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God knows the end from the beginning....or does He?
- Thread starter tall73
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question for all, cause I am little bit confused now, so Jesus had a human body, that we can agree upon, but did He also have a human spirit? and was His human body in any way affected by the sins of the forefathers?
IMO Mary was only a host, none of her genes passed on to Jesus, so even though He was fully human, he didnt have the inherited problems that we all have put up with... same goes for His spirit... I might be mistaken here, I never really thought a lot about the subject... but it would only make sense...
in regard to EGWs commentary, if Jesus had failed, eternal loss would be the consequence, consequence for whom? for Jesus? for all of us? Where does that put GOd's promises?
IMO Mary was only a host, none of her genes passed on to Jesus, so even though He was fully human, he didnt have the inherited problems that we all have put up with... same goes for His spirit... I might be mistaken here, I never really thought a lot about the subject... but it would only make sense...
in regard to EGWs commentary, if Jesus had failed, eternal loss would be the consequence, consequence for whom? for Jesus? for all of us? Where does that put GOd's promises?
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Both... you are filtering EGW's statement through your own disdain of her writings and not the spirit in which it was given to understand.
Which one of these statement is true...
It is 70 miles to my brothers house..
or
It is 24,800 miles to my brothers house...
All depends on how you look at it....
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Last statement before I get caught in the vortex...
It is almost beyond our uderstanding, this dichotomy, that Jesus wouldn't fail because of His perfect obedience but could have if He chose to... it's no different than the choice we are given every moment of every day. Obey God or obey self...
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so the whole risk thing was depending on His choice only... but wasnt that choice already made before He came to earth...?
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- Sep 23, 2005
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No they are not both true.
Either God promised it or He did not.
Do believe God's promises?
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The text is talking about how the wrong act of Adam was extended to all men....
....And how the righteous act of Christ cancelled it out bring the free gift of salvation to all.
....It does not mean you can't reject the free gift.
The interesting point about that text was WHO brought this free gift and was this free gift....
....Promised and assured to the world eons prior the world getting it by the very One promised to bring it.
Zech 9,9
Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and HAVING SALVATION; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass
Christ WAS salvation, He had it the very second He incarnated into the Blessed Virgin...
...He never lost it for a second - as Tall said, there was zero risk Christ would not suffer and die and save sinners.
...It was 100%.
Luke 2,
25And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.
26And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.
27And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,
28Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,
29Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:
30For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,
WHICH thou hast prepared before the face of all people
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- Sep 23, 2005
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Did you look at the verse before this?
Rom 5:17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
The gift came upon all men.
It only helps those who RECEIVE of grace and the free gift.
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exactly! this text is not saying God promises that everyone will be saved, it is a promise THAT everyone CAN be saved...
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God makes a promise for all but not all will receive it... does this make the promise void? Is it a conditional promise??
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It's a conditional promise depending on if a person is "in Christ" or "away from Christ"...
...The promise of God to provide Salvation was never conditional - it was 100% absolute.
...The promise of God to provide Salvation was never conditional - it was 100% absolute.
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- Sep 23, 2005
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The very thing that He said was that those who receive it would benefit. It was a description of what God did in contrast with what Adam did.
The text did not say God promised all men salvation. It said:
much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life
Now in the case of Jesus' carrying out the plan of salvation, did God ever say, "unless it doesn't happen". Or did He ever say it could fail?
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- Sep 23, 2005
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So Eastcoast, it appears you do not believe that God promised to bring about salvation through His Son. Are there any other promises of God you would like to discount so that Ellen White's statement about Jesus failing could be right?
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He didnt make a promise for all, He left the door open for all, it is up to the individual if they will go through that door... so yes, in a way its conditional but it would not be wise to use this one as proof that all of God's promises are conditional....
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Jesus was fully human but did not come in the form of sinful flesh the way we do. Jesus was perfect just like Adam was; free from the blight of sin, but not out of it's reach.
I agree that Mary was only a host, but I know some people in particular might have a problem with that. And what do you mean by Spirit? Do you believe you have an immortal immaterial spirit dwelling inside of your "fleshly shell"?
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I am not sure about that spirit thing... anyway, I dont care if some people have a problem with Mary as a host... everyone is entitled to have their own opinion though...
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- Sep 24, 2005
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To be honest I dont know and actually I cant really say that Mary was just the host, that is the first thing that seems plausible...
do you think part of Jesus' genes came from Mary?
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