God told me to preach against sin until sin is exceedingly sinful again

[Andrew]

You should be preaching on God's mercy, grace and righteousness thru Jesus the Christ. When these are brought out in their pure unadulterated forms, people will see how sinful they are.

If you focus on sin, then you only make your congregation more sin-conscious instead of Son-conscious. And the danger here is that you create in them what the Bible calls an "evil" conscience -- one where people are inward looking -- always looking at themselves, whether they have sinned or done well today. in the end, self-righteousness for those who are able to not sin so much, and misery for those who fail.

 

[joevberry3]

You should be preaching on God's mercy, grace and righteousness thru Jesus the Christ. When these are brought out in their pure unadulterated forms, people will see how sinful they are.

If you focus on sin, then you only make your congregation more sin-conscious instead of Son-conscious. And the danger here is that you create in them what the Bible calls an "evil" conscience -- one where people are inward looking -- always looking at themselves, whether they have sinned or done well today. in the end, self-righteousness for those who are able to not sin so much, and misery for those who fail.

I never said I dont preach on God's mercy or grace did I? I do, but we are also to preach against sin are we not?
Also, GOD told me to continue preaching against sin until it becomes exceedingly sinful to man again. I listen to what God says, and yes i know it is of God. The devil doesnt want us preaching against sin in any way shape or form.
That was God's answer to me. I have been in serious prayer about this. I have had several people tell me to bust hell wide open and people persecute me for preaching. I went into serious fasting and prayer. I wanted to know if I needed to change my style of preaching.
In fact, this was confirmed by another Pastor friend of mine who called me on Friday and asked had I been praying about this very thing. How did he know I had been praying about this?
God Bless,
Joe

 

[Godz Marine]

Joe,

That would be you? No Greg, your mistaken brother! I havent even spoken with you in about a week i think, so NO this thread has NOTHING to do with you.

First, allow me to apologize for assuming I was the one who had approached you concerning your attitude concerning those of the OSAS belief. I didn't know that someone else had; apparently there is more than "one."

But, the thread you just started after replying to this one is about me.

No, you assume it is. I started the thread on love and on false teachers simply because I want to know if I am in error on how I have interpreted the scriptures. You have simply assumed the post is about you. Everything I posted was in a generallity form of questioning, never even implying I was referencing anyone in particular, especially you. I apologize.

He didnt tell me til it becomes exceedingly sinful to HIM, but to MAN!

Again, I apologize. You never said it was till sin was exceedingly sinful to man and not God. How is sin exceedingly sinful to man? If it becomes exceedingly sinful in the eyes of men, I mean there have become degrees of sin, isn't it judgment which grades it? Forgive me for being so simple.

Also Greg it seems you are now condeming preaching against sin, is that true? [

No, just saying that preaching against sin, and you have not implied you preach anything else but against sin, you leave the implication you tell people they are heading for hell because of the sin they are living in and not telling them how to get out of sin and to avoid it from thereafter. I am sorry I cannot read what you do not say.

Brother, you need to repent and quit thinking every post is about you.

I cannot find where I have said or even implied that every post is about me, or even one single post. If you can show me where I have done this I will repent openly just I have supposedly assumed that every post is about me.

Also, you said i was ridiculing OSAS believers. Care to show the link to where I did this?

You can begin reading here; http://www.christianforums.com/t98167

We both know you started that new thread cause of me, now didnt you? Tell the truth.

I knew you would feel that the things I mentioned in the False Teacher thread were about you. However I made my intentions clear as to why I started the thread. I am not as near concerned with your beliefs as I am my own and if I can be shown biblically where what I believe a false teacher to be is wrong then I want to change it. I have no reason to lie or hide behind deception. I do not beat around the bush, so to speak, concerning anything. I am always up front. If I wanted that post to be about you I would have made it so. You have simply assumed it is about you.

I am sorry that we cannot see eye to eye on what you say God has called you to do. In fact, on my part it is not what God has called you to do but how you perceive you are to do it.

 

[Godz Marine]

Joe,

Define, "Preaching against sin" as you say we are to do. Give us an example please.

 

[joevberry3]

Joe,



First, allow me to apologize for assuming I was the one who had approached you concerning your attitude concerning those of the OSAS belief. I didn't know that someone else had; apparently there is more than "one."



No, you assume it is. I started the thread on love and on false teachers simply because I want to know if I am in error on how I have interpreted the scriptures. You have simply assumed the post is about you. Everything I posted was in a generallity form of questioning, never even implying I was referencing anyone in particular, especially you. I apologize.



