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GOD CREATED EVIL, Period!

Zeena

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Aww hon!

Have you never had a loved one in desperate need from a touch from the Lord in their troubles? Have you nought met anyone trembling in fear over their present or their future, nor one so abused in their past that all they wanted to do was crawl back into their momma's womb, where it's cozy and warm, safe and sound? Have you never been there yourself? I know i have, many times. And not one of those 'times' did the Lord condemn me, but has, rather, comforted me with His wonderful Presence!

1 John 4:18a
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment.

.
 
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Everything(meaning everything) that God has created is good(HOLY), and NOTHING(self explainatory) is to be rejected when recieved with thanksgiving.

ALmighty is the author of good. Righteousness and Holiness. We were made man. In which case the Lord added a brain to control our vitali organs, but also our thought. When we ate of the forbidden fruit, our brain became thirsty for knowledge, and in that, evil, was to be found.

God does not create evil. ALthough many verses seem to point tothe fact that He does, but they are merely mistranlations where calamity is replace with evil.

He is incapable of fallibilty, and our faith is based off this perfection.

All is according to His purpose, although He has allowed individual the decision as to which roles they shall play.
 
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Zeena

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God doesn't need to hire a hitman MartyMonster.. And would He?

Hebrews 6:9-10
But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
 
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OzSpen

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ittarter,
I can enthusiastically endorse that conclusion, as long as you are not suggesting that the nature of the one true God, as demonstrated in Wisdom literature, is different from the nature of the one true God who manifests Himself in the life of Israel and the remainder of the OT.

I sincerely appreciate your making your points in a much clearer way. Thanks so much!

Sincerely, Spencer
 
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JagDragon

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God does not create evil. ALthough many verses seem to point tothe fact that He does, but they are merely mistranlations where calamity is replace with evil.

God created everything that is in existence.
Evil exists.
Ergo, God created evil.
 
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Zeena

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God created everything that is in existence.
Evil exists.
Ergo, God created evil.
God did not create evil, evil.. What He created was VERY GOOD, but the devil turned against his Master by his own choice, even as men do today, after the spirit of their father.

Thes 3:3:
But the Lord is faithful, who shall establish you, and guard you from the evil one.
 
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Zeena

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I think that's the entire point of the paper, to build bridges between people of opposite sides of the SAME coin!

God's Word to us contains BOTH perspectives.
 
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JagDragon

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God did not create evil, evil.. What He created was VERY GOOD, but the devil turned against his Master by his own choice, even as men do today, after the spirit of their father.

But God, in all his omnipotency, must have forseen that the Angel that was later to become the devil would bring evil into the world. Even before he created the Angel/Devil. So, in effect, he did create evil.
 
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Zeena

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But God, in all his omnipotency, must have forseen that the Angel that was later to become the devil would bring evil into the world. Even before he created the Angel/Devil. So, in effect, he did create evil.
No.

For we all know our children will rebel at one point, or another..

But we are not responsible for thier rebellion.
 
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JagDragon

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No.

For we all know our children will rebel at one point, or another..

But we are not responsible for thier rebellion.

But God created everything. There was not anything there before he created it. He is responsible for everything, because he created it all and he knew what would happen.

He is responsible for the rebellion of Angel-Satan.
He is responsible for the fact that we sin at all.

If you say he isn't, you are shooting down both his omnipotence and his omniscience at once.
 
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Zeena

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And if you say He is responsible for MY sins, in creating me thus, then He OWED it to me to come and be crucified, rather than the free-will offering of Love that it was..
 
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JagDragon

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And if you say He is responsible for MY sins, in creating me thus, then He OWED it to me to come and be crucified, rather than the free-will offering of Love that it was..

Yes, but why not circumvent the whole notion of creating sin and then sacrificing yourself to destroy it, and just create the universe without sin or evil?
 
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Zeena

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Yes? YES? YES?!?!

but why not circumvent the whole notion of creating sin and then sacrificing yourself to destroy it, and just create the universe without sin or evil?
WOW, so, you'd rather judge God than be held PERSONALLY accountable for your sins (which Jesus died for, YOUR sins, NOT HIS!-LOL!)? WOW, JUST WOW!
 
