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God's Commandments include the TEN Commandments in the NT

BobRyan

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And lets not forget the NEW Covenant - itself!! (From Jer 31:31-33)

And still "the same" in Hebrews 8 --

Heb 8
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—
9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”
13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete
 
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klutedavid

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Hello Bob.

Your reply started with the following quotation.
Rom 2
13 for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts
Did you notice what your quotation is stating Bob, that Gentiles 'do not have the law'.

The Gentiles were never under the law and never will be. Gentiles as the name implies are not Jewish, hence Gentiles
were not the recipients of the law given at Mt Sinai. Where did you get the idea that Gentiles were under the law?
 
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bbbbbbb

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BABerean2

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If you mean to imply that the old and new covenants are identical, my question to you is why do you ignore most of the commandments in the old covenant?

BobRyan may have meant to imply that, but I would say the opposite.

The New Covenant is not the same as the Sinai covenant of bondage, from Galatians chapter 4.

Take a look at the link below to see my opinion of the matter.


http://www.truthorfables.com/menu/subjectsa-1a.html

.
 
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bbbbbbb

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bugkiller

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Thank you for the excellent response. Unfortunately, I doubt that Bob Ryan will address my question.
I agree. It would certainly depart from the historical record of this forum. His purpose is only to evangelize those not of his persuasion.

bugkiller
 
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ToBeLoved

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Yup.... I agree 9/10ths of the 10 are essentially valid for Christians (and covered by the Law of Love).
:amen:


I have to keep your quote. This is the cleanest, shortest best definition I have heard yet.
 
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ToBeLoved

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Wrong again - He never quotes the Ex 20:6 commandment not to take God's name in vain.



The Sabbath commandment is quoted from multiple times in the NT in Acts, in Hebrews 4 and in Rev 14:7 - but the 3rd commandment never quoted from at all in the NT.

Which is ok because there is no such fluff-rule in the Bible as "whatever is not repeated is to be deleted".

And of course - for all eternity after the cross "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

No wonder the Gospel is preached to gentiles "every Sabbath" in Acts 18:1-5

So then the point remains - your made-up-rule about deleting whatever is not often-enough-repeated does not even work for the command to not take God's name in vain. It is demonstratably flawed. It is a made-up rule that does not pass the sola-scriptura test.



I just did. I showed your argument is based on a flawed premise.

And I show the 4th commandment quoted in the NT.

And I have shown that for "all eternity after the cross" -- all mankind keeps the Sabbath -- in the New Earth when All mankind are saints.

"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God and their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

" that it is EVER commanded of ANYONE " after the cross --

for all eternity after the cross "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

"there REMAINS therefore a SABBATH rest for the people of God" Heb 4

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

of which the 5th commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2




God says that rebellion against His commandments is not loving God -- read 1 John 5:1-3

Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.





Exodus 20:7 is never quoted in the NT nor do we find "remember to keep the 3rd commandment"

Heb 4 "There REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God". Another chapter where the 4th commandment is quoted.

Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" and the only commandment quoted in that chapter is the 4th commandment in vs 7.

The point remains.

in Christ,

Bob
Don't you have an open thread about aliens, the Bible and Satan in relation to Rev 12?

I can't believe a word you write about the 10 Commandments, sorry.

Your theology is a mess when you start saying that God created aliens to decieve the world through the Anti-Christ and believe it, as though it were fact and going to happen.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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There is a rather long discussion on Israel and Judah of the flesh...those who have not come to Jesus.
That is probably why their enemies surround them w/o help from Yahweh?........

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/national-israel-is-cursed-forever.7459656/

Mk 11:
11And Jesus entered into Jerusalem, and into the temple: and when he had looked round about upon all things, and now the eventide was come, he went out unto Bethany with the twelve.
12And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry:
13And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.
14 And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter forever. And his disciples heard it.


The nation of Israel at one time in world history was representive of Gods covenant people here on earth and had many spiritual advantages over and above all other nations of the world..rom 3:

1What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.


