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God’s Love Superior To The Sabbath Rest

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by Doveaman, Aug 20, 2017.

  1. Doveaman

    Doveaman Re-Created, Not Evolved.

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    Can anyone explain how the Levite priests were able to violate the Sabbath-day and yet were innocent of sin?

    "Haven't you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day and yet are innocent?'' (Matthew 12:5).

    The Levite priests working in the Jewish temple consistently violated the Sabbath-day every week and yet were innocent of sin.

    This proves that sin is not the transgression of the 10 commandments of the law, since the Sabbath-day rest was included in the 10 commandments of the law.

    The Levites priests were commanded to work on the Sabbath day, and in so doing they violated the Sabbath day.
    The non-Levites were commanded to rest on the Sabbath day, and in so doing they observed the Sabbath day.

    The Levites priests and non-Levites were both obeying the commandments of God, even though they were not all observing the Sabbath day.

    And the same is true of us today:

    “One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it.” (Romans 14:5-6).

    We who observe the Sabbath day should observe it out of love to the Lord, and we who do not observe the Sabbath day do not observe it out of love to the Lord. Our actions may differ, but our love to the Lord is the same. Our actions may change, but our love to the Lord remains. This is why love is the fulfillment of the law:

    “Whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law” (Romans 13:9-10).

    Love allows us to be flexible in our actions as long as our actions do not violate God’s love. This is why Paul’s actions toward the Jews could differ from his actions toward the Gentiles:

    “To those under the law I became like one under the law…so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law…so as to win those not having the law.” (1 Corinthians 9:20-22).

    In Paul's effort to win the Jews he followed the regulations of the law, and in his effort to win the Gentiles he ignored the regulations of the law. Paul actions were not restricted by the regulations of the law, but his actions always fulfilled the love required by the law.

    Even Gentiles who do not have the 10 commandments of the law are still able to fulfill the love required by the law:

    “For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature the things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts -- (Romans 2:14-15).

    Gentiles who do not have the 10 commandments of the law, do fulfill by natural instinct the love required by the law, and they become a law for themselves since their actions are inspired by love from their hearts as required by the law, even though they do not have the 10 commandments of the law.

    “If those who are not circumcised keep the righteous requirements of the law...who is not circumcised physically and yet fulfills the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written letter and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law.” -- (Romans 2:26-29).

    The love required by the law can be transgressed even by those who obey the written letter of the law, those who obey the law of 10 commandments.

    Sin, therefore, is not the transgression of the 10 commandments of the law, but is the transgression of the love required by the law. This is why the Levite priests could transgress the 10 commandments of the law and still be innocent of sin:

    "Haven't you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day and yet are innocent?'' (Matthew 12:5).
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2017
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  2. Faith Alone 1 Cor 15:1-4

    Faith Alone 1 Cor 15:1-4 Active Member

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    They violated more than that , you could not arrest somebody at night , priest who is near arrest can't also judge you , you can't be put to death without evidence or based on self evidence .
    There was time period from called guilty to punishment , Jesus punishment was imidiate ( person like Barabas was in jail waiting for crucifixion , while Jesus was straight away exchanged for him and send to die after whipping ) .
     
  3. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    I agree with much of what you write, but don't agree sin was not the transgressing of the TC:

    What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid, nay I had not known sin but by the law, for i had not known lust except the law had said: Thou shalt not covet. But sin, taking occasion by the commandment aroused in me all manner of concupiscence . For without the law sin was dead.
    For I was alive without the law once, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. And the commandment that was ordained to life I found to be unto death. For sin, taking ocassion by the commandment deceived me and by it slew me
    Rom7:7-11

    The commandment Paul is referring to in the above is:
    Thou shalt not covet
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2017
  4. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You have answered this a couple of lines further down.
    They were obeying God's command and the work they did was part of the worship of God.
     
  5. Doveaman

    Doveaman Re-Created, Not Evolved.

