verse 13 is saying after the Ephesians believed they also trusted in the sealing of The Holy Spirit and that they will receive an inheritance. The sealing of The Holy Spirit is the believers guarantee from God.

 

[All Becomes New]

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I see now why you have problems Ephesians 1:1 plainly states To the saints (a saint is anyone who has believed).

Where you get apostles from is beyond me.

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,
To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus:
Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Verse 13 is saying after the Ephesians believed they also trusted in the sealing of The Holy Spirit and that they will receive an inheritance. The sealing of The Holy Spirit is the believers guarantee from God.

You don't understand my argument. Paul says literally the same thing in Romans 1:5, 8.

 

[d taylor]

You don't understand my argument. Paul says literally the same thing in Romans 1:5, 8.

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Well i guess our exchange has come to a stopping point.

 

[All Becomes New]

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Well i guess our exchange has come to a stopping point.

Seems that way.

 

[Rescued One]

With all due respect, I must disagree with your view again. It's all well and good to say the unbelievers didn't believe in Jesus because they were expecting a war lord to give them an earthly kingdom, and not a heavenly kingdom.

Be that as it may, the underlying cause of their disbelief was their carnal sin nature. No carnal natural man can believe spiritual things, because they are spiritually discerned and they are foolishness to the natural man.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

We can't apply this biblical description of "faith" to that of those you described, who fashioned a messiah to overthrow Rome. The biblical faith is described as an "assurance", it's not wishful thinking as that of the natural man (unbeliever). True faith doesn't have any doubt that God will fulfill His promise.

If any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

[Dan1988]

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No i do not agree, the gift is salvation, Romans chapters 5 and 6 show that it is eternal life salvation that is the free gift.

Eternal life in paradise is the actual prize, but you don't get to claim this prize unless you first receive the gift of grace and faith

 

[Dan1988]

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Now, it is coming to the surface. So you will say believers can lose their eternal life salvation.

So the standard calvinist position, if a person stops believing they were never a true believer to began with.

In other words the faith definition of faith, you believe in is defined as faith=obedience.

So if one, as you say truly believes they will remain obedient their whole life.

So to you belief/faith is not the conviction that God's promise is true. But that God gives you obedience or faith as you would say. So you will be obedient till the end of your life, so anyone who falls away. Like the 2nd and 3rd soils you say were never true believers.

Which is not Biblically supported.

I never said believers can lose their salvation, that's what your Arminian gospel teaches, but it can't be supported by scripture.
The bible says that, those who fall away were never true believers to begin with. They simply made a false profession of faith.

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

As you can see, the verse confirms that those who fall away were never true believers to begin with.

The gospel message is that those of us who receive the gift of grace and faith, remain in the faith for the rest of our lives because the Holy Spirit leads us. The only way we can fall away is if the Holy Spirit breaks His promise and throws us under the bus, which you know is impossible because God can't break His promise, He's not a liar.

 

[Dan1988]

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Matthew 24:24 is speaking about believing Jews. The Jews are God's chosen people or God's elect people.

That's not true, because the Jews don't have any special privileges. Who ever taught you that lied to you and i would advise you to stay away from them.

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

As you can see, the Jews arer not Gods chosen people after all, that is a false teaching which many false professors teach. It's the blind leading the blind, both fall into a ditch.

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Matthew 24:24 is speaking about believing Jews. The Jews are God's chosen people or God's elect people.

 

[All Becomes New]

I never said believers can lose their salvation, that's what your Arminian gospel teaches, but it can't be supported by scripture.
The bible says that, those who fall away were never true believers to begin with. They simply made a false profession of faith.

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

As you can see, the verse confirms that those who fall away were never true believers to begin with.

The gospel message is that those of us who receive the gift of grace and faith, remain in the faith for the rest of our lives because the Holy Spirit leads us. The only way we can fall away is if the Holy Spirit breaks His promise and throws us under the bus, which you know is impossible because God can't break His promise, He's not a liar.

Why does the Bible warn unbelievers they are not saved?

 

[Dan1988]

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If you have God given faith, why do you not perfectly understand all of The Bible.

You haven't found a single error in my theology, but I have had to correct every single point you tried to make. So you should rephrase your comment to reflect the truth of the matter.

 

[d taylor]

That's not true, because the Jews don't have any special privileges. Who ever taught you that lied to you and i would advise you to stay away from them.