The oracles of God, meaning in short, important spiritual matters of the True God..

rom 9:
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;


Much had been given to them as a nation in order to preserve her seperated from all other nations, in order for the messiah, to be born under Gods Law, to die the accursed for the seed of abraham..

Now Israels history as the special covenant people of God is riddled with unfaithfulness to God and apostacy, however, God tolerated her exisitnce up unto the promised seed was born, lived and died under the Law..

After the death of christ, of which national Israel was the chief culprit in bringing about, God Judged that nation as unworthy of eternal life acts 13:

45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.


This is here a final confirmation of God rejecting and leaving israel, the etnic jews under His Judgement..

This is confirmed too in matt 21:
33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.


israel as a nation , ethnic wise, had lost her distinction and spiritual privileges of being that nation that represented the kingdom of God on earth, and that privilege was being granted to a nation, the gentile church, which would bear that precious spiritual fruit unto God..This is too expressed in rom 11:

15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

They have been cast away..and this casting away is final, as far as nationally is concerned, but not individually..but national Israel who, because of her favoured position, should have bore fruit, because of the outward advantages, which the fig tree indicated, but did not bear fruit, God cursed that nation, and that forever..

14 And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it.

National Israel will never again have spiritual significance in this world, all those advantages are forever forfieted, but this was always part of Gods eternal plan and purpose for that people..

matt 21:
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
It was the Lords doings, and as the wise man says:

National Israel's rejection and curse is final.[/quote]


.
 
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bugkiller

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There is a rather long discussion on Israel and Judah of the flesh...those who have not come to Jesus.
That is probably why their enemies surround them w/o help from Yahweh?........

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/national-israel-is-cursed-forever.7459656/

Mk 11:
11And Jesus entered into Jerusalem, and into the temple: and when he had looked round about upon all things, and now the eventide was come, he went out unto Bethany with the twelve.
12And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry:
13And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.
14 And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter forever. And his disciples heard it.


The nation of Israel at one time in world history was representive of Gods covenant people here on earth and had many spiritual advantages over and above all other nations of the world..rom 3:

1What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.


The oracles of God, meaning in short, important spiritual matters of the True God..

rom 9:
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;


Much had been given to them as a nation in order to preserve her seperated from all other nations, in order for the messiah, to be born under Gods Law, to die the accursed for the seed of abraham..

Now Israels history as the special covenant people of God is riddled with unfaithfulness to God and apostacy, however, God tolerated her exisitnce up unto the promised seed was born, lived and died under the Law..

After the death of christ, of which national Israel was the chief culprit in bringing about, God Judged that nation as unworthy of eternal life acts 13:

45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.


This is here a final confirmation of God rejecting and leaving israel, the etnic jews under His Judgement..

This is confirmed too in matt 21:
33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.


israel as a nation , ethnic wise, had lost her distinction and spiritual privileges of being that nation that represented the kingdom of God on earth, and that privilege was being granted to a nation, the gentile church, which would bear that precious spiritual fruit unto God..This is too expressed in rom 11:

15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

They have been cast away..and this casting away is final, as far as nationally is concerned, but not individually..but national Israel who, because of her favoured position, should have bore fruit, because of the outward advantages, which the fig tree indicated, but did not bear fruit, God cursed that nation, and that forever..

14 And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it.

National Israel will never again have spiritual significance in this world, all those advantages are forever forfieted, but this was always part of Gods eternal plan and purpose for that people..

matt 21:
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
It was the Lords doings, and as the wise man says:

National Israel's rejection and curse is final.
Excellent post lloj. I hope many reread it very slowly.

bugkiller
 
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BobRyan

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Don't you have an open thread about aliens, the Bible and Satan in relation to Rev 12?

Indeed - Satan was not born in New Jersey -- he comes from some place else.

Same with popular ghost stories - those evil spirits as 1 Sam 28 points out - are in fact demons.

I can't believe a word you write about the 10 Commandments, sorry.

