God's Eternal Law; what does it entail?

[JimR-OCDS]

“’Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and
your neighbor as yourself."

This is the sum of the Ten Commandments.

Anything beyond this, is humans making their own commandments to follow

 

[Mark Quayle]

I think I see what you mean... That if someone is forgiven, they may repent afterwards.

...As if mercy initiates repentance. Interesting!

You may have found, like I have, a more severe mercy (nod to CS Lewis) than was comfortable sometimes. When you have done something wrong, for which you expected and feared maybe even life-changing repercussions, but the infinite power and purity and justice of God instead was merciful, and even covered your offense, you have run into a different kind of fear of God. THIS fear is partly the realization that you are entirely in God's hands, for him to do with you as he pleases. He owes you nothing, and you owe him everything. You now have no standing on your own.

I could have handled the punishment, even punishment unto death, but not this mercy! To realize that I exist at his pleasure, my time is borrowed, and I am not the center of my existence, is both terrifying, and a relief, assurance that my life no longer depends on my production, but on God. I cannot earn mercy. God owns me. And he is not tame. But he is good.

Not to say that I don't decide to repent, but here I find that repentance is already on me, upon his mercy. God did this.

 

[zippy2006]

I think love ultimately demands justice because love and injustice, or sin, are incompatible, mutually exclusive. Sin harms neighbor and offends God while love is the opposite of that. So forgiveness, repentance, peace, all flow from love, from willing the good of the other. Love is patient and tolerant but ultimately all good things including justice are actually subsets of love. JMO.

I don't see why you think love and sin are incompatible. Do you think that because sin offends God, God can't love sinners?

Yes!-we love Him because He first loved us. And His purpose is to bring all humankind into that same love.

Exactly. He loved us "While we were yet sinners" (Romans 5:8). If love and sin were incompatible then that would be impossible.

 

[fhansen]

I don't see why you think love and sin are incompatible. Do you think that because sin offends God, God can't love sinners?



Exactly. He loved us "While we were yet sinners" (Romans 5:8). If love and sin were incompatible then that would be impossible.

If love and sin were compatible then sin would not offend God and Jesus would've had no reason to come and take away the sins of the world. God loves us despite our sin, and so desires to save us all from the sin that caused/causes our death. He's simply patient and will bring His creation into sinless perfection, presumably not fully until the next life. Ultimately sin/evil will be done away with and love will reign supreme.

The reason that "love fulills the law" is because love exlcudes sin by its nature and vice versa: sin, particularly mortal sin even though all sin tends towards this, opposes and destroys love in us as the catechism teaches. Sin is to harm ones neighbior whereas love is to desire the good for them. Etc.

Creation, nature, is corrupted by sin. This is an anamoly, outside of God's will even as He allows evil to play out its hand now, for a time, as humans experiment with the autonomy from God that our ancestor Adam introduced into our world. That autonomy, that break, is the essence of the original sin from which all other sins then flows.

 

[zippy2006]

If love and sin were compatible then sin would not offend God and Jesus would've had no reason to come and take away the sins of the world. God loves us despite our sin, and so desires to save us all from the sin that caused/causes our death. He's simply patient and will bring His creation into sinless perfection, presumably not fully until the next life. Ultimately sin/evil will be done away with and love will reign supreme.

The reason that "love fulills the law" is because love exlcudes sin by its nature and vice versa: sin, particularly mortal sin even though all sin tends towards this, opposes and destroys love in us as the catechism teaches. Sin is to harm ones neighbior whereas love is to desire the good for them. Etc.

Creation, nature, is corrupted by sin. This is an anamoly, outside of God's will even as He allows evil to play out its hand now, for a time, as humans experiment with the autonomy from God that our ancestor Adam introduced into our world. That autonomy, that break, is the essence of the original sin from which all other sins then flows.

The OP is about whether forgiveness presupposes repentance, i.e. whether one must repent before they can be forgiven.

The related question we are talking about is whether love presupposes repentance, i.e. whether one must repent before they can be loved.

Are you claiming that one must repent before they can be loved?

 

[fhansen]

The OP is about whether forgiveness presupposes repentance, i.e. whether one must repent before they can be forgiven.

The related question we are talking about is whether love presupposes repentance, i.e. whether one must repent before they can be loved.

Are you claiming that one must repent before they can be loved?

of course not. He loves us first regardless. But that does not make love compatible with sin-which is why He seeks to lift us out of sin. Love would never leave us there.

 

[zippy2006]

of course not. He loves us first regardless. But that does not make love compatible with sin-which is why He seeks to lift us out of sin. Love would never leave us there.

It seems to me that it is compatible in the relevant sense, namely that God loves unrepentant sinners, and neither their sin nor their lack of repentance prevents him from loving them.

The OP was wondering if he could forgive the unrepentant sinner. Maybe he can't, but I think it is true and important to note that he can love the unrepentant sinner. (Note that in the OP forgiveness was seen as a means of love)

Now it is true that to love an unrepentant sinner is not to condone their sin. We <love the sinner while hating their sin>. Still, love is compatible with sinners.

 

[fhansen]

It seems to me that it is compatible in the relevant sense, namely that God loves unrepentant sinners, and neither their sin nor their lack of repentance prevents him from loving them.

Yes, ok, love simply loves, overlooks faults, forgives, sacrifices, etc. Love is bigger than sin, and love can overcome sin. And sorry if I misunderstood your post.