Again, I apologize. You never said it was till sin was exceedingly sinful to man and not God. How is sin exceedingly sinful to man? If it becomes exceedingly sinful in the eyes of men, I mean there have become degrees of sin, isn't it judgment which grades it? Forgive me for being so simple.



No, just saying that preaching against sin, and you have not implied you preach anything else but against sin, you leave the implication you tell people they are heading for hell because of the sin they are living in and not telling them how to get out of sin and to avoid it from thereafter. I am sorry I cannot read what you do not say.



I cannot find where I have said or even implied that every post is about me, or even one single post. If you can show me where I have done this I will repent openly just I have supposedly assumed that every post is about me.



You can begin reading here; http://www.christianforums.com/t98167




I knew you would feel that the things I mentioned in the False Teacher thread were about you. However I made my intentions clear as to why I started the thread. I am not as near concerned with your beliefs as I am my own and if I can be shown biblically where what I believe a false teacher to be is wrong then I want to change it. I have no reason to lie or hide behind deception. I do not beat around the bush, so to speak, concerning anything. I am always up front. If I wanted that post to be about you I would have made it so. You have simply assumed it is about you.

I am sorry that we cannot see eye to eye on what you say God has called you to do. In fact, on my part it is not what God has called you to do but how you perceive you are to do it.

You just gave a link to OSAS. I havent "ridiculed" OSAS people like you say. So, since you have spoken against OSAS, its safe to assume you ridicule them too? Or are you held to a different standard than me?
God Bless,
Joe

 

[joevberry3]

Joe,

Define, "Preaching against sin" as you say we are to do. Give us an example please.

I will ask you a question in answer. Are we "NOT" to preach against sin? Please tell. If you can find anywhere biblically that we arent, i will apologize and quit.
Also, why the need for Preachers and Pastor's if we arent to preach against sin?
Proverbs 28:23 says "He that rebuketh a man shall afterwards find more favour than he that flattereth with the tongue."

Rebuke a man? Rebuke him for what? For sin.

God Bless,
Joe

 

[joevberry3]

By the way Greg. I apologize that you assume all i do is preach against OSAS. This isnt true. You are the only one that believed i meant thats all i preached about. If anyone visits my website, he/she will see a wide variety of topics. From Love, Salvation, Hell, Trinity, Abiding, The Crucifixion, How we should love each other, and more. So, you will see OSAS isnt all i teach about. In fact, i probably preach more on Salvation, Mercy, and Heaven than most people you know.
Since i have had visions of Heaven-its usually a favorite to preach and teach about.
If all knew what Heaven will be like, i would believe most would give their heart to Jesus Christ.
God Bless,
Joe

 

[joevberry3]

By the way, this thread isnt about OSAS, but sin.

Joe

 

[LynneClomina]

a couple thoughts....

have you read the book "the grace and truth paradox" but randy alcorn? really good, easy read, but VERY heart changing. speak the TRUTH, in LOVE. let your words be seasoned with grace. etc.

i have the book "evil of evils" by jeremiah burroughs, i believe he was a puritan writer some hundreds of years ago.... it's about the "exceeding sinfulness of sin" (i think that's how it's phrased)... about how suffering is better than being guilty of sin. about how ppl dont realize how SINFUL sin really IS!!! sin is just a light and fluffy concept to so many ppl. i havent read the book yet, just scanned it, but it looks SOO good. i just have to wade through all that archaic language....

i have heard of TRUTH and LOVE as being two wings of a bird.... the bird cant fly without BOTH of them. we fail when we neglect either of them. i too am often told i "preach hard", "lack grace", etc. becuase i focus on the TRUTH but tend to be harsh.... i have lacked grace. i have grown in that area a lot i think. but now i understand that we need BOTH to be effective. MOSTLY it's JUST love that's preached, whereas ppl like me tent to sway to the opposite side.... YES, speaking the truth IS love, but ONLY if its done IN love. a person in sin, who is made aware of their sin, and HEARS about the love and grace of God but doesnt SEE it in action, can get very discouraged. wheras ppl who are acutely aware of the love of God, but doenst understand why they needed to be SAVED from that relatively minor affliction known as "sin", will often live outside the will of God, becuase it's not such a big thing to them, this thing the bible calls "sin". "oh, yeah, lying is a sin, but it's not that bad, God loves me anyways."

