God's Eternal Law; what does it entail?

[Landon Caeli]

I was in a discussion in another thread about whether it was right to offer a gesture of love to Russia, for peace purposes, and I responded that without *remorse* for the sins committed against Ukraine, it would go against the Eternal Law to reward them for their sins.

...I was wondering if I'm on the right track or not in thinking that *all* sins require remorse before forgiveness can be granted, not only from God, but from people, and I'd like to discuss whether or not this notion is grafted into the mind as an Eternal Law of God.


Here is a good reference for researching the topic of Eternal Law:
SUMMA THEOLOGIAE: The eternal law (Prima Secundae Partis, Q. 93)

 

[Landon Caeli]

Please note, that the "Law" most people are familiar with, is what Catholics refer to as Divine Law, which is the scriptures... God's Eternal Law is a different law:

"Augustine says (De Vera Relig. xxx): "We see a law above our minds, which is called truth." But the law which is above our minds is the eternal law. Therefore truth is the eternal law. But the idea of truth is not the same as the idea of a type. Therefore the eternal law is not the same as the sovereign type."

 

[royal priest]

I was in a discussion in another thread about whether it was right to offer a gesture of love to Russia, for peace purposes, and I responded that without *remorse* for the sins committed against Ukraine, it would go against the Eternal Law to reward them for their sins.

...I was wondering if I'm on the right track or not in thinking that *all* sins require remorse before forgiveness can be granted, not only from God, but from people, and I'd like to discuss whether or not this notion is grafted into the mind as an Eternal Law of God.


Here is a good reference for researching the topic of Eternal Law:
SUMMA THEOLOGIAE: The eternal law (Prima Secundae Partis, Q. 93)

From the perspective of a secular world, Putin would have to embrace globalism.
From God's perspective, Putin would have to embrace Him.

 

[Landon Caeli]

From the perspective of a secular world, Putin would have to embrace globalism.
From God's perspective, Putin would have to embrace Him.

...And for Christendom?

I would say a reversal of his takeover. And that would show a sign of *remorse* for the sins being committed, where reparations could then take place. Until then, forgiveness cannot be offered IMO.

 

[Landon Caeli]

I think Putin should be excommunicated from the Orthodox Churches as well, until he paves the way for reparations.

...There is no way Putin should be receiving the Holy Eucharist at this point.

 

[royal priest]

...And for Christendom?

I would say a reversal of his takeover. And that would show a sign of *remorse* for the sins being committed, where reparations could then take place. Until then, forgiveness cannot be offered IMO.

The church's role is to prepare believers for the Kingdom of God (true observers of the Eternal Law.) Unless and until God God makes Putin a believer, we ought to view his remorse as pretense. The world has its own standard of 'law' and will judge his repentance on that basis, but the church should not rest praying for Putin until he's turned not merely away from sin, but whole-heartedly unto God.
2 Corinthians 7:10
godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.

 

[zippy2006]

I was in a discussion in another thread about whether it was right to offer a gesture of love to Russia, for peace purposes, and I responded that without *remorse* for the sins committed against Ukraine, it would go against the Eternal Law to reward them for their sins.

...I was wondering if I'm on the right track or not in thinking that *all* sins require remorse before forgiveness can be granted, not only from God, but from people, and I'd like to discuss whether or not this notion is grafted into the mind as an Eternal Law of God.

The first thing I would want to say is that whether or not forgiveness presupposes repentance, love does not presuppose repentance or forgiveness. Peace may or may not depending on how one understands it.

(You have four realities here: forgiveness, repentance, love, and peace)

 

[Landon Caeli]

The first thing I would want to say is that whether or not forgiveness presupposes repentance, love does not presuppose repentance or forgiveness. Peace may or may not depending on how one understands it.

(You have four realities here: forgiveness, repentance, love, and peace)

Yes, the Agape kind of love. It's unconditional.

...But in this world, that kind of love can't exist for Putin. Can it?

