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Godfire - a Word Study

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Lazarus Short, Jan 2, 2020.

  1. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Charlie, Charlie, Charlie...
    Were all the prophets in a cult? Don't be ridiculous.
    Does God want you to have a relationship with him, or a book?
    I'll let @Shrewd Manager @Lazarus Short @FineLinen and @Hillsage answer for themselves.

    Hey guys, Charlie wants to know if you can hear the audible voice of God?
    I think he wants to prove that we are all in a cult. - lol
    Even though hearing God's voice has little to do with the greater hope.
    Or maybe it has EVERYTHING to do with it. - lol

    John 10:27
    My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

    Revelation 3:20
    Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.

    Acts 9:4
    He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”

    Acts 11:7
    Then I heard a voice telling me, ‘Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.’
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2020
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  2. Lazarus Short

    Lazarus Short Well-Known Member

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    Speaking for myself, I have been talked to by a Being I took to be God, simply because He lined me out about my life, forgave me my sins, and spoke in a Voice I did not hear with my ears. Besides that, everything He said came to pass.
     
  3. Charlie24

    Charlie24 Newbie

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    I was just wondering because it seems Steven has.

    Thanks for being honest.
     
  4. Lazarus Short

    Lazarus Short Well-Known Member

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    You are most welcome!
     
  5. Hillsage

    Hillsage One 4 Him & Him 4 all Supporter

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    Oh no Steve, I haven't even read 'back' to see what I'm getting in to. But my testimony may not go to go well for Charlie. Barring a 'human possession', the only time I ever heard the audible voice of a spirit it wasn't even from God, it was from Satan (or one of his minions???). :eek: So if he is poor at spiritual discernment, he may just think that proves your cult suspicion, at least for me. :( Oh well here it is, the rest of you are on your own. :p

    It was in 1972 and it was not long after the night that my girlfriend and I were both baptized by the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues. I had an awareness of the reality of the supernatural and spiritual realm from that night like I'd never known before. A few months after that experience and a non vocal demonic manifestation as well as a demonic dream, my girlfriend who is now my wife, asked me to go with her and her folks to meet her grandparents at their farm in Oklahoma 7 hours away. We couldn't leave until her dad got off work on Friday at 6 PM. So by the time we got there it was a little after 2 AM. The last mile to their farm was 'spooky' dark with lots of trees for this western Kansas boy. I distinctly remember feeling fearful as I imagined walking alone on that road. My 'hindsight admonition' is never open a door for fear. We woke the grandparents up, made introductions and called off conversation until morning. After being shown where I was to sleep I got undressed and went to bed.

    I had been laying there a while when it began to happen. It all started with after hearing a supernatural medley starting with a gonging clock striking 3 AM but which kept gonging for 15-20 times. With each gong getting louder than the last. Then suddenly the wind went from zero to a roaring gale outside. Then I started hearing words coming from the wall behind the headboard. But with the gonging clock and the roaring wind I couldn't understand anything being said, other than one single word....so I turned my head for my 'better ear' and that was when two hands grabbed both sides of my face and started pulling me toward the wall. Well that was the scardest I had ever been in my life to this day. I started crying out to God and naming the name of Jesus and pleading his blood. Anything to get free. And I'm pretty sure that at least once or twice, in this minutes long ordeal, that I was so scared that I actually said "I cast you out JESUS in the name of Jesus", during those heart pounding few minutes. Finally I said the name of Jesus one more time and the hands let go, the clock stopped gonging and the wind died to nothing. I reached over into my boots and pulled out my wristwatch and the time was 3:05. It was years later before I learned of the significance of 3 AM.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2020
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  6. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    Yeah, it's in the context, but the denominations that usually point to the context for the answer tend to miss that one. Funny world.
     
  7. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Now, that's a point I didn't really address with Charlie. I hear God's voice, and I think you do to, but it is not an audible (out loud) heard with the ears, voice. It's something you hear in your head. Like a thought. And it can be loud or soft. I am very familiar with God's "loud" voice telling me to do something. Typically just a brief command, like, "Talk to that person."

    @Charlie24 @Shrewd Manager @Lazarus Short @FineLinen

    John 5:19
    Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
  8. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    Are you sure? Biblehub's telling me it's there in Gen 1:31:
    Strong's Hebrew: 3966. מְאֹד (meod) -- muchness, force, abundance
    Makes sense, because God's gifts are always in abundance.