 

[joevberry3]

a couple thoughts....

have you read the book "the grace and truth paradox" but randy alcorn? really good, easy read, but VERY heart changing. speak the TRUTH, in LOVE. let your words be seasoned with grace. etc.

i have the book "evil of evils" by jeremiah burroughs, i believe he was a puritan writer some hundreds of years ago.... it's about the "exceeding sinfulness of sin" (i think that's how it's phrased)... about how suffering is better than being guilty of sin. about how ppl dont realize how SINFUL sin really IS!!! sin is just a light and fluffy concept to so many ppl. i havent read the book yet, just scanned it, but it looks SOO good. i just have to wade through all that archaic language....

i have heard of TRUTH and LOVE as being two wings of a bird.... the bird cant fly without BOTH of them. we fail when we neglect either of them. i too am often told i "preach hard", "lack grace", etc. becuase i focus on the TRUTH but tend to be harsh.... i have lacked grace. i have grown in that area a lot i think. but now i understand that we need BOTH to be effective. MOSTLY it's JUST love that's preached, whereas ppl like me tent to sway to the opposite side.... YES, speaking the truth IS love, but ONLY if its done IN love. a person in sin, who is made aware of their sin, and HEARS about the love and grace of God but doesnt SEE it in action, can get very discouraged. wheras ppl who are acutely aware of the love of God, but doenst understand why they needed to be SAVED from that relatively minor affliction known as "sin", will often live outside the will of God, becuase it's not such a big thing to them, this thing the bible calls "sin". "oh, yeah, lying is a sin, but it's not that bad, God loves me anyways."

I havent read that book yet, i will check it out.
I agree 100% with your post. I still thank God that someone loved me enough to preach against my sin.

God Bless,
Joe

 

[rooster]

The world around us is in rebellion against our God. The world's value system is in such a compromised state that many would not know wat sin is, or had borrowed systemetic ways from the world to rationalize our sins away.
Yes i think it is extremely important for people to know how exceedingly hateful sin is to the eyes of God and that we as christians are not only to know about sin and try to vere from sin but to abhor sin in all its forms and search for it for there might be much in our lives there is unholy but we do not realise because its easier to ignor them. Looking into yourself should hurt a little, if not a lot, but its all for the better. People should not just know that "yes, sin is bad, but its alright since God is merciful and his grace is sufficient" Yes God's grace and mercy is there for us, but it does not mean we should continue to have a compromised view of sin and moderate our speech to be "full" of grace and kindness yet refuse to speak against sin when we see or hear of it. Once we had become saved we are to become proactive against sin and not reactive.
Yes it is necessary for us as christians to stand up for the righteous ways and holy ways of our God any anything less would be a compromise.
A message on sin should be only uncomfortable to those who have things to hide and if the message on sin was to continue unabated, the person would squirm in his seat and get up to leave unless the message also contains the message that points him to God who wants to extend to him his boundless mercy.
Yes sin has to be exposed, taught about, dug out; its causes and roots examined, and what is God's method to resolving sin in his rebellious people.

 

[seekingsomething]

Sin is bad. We all know that it is sin that seperates us from our God and this is NEVER a good or excusable thing. However we are taught in the bible that God doesnt want us to simply follow some rules or his laws. He KNOWS before we do every sin we will commit, but he has chosen to put us right. It is through JUSTIFICATION THROUGH FAITH in Jesus Christ that God loves us.

Galations 2:21 'By saying these things I am not going against Gods grace. Just the opposite, if the law could make us right with God, then Christs death would be useless'
(new Century)

We should avoid sin at ALL costs and preaching and helping people with this is an amazing thing to do, ESPECIALLY if God himself has passed on this message. However, endless preaching about what we should and should not be doing is JUST as likely to push people away from our God. Yes we are NOT meant to sin and we are to become MORE christ like, but it is through mistakes healed with love that sinning can be stopped. Peace in Love. God bless x x x

 

[Godz Marine]

Joe,

By the way, this thread isnt about OSAS, but sin.

But yet in the thread that I had provided the link for you strongly lean towards and imply that those who hold to the OSAS belief are in the midst of sin.

You are the only one that believed i meant thats all i preached about.

True. I am the only one who said anything as such. But I am not the only one who said anything about love. I am not the only one who has said anything about "preaching against sin", especially if one is preaching to the believers.