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    If sin is the transgression of the 10 commandmenta, then the Levite priests would have sinned by violating the 4th commandment, but instead they were innocent of sin: "Haven't you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day and yet are innocent?'' (Matthew 12:5).
    No, it is not.

    The purpose of the law was to reveal and expose the sin that already existed in the world before the law was given: "For before the law was given, sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law." ( Romans 5:13).
    Correct.

    Paul was already coveting before the law was given, but he did not know coveting was a sin before the law was given. After the law was given Paul became aware that his coveting was indeed a sin.

    "No one will be declared righteous in His sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin."
    (Romans 3:20).

    Paul was already sinning before the law was given, but he only became conscious of his sin after the law was given, because the law revealed his sin.
    "The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law." (1 Corinthians 15:56).

    Before the law was given sin had no power to condemn us, but when the law of commandments came sin received the power to condemn. We are condemned for sin through the conviction of the law, but if there is no law we cannot be condemned for its violation, even though we may sin: "For where there is no law there is no transgression...sin is not imputed when there is no law." (Romans 4:15, Romans 5:13).

    Even though we Christians may sin we are not imputed with sin, because we are not under law, we are under grace: "For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace." (Romans 6:14).

    Do we, then, continue to sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! Rather, we obey the love required by the law, because love is the fulfillment of the law: Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law” (Romans 13:9-10).
    "Thou shalt not covet" is still applicable to Christians, but it is not included in a package of 10 commandments, it is included in the fulfillment of God's divine love. If we love our neighbor we would not have inappropriate desires toward them. This is why love is the fulfillment of the law: Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law” (Romans 13:9-10).
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2017
  6. Doveaman

    Doveaman Re-Created, Not Evolved.

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    That's true.

    And in obeying God's command they were also violating the 4th commandment of the law.

    This means that we can obey God's commands without obeying the law of 10 commandments:

    "Haven't you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day and yet are innocent?'' (Matthew 12:5).
     
  7. Steve Petersen

    Steve Petersen Senior Veteran

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    When two commandments are in conflict, the positive one overrides the negative one.

    Subsequently Raba, others say R. Ashi, said: The statement I made is valueless, for Resh Lakish said, 'Wherever you come upon a combination of a positive and a negative precept and you are able to act in conformity with both, well and good; but if not, the positive precept must override the negative'. Similarly here it is possible to perform halizah, whereby one is enabled to keep the positive as well as the negative precept. - b. Yevamoth 20b​
     
  8. Doveaman

    Doveaman Re-Created, Not Evolved.

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    Sabbath keepers tend to focus on the 10 commandments of the law rather than on the entire Mosaic Law.
     
  9. Doveaman

    Doveaman Re-Created, Not Evolved.

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    Isn't the Sabbath day commandment a positive command?

    "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy." (Exodus 20:8).

    God's command to the Levite priests was to work on the Sabbath day, and His command to the non-Levites was to rest on the Sabbath day.

    Aren't both commands positive?
     
  10. Steve Petersen

    Steve Petersen Senior Veteran

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    Specifically, you raised Jesus' mention of the priests working on the Sabbath. The restriction on work is a negative commandment, but the command to sacrifice on the Sabbath is a positive one.
     
  11. Doveaman

    Doveaman Re-Created, Not Evolved.

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    Okay. :)
     
  12. Faith Alone 1 Cor 15:1-4

    Faith Alone 1 Cor 15:1-4 Active Member

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    That's why Jews were accusing Jesus of doing miracles on sabbath.
     