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

As you can see, the Jews arer not Gods chosen people after all, that is a false teaching which many false professors teach. It's the blind leading the blind, both fall into a ditch.

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Matthew 24 is during the tribulation. very obviously we do not agree. So i do not continue to waste time on after making excellent points and pointing out your theological errors, so nothing else for me to say.

 

[d taylor]

I never said believers can lose their salvation, that's what your Arminian gospel teaches, but it can't be supported by scripture.
The bible says that, those who fall away were never true believers to begin with. They simply made a false profession of faith.

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

As you can see, the verse confirms that those who fall away were never true believers to begin with.

The gospel message is that those of us who receive the gift of grace and faith, remain in the faith for the rest of our lives because the Holy Spirit leads us. The only way we can fall away is if the Holy Spirit breaks His promise and throws us under the bus, which you know is impossible because God can't break His promise, He's not a liar.

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Again you are wrong, clearly not arminian, but obviously Free Grace: Grace Evangelical Society

 

[d taylor]

You haven't found a single error in my theology, but I have had to correct every single point you tried to make. So you should rephrase your comment to reflect the truth of the matter.

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Ok does the moon reflect the suns light or produce its own light.

 

[Dan1988]

Not all Christians are predestined. Only those who have a special calling on their life.

That's not true, because there's only one type of Christian and that is an (elect Saint of God). Sure the vast majority of those calling themselves are hell bound false professors. Only those who God chose before He created the world and wrote our names in His book are the elect.

The bible is very clear about this fact, it says many Christians will come to the Lord on Judgement day and say Lord Lord, haven't we done all these things in your Name, but He will say to them, "depart from Me into the everlasting fire, for I never knew you". That is what awaits the vast majority of Christians.

 

[d taylor]

That's not true, because there's only one type of Christian and that is an (elect Saint of God). Sure the vast majority of those calling themselves are hell bound false professors. Only those who God chose before He created the world and wrote our names in His book are the elect.

The bible is very clear about this fact, it says many Christians will come to the Lord on Judgement day and say Lord Lord, haven't we done all these things in your Name, but He will say to them, "depart from Me into the everlasting fire, for I never knew you". That is what awaits the vast majority of Christians.

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Oh and you never make mistakes. Jesus plainly states He never knew them, showing they were never believers

 

[All Becomes New]

That's not true,

Sure is.

because there's only one type of Christian

False. Prove it. Different Christians have different giftings. This is not all even Stephen and the Bible is against such notions.

Only those who God chose before He created the world and wrote our names in His book are the elect.

Name one verse that says all Christians are predestined before the foundation fo the world.

 

[Dan1988]

I saw the fruits of both Osborn personally and Bonnke's impact in Africa as I was in the same nation when he held a crusade. Jesus accepted all who came. I sure am glad no one refused water to the Ethiopian. I admit too that some charismatic types are off the hook. Part of the reason I believe as i do too is that when you see God reacting to fasting on several lives almost immediately, then the correlation is undeniable. I respect your beliefs though. It is between you and God and pray he blesses your efforts.

I'm sure you saw many making a profession of faith and walking down the isle to make their profession public. But nobody knows how many, if any were genuine. Judas Iscariot made a public profession of faith but he is a devil. God is not fooled by anyone who makes an outward profession of faith but men can be fooled by them.

Only God knows whom He has chosen to save, we can't know for sure, so that's why my Church has a list of very strict criteria, which everyone who applies for membership must meet or their application is rejected. The applicant must demonstrate that they are living a life that shows their faith is real. If their lifestyle, doesn't match what their confession then they won't be accepted as a member.

 

[Dan1988]

If any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

That's right, we never find Jesus selling His Spirit like a consumer product, as the prosperity preaches claim He did. He always said if you believe in Me, meaning if they already believe in Him, but our prosperity friends would understand this as an offer of salvation which they can accept or reject.

 

[Dan1988]

Why does the Bible warn unbelievers they are not saved?

It tells them that, to confirm that their blood is on their hands. They heard the gospel and they rejected the free offer of salvation. Nobody is cast into hell, because they weren't elected to receive the free gift f salvation. They are cast into hell because they lived their entire lives in sin and rebellion against God.

 

[Dan1988]

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Again you are wrong, clearly not arminian, but obviously Free Grace: Grace Evangelical Society

The Grace Evangelical Society is in denial of who they are, so it's a sad society made of of closet Arminians.