    The other big point I forgot to mention is in relation to priorities and incentives. If your main aim is to avoid damnation (for yourself and others), then it's primarily self-interest, or at least to lead others to 'save themselves' by obtaining fire insurance (just complete the form by ticking 'Yes' to the questions 'Are you a hopeless sinner?' and 'Do you repent and accept Christ into your heart?'

    It's total works salvation and self-reliance, even though they'll strenuously deny it, the forumla being: God will send you to hell unless you do X&Y.
     
  9. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    Wherever God is, there will be life. The river comes from the throne and pours into the Dead Sea bringing everything to life, according to Ez 47:1-10. The Pearly Gates are open 24 7 according to Rev 21:24.

    So if you don't at least hope for the salvation of all mankind, what attitude do you take to the 'doomed'? Are you a hard-liner, Charlie? Do you think 'You've been warned, but you ignored it so too bad for you buddy.' Because that would be unrighteous and uncharitable judgment brother.
     
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  10. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

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    We're having too much fun rubbing salt into the wounds.

    But I don't see Jesus as teaching that to 'have peace' in any way limits the degree or intensity of eg constructive criticism represented by the 'salted with fire' metaphor. He's just saying at the end of the day, make your peace. He persists on this theme throughout the Gospels, which is essentially don't leave things to fester and turn into grudges and bad blood.

    So it's apply good relationship management practice now or God will need to fix it later in Gehenna - and that will go harder on us.
     
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  11. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    These are some points worth discussing. I'm still trying to sort through this myself.

    The Calvinists claim that a free will decision to follow Christ is salvation by works. As if receiving the gift of salvation is somehow a work that "earns" salvation. Which seems to align with what you are saying here. Just to be clear, I absolutely deplore Calvinism. Not a huge fan of Arminianism either.

    What is the "good" news of the gospel if there is no personal benefit in receiving it. It seems that if you remove the "self-interest", it becomes only news, not "good" news.

    As if to say, "Jesus paid the price of your sin debt, just wanted you to know that." --- "Okay, thanks. Should we go to the store?"

    It seems that in order to receive the benefit (self-interest) of the gospel message, one needs to do more than just hear about it. We need to act upon it. However, that act is one of receiving, not a work done to earn it. If someone hands us a wrapped gift, we must do the "work" of unwrapping it in order to receive it. But that "work" did not earn the gift, nor does it change the nature of the gift.

    It seems that in receiving the gift of salvation, there is something to gain and something we avoid. Namely, the consequence of not receiving the gift. The traditional creed calls it hell, and claims it is everlasting separation from God. Are we in the greater hope doing anything more than repackaging the consequences, or merely redefining them?

    I don't see how we can steer around this. I'll open this up to the whole group, even Charlie. @FineLinen @Hillsage @Lazarus Short and @Charlie24
     
  12. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Dear Charles: You are a typical Baptist. Believe me, I know exactly where you dwell in the vast avenues of the Living God. You are content to dwell in your wee avenue, but alas you will be circling your wagon in never ending circles.

    There are many dwelling places in Father's House, or places of abode. For me, it is not sufficient to be a disciple, as glorious as it is, I desire to rest my head with the John company.

    In that company of saints are those who will not rest until they follow the Lamb in the withersoever. They go a little further into the Archegos & Prodromos, never resting until He has brought them to where He is.

    Platuno = To make broad/ enlarged.

    From platos & palenta (breadth & street)
     
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  13. Charlie24

    Charlie24 Newbie

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    SM, I am afraid you are much confused about our Father's salvation.

    The apostle Paul tells us that salvation is a matter of the heart.

    Rom. 10:9-10
    That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
    For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

    The apostle John tells us love casts out fear.

    1John 4:18
    There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

    When our heart believes unto righteousness, as Paul says, fear is cast out in love, as John says.

    At salvation the heart is so filled with the love for God, there is no fear, there can be no fear. The fear only exists without God, or when we have lost sight of God.
     
  14. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Yes. The "church" is a dead end street.
    There is a whole vast world of boulevards, parkways and freeways to explore.
     
  15. Charlie24

    Charlie24 Newbie

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    Unless you are a member of the one and only True Church.