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JagDragon

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Yes? YES? YES?!?!
Sorry, wrong choice of word there. I agree with you, I am infinitely grateful for the gift of eternal life that Jesus has given me.

WOW, so, you'd rather judge God than be held PERSONALLY acountable for your sins? WOW, JUST WOW!

I never said anything of the kind. I was just speculating as to why God created sins and evil in the first place, rather than skipping the intermediate step and just create his chosen (predestined) people in heaven.
 
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Zeena

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Sorry, wrong choice of word there. I agree with you, I am infinitely grateful for the gift of eternal life that Jesus has given me.
Oh okay, WOOPS!

I never said anything of the kind. I was just speculating as to why God created sins and evil in the first place, rather than skipping the intermediate step and just create his chosen (predestined) people in heaven.
He didn't create sins and evil, and if you believe otherwise then you really are in that first category of men who judge God for creating them thus.

Rather, He created us to be the objects of His Affections (LOVE) in Christ Jesus.
And Love is a two way street, even as exemplified in the incarnation of Christ Jesus the Lord, Who LOVED His Father and submitted to Him through that LOVE.

Therefore, love requires choice to be LOVE!
It takes two to tango
 
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JagDragon

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He didn't create sins and evil, and if you believe otherwise then you really are in that first category of men who judge God for creating them thus.

I resent having an opinion and then being assigned to a category. I'm not "Judging" god, I'm just speculating on why he would choose to create us as sinful beings.


But how, if love requires choice to be, does that deal with the issue of predestination? Even before he created world+angels+people+sin+evil+satan, he knew who would follow him, and who would not. So why the proxy of an earthly life, sin, "free choice", when he knew who would end up in heaven and who would end up in hell?

It's been something I've been struggling to understand since a few weeks ago, when we had a bible study on the issue of predestination.
 
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Zeena

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I resent having an opinion and then being assigned to a category. I'm not "Judging" god, I'm just speculating on why he would choose to create us as sinful beings.
Then why assume He created us sinners, when He said we are 'very good'?

But how, if love requires choice to be, does that deal with the issue of predestination? Even before he created world+angels+people+sin+evil+satan, he knew who would follow him, and who would not.
There you go asserting God created sin again..

Please rethink your stance based upon knowledge, and not supposition;

Genesis 1:31
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

So why the proxy of an earthly life, sin, "free choice", when he knew who would end up in heaven and who would end up in hell?
I consider foreknowledge of the people of His choice [namely, Israel] to be predestination in every sense of the word.

It's been something I've been struggling to understand since a few weeks ago, when we had a bible study on the issue of predestination.
God always planned to have a people after His Name, but He didn't chose who that would be, rather, He left that choice to us.

Duet 30:19-20
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.
 
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JagDragon

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Then why assume He created us sinners, when He said we are 'very good'?

There you go asserting God created sin again..

Please rethink your stance based upon knowledge, and not supposition;

But he did create sin, otherwise it can't exist! Nothing existed before god, so everything that exists now he must have created, or known it was going to happen before he created it.

Suppose I make a robot to perform some trivial purpose, such as fetch my slippers for me in the morning. Then I program intelligence into it, and give it a choice between continuing to give me my slippers, or using its inbuilt laser beam to kill people, knowing full well that it will probably choose the second option. Have I created a killer robot, or just a slipper robot? Am I responsible for the deaths of people then?

Yes I know this is quite a silly example, but it is worth thinking about.

I consider foreknowledge of the people of His choice [namely, Israel] to be predestination in every sense of the word.
I'm not quite sure where you're going with this - you support the idea of predestination?

God always planned to have a people after His Name, but He didn't chose who that would be, rather, He left that choice to us.

Romans 8:29-30:
"For [those] whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover, [those] whom He predestined these He also called, whom He called these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified"

This doesn't seem like much of a choice to me, just looks like he picked out a selection of people to go to heaven.
 
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