Afterall, justice is important too.

 

[zippy2006]

Yes, the Agape kind of love. It's unconditional.

...But in this world, that kind of love can't exist for Putin. Can it?

One-directional love is really a kind of well-wishing. I wish Putin well. I wish Russia well. I have a love for them.

We would say that one should love Putin while rejecting or "hating" his sin. But to hate Putin himself is not Christian. "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you."

 

[Landon Caeli]

One-directional love is really a kind of well-wishing. I wish Putin well. I wish Russia well. I have a love for them.

We would say that one should love Putin while rejecting or "hating" his sin. But to hate Putin himself is not Christian. "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you."

But you don't "forgive" Putin, do you?

 

[zippy2006]

But you don't "forgive" Putin, do you?

I tend to think that one must repent before they can be forgiven.

 

[royal priest]

I tend to think that one must repent before they can be forgiven.

Yes. Otherwise, how could we not hold an offender accountable if they are ready and willing to commit the same act?

 

[zippy2006]

Yes. Otherwise, how could we not hold an offender accountable if they are ready and willing to commit the same act?

On my view even if one repents and is forgiven, they still must pay at least part of the debt they have incurred. For example, we would say that when someone commits a grave offense they must do more than say they are sorry; they must also make amends for what they did.

So I would want to hold even a repentant offender accountable for their offense, and I would say that the offender who is truly repentant should be eager to make amends for what they did.

 

[Mark Quayle]

I was in a discussion in another thread about whether it was right to offer a gesture of love to Russia, for peace purposes, and I responded that without *remorse* for the sins committed against Ukraine, it would go against the Eternal Law to reward them for their sins.

...I was wondering if I'm on the right track or not in thinking that *all* sins require remorse before forgiveness can be granted, not only from God, but from people, and I'd like to discuss whether or not this notion is grafted into the mind as an Eternal Law of God.


Here is a good reference for researching the topic of Eternal Law:
SUMMA THEOLOGIAE: The eternal law (Prima Secundae Partis, Q. 93)

There is a lot of evidence that while repentance is necessary for forgiveness, it does not necessarily precede it.

 

[Landon Caeli]

There is a lot of evidence that while repentance is necessary for forgiveness, it does not necessarily precede it.

I think I see what you mean... That if someone is forgiven, they may repent afterwards.

...As if mercy initiates repentance. Interesting!

 

[Landon Caeli]

...That's what God did for us, before we were even born.

It goes to show how meaningless time really is in regards to eternal truth.

 

[Mark Quayle]

I think I see what you mean... That if someone is forgiven, they may repent afterwards.

...As if mercy initiates it. Interesting!

My father was a Koiné Greek master of some note, who said that the construction of 1 John 1:9 more than suggests the following, somewhat awkward translation: "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to have [already] forgiven us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." This principle may well speak to the very meaning of the Gospel and to the subject of regeneration.

 

[Landon Caeli]

My father was a Koiné Greek master of some note, who said that the construction of 1 John 1:9 more than suggests the following, somewhat awkward translation: "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to have [already] forgiven us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." This principle may well speak to the very meaning of the Gospel and to the subject of regeneration.

Fascinating!

 

[fhansen]

The first thing I would want to say is that whether or not forgiveness presupposes repentance, love does not presuppose repentance or forgiveness. Peace may or may not depending on how one understands it.

(You have four realities here: forgiveness, repentance, love, and peace)

I think love ultimately demands justice because love and injustice, or sin, are incompatible, mutually exclusive. Sin harms neighbor and offends God while love is the opposite of that. So forgiveness, repentance, peace, all flow from love, from willing the good of the other. Love is patient and tolerant but ultimately all good things including justice are actually subsets of love. JMO.

 

[fhansen]

I think I see what you mean... That if someone is forgiven, they may repent afterwards.

...As if mercy initiates repentance. Interesting!

Yes!-we love Him because He first loved us. And His purpose is to bring all humankind into that same love.