God Doesn't Want Me To Know Him

[GoldenBoy89]

Well as I wasn't addressing your post or you, I have no idea what point you're talking about?

If you say the universe is so complex it must have been designed and created but then offer an even more complex being as the explanation, I have to ask where such a being could have come from. What designed and created it?

Assuming complex things necessarily need to be designed and created, of course.

 

[StanJ]

If you say the universe is so complex it must have been designed and created but then offer an even more complex being as the explanation, I have to ask where such a being could have come from. What designed and created it?
Assuming complex things necessarily need to be designed and created, of course.

God always existed and the thing that most people don't realize is that when he created the university also created time. A God that is that powerful to create the universe and to create time just IS. Nobody can know him unless they seek him. It's pretty much like trying to understand astronomy without ever having taken any courses on the matter.

 

[Locutus]

God always existed and the thing that most people don't realize is that when he created the university also created time. A God that is that powerful to create the universe and to create time just IS. Nobody can know him unless they seek him. It's pretty much like trying to understand astronomy without ever having taken any courses on the matter.

But you argued complexity demands purposeful creation. Is not your god complex?

 

[Locutus]

. Nobody can know him unless they seek him.

How does one 'seek him', please?

I dove into the bible (and church) with a clean palate, full neutral. I did not presuppose the god existed, nor did I presuppose the god didn't exist. I left myself entirely open to either possibility. Do you think that's a bad or dishonest approach to your god?

Also, if you do think it's the wrong approach, why do you do it with other religions?

 

[AGTG]

It's an incredibly manipulative thing to imply that God does not want you to know Him because God is not submitting Himself to you and your self-centered, prideful demands.

Especially when He actually did submit Himself for all of mankind when He died for the very manipulative, prideful sins of the world by dying on a cross so we can have access to Father God.

You're real problem is you don't recognize you've sinned against a holy God and will be held to an account eventually. When you recognize your need for a Savior, you will have the opportunity to meet God.

 

[Locutus]

The Spirit of God is in the binding force of the atom and the life in the cell and is present in the body but the natural mind limits the use of the power of it. The power is redirected through an impurity of mind and degenerates rather than regenerating.

Thanks, but that gives me zero information on how to find/identify it. Could you give me very specific details on what it is/where it is/what it's made of/how you identify it, etc? I wouldn't want to miss it, or mistake it for something else.

 

[StanJ]

But you argued complexity demands purposeful creation. Is not your god complex?

No, I argued that this universe with its complexity demands a creator. That is not the same thing.

 

[AGTG]

But doesn't God know that a demand of faith is simply unconvincing to me, and that no amount of appealing to what I am fairly convinced is essentially the same thing as gullibility will convince me to believe something? I'm essentially stuck - I'm not going to have faith, faith alone is never going to be convincing to me. I need something else. But more to the point, God knows this. He knows exactly what I need, even if I don't! So the fact that I don't believe indicates very clearly that God doesn't care. And if there is a literal hell, he clearly has no problems with me going there.



I don't believe in his gift of salvation. That's the problem. If God wanted me to believe, he'd know exactly what to do to get me to believe. He hasn't done this, so I'm left wondering whether this is because God doesn't care that I'm going to go to hell, or because he doesn't exist.



...But he still isn't willing to give me what I need to change my mind and make me believe in him? And is willing to send me to be tortured forever for not believing in him? That's a bizarre definition of love.

I, me, my. Apparently you seek to start a new religion wherein God worships you.

 

[Locutus]

It's an incredibly manipulative thing to imply that God does not want you to know Him because God is not submitting Himself to you and your self-centered, prideful demands.

Yes, we're the prideful and self-centred ones. Always trying to avoid falsehoods and accepting our own mortality and insignificance.

Not so those humble souls who merely require a personal relationship with creator of the universe, and are too special to die.

 

[Locutus]

No, I argued that this universe with its complexity demands a creator. That is not the same thing.

so your god is not complex, then?

is he less complex than his creations?

 

[Locutus]

I, me, my. Apparently you seek to start a new religion wherein God worships you.

"You're all going to die at some point, and stay dead. Just like a houseplant" isn't a very catchy jingle. I don't think he'll recruit many.

 

[AGTG]

Yes, we're the prideful and self-centred ones. Always trying to avoid falsehoods and accepting our own mortality and insignificance.

Not so those humble souls who merely require a personal relationship with creator of the universe, and are too special to die.

Avoiding falsehoods? Based upon your version of truth, of course.