Let this be known before all men:

I haven't tooted my own horn about the things I do for God. You claim to know me better than I know myself but you do not know me in the least nor the things I do for God. I tried to remain humble and attempted to answer your questions but you rarely would answer mine. I have presented scripture time and time again showing how one is to treat the Body of Christ yet you openly avoided them, attempting to negate scripture by applying your own definition of love.

When a post was made making distiction aboust a certian person (one) I admitted I was that one. Not in thinking that post was about me but for sake of clarification only. I never said we are not to preach and teach how one is to overcome and or avoid sin our lives yet you still imply that I do. I have done nothing more to you than Paul had done to Peter when Peter would shun the Gentile believers. I have never implied that you are a liar. I have never implied you say things you don't. I have said the things you mean and the things you originally say are at times different.


I am sorry that we do not see eye to eye on some of the things of God. As I have said before I am sure once we get to heaven and look back, we can laugh together about some of the things we held to as truth that were not. We all know in part and prophesy in part, not one knowing all.

If anything in all that has transpired between us has been in error scripturally I ask of your forgiveness. I also ask the forgiveness of anyone I may have offended in being scripturally in error. I simply realize that a house divided against itself cannot stand and as the Body of Christ we are only strong through unity for division has no strength. Division only leads to strife and within strife is every evil thing.

Joe, I will contend with you no longer concerning your methods.

 

[Svt4Him]

Ah, a second post against OSAS. I didn't realize this when I posted in the other thread. So I'm starting to see a pattern here Joe.

 

[kh77]

Sin is extremely broad in its scope and cover not just sins of commission and omission. We can sin not just in deed but also in thought. In addition, whatever that is not of faith is sin. I will say unequivocally none of us who are born again, in and of ourselves, can make it. Probably, that's why it takes a perfectly holy law to expose sin. For "in the law is the knowledge of sin" (Roman 3:20) And only Jesus could meet the mark.

Thank God for His grace and that we're not under law but of faith.

Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

 

[joevberry3]

Ah, a second post against OSAS. I didn't realize this when I posted in the other thread. So I'm starting to see a pattern here Joe.

This thread HAS NOTHING at all to do with OSAS. Greg threw that in there, not me.

God Bless,
Joe

 

[Swtsnshyn]

Joe,

Please define "preaching against sin". Also, it would help if you were able to give a short example to better clarify your definition.



God Bless!!
Dawn
Shining brightly for Jesus

 

[joevberry3]

Joe,

Please define "preaching against sin". Also, it would help if you were able to give a short example to better clarify your definition.



God Bless!!
Dawn
Shining brightly for Jesus

Hi Dawn. We are to warn people of their sins, especially those that are NOT saved.
We dont beat them over the head with their sins, but we do preach to them.
One verse that pretty much tells us to preach against sin is in Proverbs 28:23
"He that rebuketh a man shall afterwards find more favour than he that flattereth with the tongue."

We are to rebuke a man for sin. Once again, let me say we dont beat him over the head with it. In that case we will run him away from Christ.
But we do preach against sin.
Have you ever attended a church that "NEVER" preached against sin in any way, shape or form?

God Bless,
Joe

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Hi Dawn. We are to warn people of their sins, especially those that are NOT saved.
We dont beat them over the head with their sins, but we do preach to them.
One verse that pretty much tells us to preach against sin is in Proverbs 28:23
"He that rebuketh a man shall afterwards find more favour than he that flattereth with the tongue."

We are to rebuke a man for sin. Once again, let me say we dont beat him over the head with it. In that case we will run him away from Christ.
But we do preach against sin.
Have you ever attended a church that "NEVER" preached against sin in any way, shape or form?

God Bless,
Joe

What sin is it that you are preaching against? There is only 1 sin that sends man to hell. . .that would be the sin of rejecting Jesus as Savior. The other sins as listed in the word seperate us from fellowship with God. I don't believe that it means as a blood bought born again Child of God, that everytime I fall short, I'm going to hell unless I can repent before I die.

As blood washed, once was lost, but now I see saints, we are to submit to God and resist the devil. The problem is, a lot of Christians are not being taught the proper way of resistance. . . which is of course, submitting to God.

 

[joevberry3]

What sin is it that you are preaching against? There is only 1 sin that sends man to hell. . .that would be the sin of rejecting Jesus as Savior. The other sins as listed in the word seperate us from fellowship with God. I don't believe that it means as a blood bought born again Child of God, that everytime I fall short I'm going to hell unless I can repent before I die.

So, do you think we shouldnt preach against sin?

God Bless