  13. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    I must admit, entering into debate, where any disagreement takes place with someone such as yourself makes me feel a twinge of guilt. For my only real concern in these websites is to confront those who preach, in effect law based righteousness, and I know you don't. Also, most of the scriptures you quote are underlined in my Bible!
    However, in a friendly spirit.
    I agree the moral law stated in the TC was in existence before Sania. But if that law is summed up in those commands, I therefore sin by transgressing what is written in those commands. The fact the law predates it being written down, would to my thinking be immaterial. Throughout the OT, if someone transgressed the written law they were considered to have committed sin.
    Absolutely, the law makes us conscious of sin, no knowledge of the law, no consciousness of sin. But if I commit adultery I commit sin. If I murder i commit sin, if I steal I commit sin. So if I transgress what is written in the moral law, I commit sin by doing so in my view.
    In the UK, I have no authority to enter a bank and take anyone elses money out of the bank but my own. If I do I am transgressing a law that states I am stealing. I am guilty under the law and must face punishment for doing so. However, a security guard is quite entitled take other people's money out of the bank due to his job. The fact he can do that without violating the law does not mean everyone else is transgressing the law and is guilty if they act the same. It just means that in the security guards line if work he is not guilty by his actions.
    In the same way, I would say the priests were not guilty by their actions. That wouldn't mean the ordinary folk were not guilty if they transgressed that law.
    That's my simple way of viewing it anyways.
    The only other point i would make is. If only two laws were written in my mind and placed on my heart: love God and love my neighbour. Would it not be true, that if I committed sin, I could only be conscious I had failed to love as I should? For as you say: through the law we become conscious of sin.
    So, if I stole something, would i only be conscious I had sinned by failing to love as I should, or, would I specifically be conscious I committed sin by the act of stealing?
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2017
  14. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    How could Abraham transgress the law given at Mt Sinai? Moses said Abraham did not have that law.

    bugkiller
     
  15. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    I likey.

    bugkiller
     
  16. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    They even amend that.

    bugkiller
     
  17. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm! guess you are correct.

    bugkiller
     
  18. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    Your bank illustration is pretty good.

    Since Abraham was before the law, I wonder where Pharaoh got the idea it was wrong to take another man's wife. Also where did Moses get the idea it was wrong to murder? He left Egypt because of his capital crime.

    bugkiller
     
  19. Doveaman

    Doveaman Re-Created, Not Evolved.

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    Are you sure you are opposed to law based righteousness?

    "Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, 'The righteous will live by faith.' And the law is not based on faith"
    (Galatians 3:11-12).

    If righteousness is not based on the law, and the law is not based on faith, then what's the point of a Christian observing that law? It seems rather pointless to me, since our faith is not based on it, and our righteousness is not determined by it. This is likely why scriptures tell us: "The law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners" (1 Timothy 1:9).

    If the law is made for sinners and not for the righteous, then why would a Christian be required to obey a law that was not made for them? I don't see the point.
    The 4th commandment is not a moral law, it is a ceremonial law. That's why the priests could violate it. Moral laws are never permitted by God to be violated.
    A priest of God does not sin by violating the 4th commandment: "Haven't you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day and yet are innocent?'' (Matthew 12:5).

    Christians now serve God as priests working in the superior temple of Christ body: "To Him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by His blood, and has made us to be kings and priests to serve His God." (Revelations 1:5-6).


    "You also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ."
    (1 Peter 2:5).

    If the natural priests serving in the Jewish temple could violate the Sabbath day and still be innocent of sin, how much more innocent are we, the spiritual priests, who now serve in the superior temple of Christ's body!

    "Haven't you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day and yet are innocent? I tell you that One greater than the temple is here.'' (Matthew 12:5-6).
    Except for the 4th commandment. And whoever breaks one commandment breaks all: "For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." (James 2:10).
    But all of those sins were committed before the written law was given. So sin cannot be the transgression of a law that is not yet given:

    "For before the law was given, sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law." "For where there is no law there is no transgression." (Romans 4:15, Romans 5:13).

    I think your error is that you keep including God's moral precepts in a limited package of 10 commandments, instead of including them in the fulfillment of God's infinite love. Maybe you are trying to do both, but both are not necessary, because love is the fulfillment of the law.

    God is love and love is of God, and Christians obey God's infinite love, and God's infinite love is not limited to 10 commandments.
    Your security guard analogy does not work because the security guard was not violating the law, but the priests were violating the law. The priests did what was forbidden by law: "Haven't you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day?" (Matthew 12:5).