 

[StanJ]

How does one 'seek him', please?
I dove into the bible (and church) with a clean palate, full neutral. I did not presuppose the god existed, nor did I presuppose the god didn't exist. I left myself entirely open to either possibility. Do you think that's a bad or dishonest approach to your god?
Also, if you do think it's the wrong approach, why do you do it with other religions?

Well I would say the first thing you would want to do is read what Hebrews 11:6 says. You can find that in the following link in many English translations; https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Hebrews 11:6

The Bible doesn't lead people to God, God leads people to his son Jesus and once they accept Jesus as their personal savior then he leads them by the Holy Spirit into his word and into the truth. That's the way it works not the way you tried.
When you know the truth do you keep on looking for other answers or do you stick with what you know is the truth?

 

[AGTG]

"You're all going to die at some point, and stay dead. Just like a houseplant" isn't a very catchy jingle. I don't think he'll recruit many.

Well, I suppose "neener, neener, neener" would be a fitting response to such a degraded dialogue.

My eternal life has already begun, by the way. And the only thing stopping anyone from embarking on that journey is pride. Humble yourself before God, and He will exalt you.

 

[StanJ]

Thanks, but that gives me zero information on how to find/identify it. Could you give me very specific details on what it is/where it is/what it's made of/how you identify it, etc? I wouldn't want to miss it, or mistake it for something else.

It's this type of flippancy that comes across quite obviously despite you not admitting it. You may think this is a game but in reality those who actually want you to understand like myself, don't look at it as a game, they look at it as the reality it is, and your future as an eternal living being is in jeopardy NOW, and unless you wake up to that reality the one you do wake up to will be so horrific it will pale in comparison to this life you now find yourself painfully walking through.

 

[StanJ]

"You're all going to die at some point, and stay dead. Just like a houseplant" isn't a very catchy jingle. I don't think he'll recruit many.

Seems you still lack the ability to comprehend what the issue is. Yes we are all going to die, there is no doubt about it. The point is that those who have received Jesus as their savior will not stay Dead Forever. They will be resurrected they will be made Immortal and they will live for eternity on the new Earth. Those who do not have Jesus as their savior will not experience the resurrection, will never be made immortal and will remain separated from God for all eternity knowing that they could have prevented it by simply being more in-tune with their inner spirit.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

God always existed and the thing that most people don't realize is that when he created the university also created time.

You say "when" he created the universe, he created time? How is there a "when" before time? Do you see the logical contradiction you've created in trying to explain his existence?

God always existed... for an eternity... then he suddenly decides to create a whole universe at a finite point in time, some 14 billion years ago. But he always existed before that.

Think about that for a bit.

A God that is that powerful to create the universe and to create time just IS.

I could just as easily say the universe, just is. It would mean virtually the same exact thing except the universe doesn't concern itself with who anyone sleeps with and doesn't demand anything of us or condemn anyone.

We also have good evidence the universe exists. Why go any further?

Nobody can know him unless they seek him. It's pretty much like trying to understand astronomy without ever having taken any courses on the matter.

And yet, he's the one who created and wishes to have a relationship with us. He created us for his purposes and yet hides himself and makes us go looking into the dark to find him and if you don't find him, there's something wrong with you and in fact, you deserve to be punished.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

It's this type of flippancy that comes across quite obviously despite you not admitting it. You may think this is a game but in reality those who actually want you to understand like myself, don't look at it as a game, they look at it as the reality it is, and your future as an eternal living being is in jeopardy NOW, and unless you wake up to that reality the one you do wake up to will be so horrific it will pale in comparison to this life you now find yourself painfully walking through.

Why would God put the future of someone else's eternal fate in your (or any other human's) hands?

Why not just directly engage us?

 

[AllanV]

Thanks, but that gives me zero information on how to find/identify it. Could you give me very specific details on what it is/where it is/what it's made of/how you identify it, etc? I wouldn't want to miss it, or mistake it for something else.

A magnetic force is an example. God covers Himself with light as with a garment. The full spectrum of light would be everything seen and unseen which is God's covering.

God's spirit manifested in a person would present attributes that were peaceful, gentle and a person who is perfect and Holy.
The fruit of the Spirit is Love, joy, peace, long suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith and without fear.

The scripture says add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control 4perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love.
The goal is Love.
Instead of bonding in the mind in the human way of stirring up hormonal emotional responses the interaction is pure in the sense the biology is separated from. Even if this occurs for a short time it is proof of the concept and understanding and reveals that immortality is possible.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

No, I argued that this universe with its complexity demands a creator. That is not the same thing.

Ok. A Creator with its complex psychology necessarily needs an explanation as well. How do you explain that?

Where do God's thoughts come from? Human thought comes from the human brain which you say demands a creator. Where do God's thoughts come from and how does that not demand its own creator?