    This church is not Baptist, it's not Catholic, it's not Methodist, etc. etc.

    The members of the one and only church have been washed in the Blood of the Lamb, they follow the Lamb wherever He goes and wherever He leads.

    This church has members from the 4 corners of the earth. All the nations of the world are represented in this church, the One and Only True Church.
     
  16. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Dear Saint: There are indeed vast avenues within our Father's House to explore. The vast majority are content to dwell in the experience to which they are accustomed, with zero desire to progress one step further into territory that requires an expansion of faith and a fresh invasion of the Living God.

    Churchianity tends to live in the "limited", His overcomers cast aside limited to cast themselves upon the Unlimited One, the Prince-Leader of Reconciliation.
     
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  17. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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  18. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    I mostly agree. I had the word "church" in quotes. Meaning the human organization of sectarian religion.

    Saint Steven said:
    Yes. The "church" is a dead end street.
    There is a whole vast world of boulevards, parkways and freeways to explore.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I was thinking about you today and had another one of those pesky images in my head. This time it was a hot air balloon. Have you ever ridden in one?

    I was gifted a ticket to ride in one many years ago. I finally contacted the place to set a date for my ride. It was amazing. I was so glad I did it. Except for the sound of the heater flaming up to create hot air, it is completely silent. They cut loose of the sandbags holding it down and the balloon ascends to height rapidly. Wow. Then the wind takes over. The scenery was beautiful over the river valley. And it was so quiet that you could hear people talking and dogs barking at the homes below.

    I think many in the "church" are in the balloon basket, but they refuse to release the sandbags and trust the wind (Spirit) to carry them along. They are suspicious of anything they can't control. Ultimately, it is a trust issue.

    John 3:7-8
    You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

    2 Peter 1:21
    For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
     
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  19. Hillsage

    Hillsage One 4 Him & Him 4 all Supporter

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    It was winter and the streets were snow packed. I was heading home and coming up to a red light. I was on the inside lane and was going to turn left at that intersection. A car was already stopped at the light in the outside lane. All of a sudden the Holy Spirit said...NOT AUDIBLY to my physical ears; "Stop now!", which I did as fast as I could. And when I came to a stop I was just over a car length back from the normal stopping point, which was right next to the car in the outside lane. I was feeling kind of dumb since there was a car coming from behind and he stopped right behind me. I just assumed that he was wondering what the idiot in front of him was doing. All of a sudden a car coming from the left and trying to make a right turn lost traction and slid clear across the intersection coming to a stop right next to the car in front of me....but in the outside lane. And the idiot who was driving too fast was bumper to bumper looking at me and me at him. I could have been sandwiched between. But thankfully, my God...still speaks. But, not 'just' to the ears on my head or 'just' through written words on a page. I backed up and said "Thank you Lord." as I drove safely away. I wish I was listening with 'those ears' more often. I also wonder how many Christians, are taken out by the enemy? An enemy that the bible says comes to "rob, kill and destroy". I wonder how many similar events could have been avoided had those Christians been listening spiritually. Instead of thinking they would have been saved from a wreck by 'scriptural rote'.

    When Jesus said; "He who has ears to hear-let him hear." Do you think He was talking about the ears on the head of everyone in the crowd? Charlie I've never found a verse to confirm many of the spoken "rehma/words" I've heard by inspiration from the mouth of the Holy Spirit to me as: Deep calleth unto deep... PSA 42:7
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
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  20. Hillsage

    Hillsage One 4 Him & Him 4 all Supporter

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    Nor should you be a huge fan of EITHER. Because that fight has gone on for centuries. And a 1,000 different NT translations has never made a declared winner yet.

    Not me, I teach and preach a position which takes the two 1/2 truths of Calvinism and Armenianism to preach whole truth wherein 'both fit'.....IMO, of course. When the bible was written "rightly dividing the word of truth" was easier. Because back then they understood there were different tongues pertaining to scriptures which didn't elaborate 'the obvious' in context. The same was true for salvation scriptures. When you think there is only 'one' salvation, you will never apply right "dividing of the truth" when it's pertaining to the 'non specified' salvation scriptures. Scriptures which may be pertaining to your spirit or your soul or your body.

    That's the 'conceptual reason' for my ~red~ signature line below.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
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