    The priests desecrated the Sabbath-day law, but the security guard did not desecrate any law.
    Yes.
    That's correct, but it was the Bible that said it. :)
    Yes.
    I'm not sure Robin Hood knew he was sinning when he robbed from the rich and gave to the poor. :D
    He probably thought he was doing God a service. :D

    But seriously, the scriptures tell us that the law was not made for the righteous, but for sinners. Sinners need the letter of the law to make them conscious of sin, but the righteous do not. When we were sinners we needed the letter of the law to make us conscious of sin, but now that we are righteous we no longer need it, because we now rely on the love of the Spirit:

    "He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life." (2 Corinthians 3:6-9).

    God is love and God is Spirit, and Christians rely of the love of the Spirit, because our confidence on the day of judgment will not be based on the commands of the letter, but will be based on the love of the Spirit:

    "And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love, and whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment" (1 John 4:16-17).
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2017
  20. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure many would agree that anytime they commit any sin they are only conscious they sinned by not loving as they should. Everyone I know would be conscious they sinned concerning the specific thing they did.
    Do I believe in a righteousness of observing the law?

    Sin is the transgression of the law 1john 3:4

    Therefore if you observe the law you do not commit sin. If you fail to observe the law you do commit sin.:

    Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law/ not committing sin, rather through the law we become conscious of sin
    Rom3:20

    Jesus said he didn't come to abolish the law matt5:17

    Indeed, why would God want to abolish the fact he wants you to love him with all your heart, body soul and mind?
    Would God really abolish the fact he doesn't want the believer to steal, lie, murder commit adultery etc?

    Paul states:

    Christ is the end of the law, unto righteousness( not full stop) for everyone who believeth
    Rom10:4

    Do we make void the law through faith? God forbid! We establish the law rom3:31

    However, we should not confuse the law we have with our natural understanding of the word law.
    The law as we understand it comes in two parts. The law itself that should be obeyed, and the penalty incurred for transgression if it. The Christians penalty has been paid in full by Christ. But the perfect, holy and righteous moral law of God remains, minus the penalty for transgression.
    It got transferred from an external law written on tablets of stone, to an internal law written on tablets if human hearts( 2cor3:3)
    Simply put, practically speaking the Christian in their heart desires to live as God wants them to live. I don't call that legalism or seeking righteousness of observing the law.
    The fact if a Christian bore false witness they would be conscious they sinned because they bore false and not simply because they didn't love as they should love, testifies that law as it were is in their heart. For as you say, the law makes us conscious of sin.
    Indeed love God and love your neighbour existed under the OC, but that did not mean no other law needed to exist.
    So why is the law placed in the believers heart? If the NC only stood on one core fact, Christ dying for our sins, what is to stop us sinning as much as we like? Our debt has been paid in full. No! God had to stop the believer having a licence to sin. So he placed the law in the hearts of his children. In this sense the believer has been born again. They now desire to live as God wants them to live, not as they would naturally choose to live. However, the flesh has not been born again, and at times, for none are perfect, we allow ourselves to wilfully follow after the flesh. When we do that, we are hit with a conscience, for we have gone against how we in our hearts know we should live, and desire to live. Then , at that point you could say the law is a burden in one sense. We have no rest, no peace until we come before our father in heaven and seek his forgiveness for our folly. We do NOT seek his forgiveness out of fear of hell if we don't. But rather much the same as we asked our parents forgiveness when we broke their rules as children. We love God, are grieved when we go after the flesh, and want our peace back.
    The problem is a law of righteousness, that is where sins true power lies( 1cor15:56)
    The law placed in our hearts, minus the penalty for transgression, is not a law that gives sin power over us
    Notice the order here!

    This is the covenant I will make with them after that time says the Lord
    I will write my laws in their minds and place them in their hearts
    THEN HE ADDS
    Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more.
    Heb10:16&17

    Jesus will be no one's saviour from sin unless the law is in their heart. For he will be no one's saviour from sin unless they in their heart desire to live as his Father wants them to live
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2017
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