The ease with which you choose to ignore sola-scriptura discussion on Bible truths that you reject... noted.

Your theology is a mess when you start saying that God created aliens to decieve the world

You are not quoting me ... you are quoting "you". No wonder you reject your statement.

through the Anti-Christ and believe it, as though it were fact and going to happen.

1 John 2 affirms that antichrist is coming.

2Thess 2 says it this way --

9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, 10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

Your suggestion that we mock and dismissed the Bible - noted... but not taken seriously.
 
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BobRyan

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Heb 8 (Jer 31:31-33)

ccasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,


“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God
,
And they shall be My people.
11 “And they shall not teach everyone his fellow citizen,
And everyone his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’
For all will know Me,
From the least to the greatest of them.
12 “For I will be merciful to their iniquities,
And I will remember their sins no more.”


====================================

Excellent point - Jeremiah and the Apostle Paul!!
 
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BobRyan

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D.L. Moody writes in favor of God's TEN Commandments as do many other Bible scholars and pastors - even pro-sunday ones.


http://www.fbinstitute.com/moody/The_TenCommandments_Text.html

BY THE
DWIGHT L. MOODY
The Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:2-17
.

The Fourth Commandment


Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.

[FONT=&quot]THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place.
"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)
It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was
- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai.
How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes;

------------------------------------------

Excellent point -- D.L. Moody!
 
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BobRyan

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Baptist Confession of Faith Section 19
Section 19:

C.H. Spurgeon's edition of the "Baptist Confession of Faith"
-- CH Spurgeon

The Perpetuity of the Law of God


Very great mistakes have been made about the law. Not long ago there were those about us who affirmed that the law is utterly abrogated and abolished, and they openly taught that believers were not bound to make the moral law the rule of their lives. What would have been sin in other men they counted to be no sin in themselves. From such Antinomianism as that may God deliver us. We are not under the law as the method of salvation, but we delight to see the law in the hand of Christ, and desire to obey the Lord in all things. Others have been met with who have taught that Jesus mitigated and softened down the law, and they have in effect said that the perfect law of God was too hard for imperfect beings, and therefore God has given us a milder and easier rule. These tread dangerously upon the verge of terrible error, although we believe that they are little aware of it.

Section 19 of the "Baptist Confession of Faith"

. The Law of God

  • God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.

  • The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the TEN COMMANDMENTS, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.

  • Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.

  • To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.

The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it

Excellent point - C.H. Spurgeon
 
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ToBeLoved

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And lets not forget the NEW Covenant - itself!! (From Jer 31:31-33)

And still "the same" in Hebrews 8 --

Heb 8
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—
9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”
13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete
This passage agrees with my point.

Heb 8
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—
9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”
13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete

He is saying the Old Covenant that He made with their fathers will be NOT be the New Covenant. And He has made the first covenant obsolete.

Good verse.
 
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BobRyan

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This passage agrees with my point.

Heb 8
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—
9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”
13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete

He is saying the Old Covenant that He made with their fathers will be NOT be the New Covenant. And He has made the first covenant obsolete.

Good verse.

It shows that both are made with Israel.

It shows that the NEW Covenant has the LAW of God - known to Jeremiah - written on the heart and mind.

There was indeed a national covenant at Sinai - that ends about the time when the Jewish nation rejects Christ.

But as even the pro-sunday scholarship points out - the Ten Commandments are the moral law of God "made for MANKIND" Mark 2:27 just as was the Sabbath.
 
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ToBeLoved

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Indeed - Satan was not born in New Jersey -- he comes from some place else.

Same with popular ghost stories - those evil spirits as 1 Sam 28 points out - are in fact demons.

The ease with which you choose to ignore sola-scriptura discussion on Bible truths that you reject... noted.
I am sola-scriptura 100%.

Now, the fact is I do not believe in aliens. The Bible doesn't support it.

Demons have no form, aliens would have form.

Now explain how demons are aliens, ect...
 
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