God’s Love Superior To The Sabbath Rest

[Doveaman]

I'm not sure many would agree that anytime they commit any sin they are only conscious they sinned by not loving as they should.

God is love and love is of God, and everything God does is inspired by His love. Sin is anything done contrary to God's inspired love.

In the beginning there was only God, which means that in the beginning there was only love, because God is love. When we act against God, we act against love. When we sin against God, we are transgressing God's love.

Everyone I know would be conscious they sinned concerning the specific thing they did.

Only if they were told it was a sin to do so. A child will do wrong not knowing it is wrong. An adult will sin not knowing it is sin. The law was added to make the adults recognize their sins:

"Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law...So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good...But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good" (Romans 7:7-13).

The sin existed before the law was given, and the law was added to help us recognize the sin: "For before the law was given, sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law." (Romans 4:15).

Before the law was given, sin was in the world, but there was no law to convict us of sin.

Do I believe in a righteousness of observing the law?

Sin is the transgression of the law 1john 3:4

Therefore if you observe the law you do not commit sin. If you fail to observe the law you do commit sin.:

Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law/ not committing sin, rather through the law we become conscious of sin
Rom3:20

Why do law abiding Christians keep adding their own personal interpretation into the scriptures?
Isn't that forbidden?

I'm still not clear if you believe in a righteousness by observing the law.

If righteousness in not by the law and the law is not based on faith, then there is no need for the Christian to rely on the law, because the righteousness of a Christian is by faith, and not by the law.

Jesus said he didn't come to abolish the law matt5:17

That's correct.

There is the letter of the law (10 commandments) and there is the spiritual requirement of the law (love). We abolish the letter of the law, but we establish the spiritual requirement of the law, because love is the fulfillment of the law: “Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law” (Romans 13:9-10).

Indeed, why would God want to abolish the fact he wants you to love him with all your heart, body soul and mind?
Would God really abolish the fact he doesn't want the believer to steal, lie, murder commit adultery etc?

No, He would not. And this is why we establish the spiritual requirement of the law to love God and neighbor.

Again, your error is that you keep including God's moral precepts in a package of 10 commandments, instead of including them in the fulfillment of God's love.

Even Gentiles, who do not have the letter of the law, are able to fulfill the love required by the law:

“For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature the things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts” -- (Romans 2:14-15).

Gentiles who do not have the letter of the law, do fulfill by natural instinct the love required by the law, and they become a law for themselves since their actions are inspired by love from their hearts as required by the law, even though they do not have the letter of the law.

“If those who are not circumcised keep the righteous requirements of the law...who is not circumcised physically and yet fulfills the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written letter and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law.” -- (Romans 2:26-29).

If Gentiles fulfill the love required by the law, they will put to shame the Jews who, even though they have the written letter of the law, are a transgressor of the love required by the law, because love is the fulfillment of the law: “Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law” (Romans 13:9-10).

Paul states:

Christ is the end of the law, unto righteousness( not full stop) for everyone who believeth
Rom10:4

That's correct. The righteousness of Christ through faith has brought to an end the righteousness of the law through works:

"Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law" (Galatians 3:23-25).

Do we make void the law through faith? God forbid! We establish the law rom3:31

Correct. We establish the spiritual requirement of the law, not the letter.

However, we should not confuse the law we have with our natural understanding of the word law. The law as we understand it comes in two parts. The law itself that should be obeyed, and the penalty incurred for transgression if it. The Christians penalty has been paid in full by Christ. But the perfect, holy and righteous moral law of God remains, minus the penalty for transgression.

You are correct in that the law indeed comes in two parts: the letter of the law and the Spirit of the law. The letter of the law is the 10 commandments. The Spirit of the law is the love required by the law. We worship God, not according to the letter of the law, but according to the Spirit of the law:

"He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life." (2 Corinthians 3:6-9).

The letter kills by condemning us for sin, but the Spirit gives life by saving us from sin. Those who rely on the letter will be condemned by the letter, but those who rely on the Spirit will be saved by the Spirit:

"All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: 'Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.'" (Galatians 3:10).

Those who lived by the law were to be saved by the law, and those who transgressed the law were condemned by the law. The Jews, however, could not live by the law, so they were, instead, condemned by the law. And the Gentiles, though not required to obey the law, were also condemned for their sins by that same law, because the law condemns all:

"Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God." (Romans 3:19-20).

Everyone was condemned by the letter of law, even though not everyone was required to obey that law. Christ then came to redeem us all from the condemnation of the law. And He redeemed us, not only by removing the condemnation of the law, but also by removing the law itself along with its ability to condemn us again:

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us." "For He Himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in His flesh the law with its commandments and regulations." (Galatians 3:13, Ephesians 2:14-15).

It got transferred from an external law written on tablets of stone, to an internal law written on tablets if human hearts( 2cor3:3)

The 10 commandments is the letter of the law. The letter of the law is not written on our hearts. It is the spiritual requirement of the law that is written on our hearts, just as it was written on the hearts of the Gentiles who do not have the letter of the law:

“For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature the things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts” -- (Romans 2:14-15).

The spiritual requirement of the law is love, and God's law written on our hearts is the love we express from our hearts.

Simply put, practically speaking the Christian in their heart desires to live as God wants them to live. I don't call that legalism or seeking righteousness of observing the law.
The fact if a Christian bore false witness they would be conscious they sinned because they bore false and not simply because they didn't love as they should love, testifies that law as it were is in their heart. For as you say, the law makes us conscious of sin.

It is God's Spirit in our hearts that inspires God's love in our hearts, and it is God's love inspired in our hearts that is God's law written in our hearts. It is the love of God's Spirit in our hearts that inspires us not to bear false witness, and it is the love of God's Spirit in our hearts that makes us conscious when we do:

"Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth. And by this we know that we belong to the truth, and how we set our hearts at rest in His presence whenever our hearts condemn us. For God is greater than our hearts, and He knows everything." (1 John 3:18-20).

When we violate God's love our hearts condemn us, and when we fulfill God's love our hearts are set at rest.

For the righteous, it is the love of God's Spirit written on our hearts that makes us conscious of our sin.

But for the sinner, it is the 10 commandments of the law that makes them conscious of their sin, because the law condemns them all for their sin:

"For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin" (Galatians 3:21-22).

Indeed love God and love your neighbour existed under the OC, but that did not mean no other law needed to exist.

Another law needed to exists because they were not inspired by the love of God's Spirit. But we who are now inspired by the love of God's Spirit need no other law to exists, because love is the fulfillment of the law: “Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law” (Romans 13:9-10).

So why is the law placed in the believers heart?

Because love from the heart is the fulfillment of the law.

If the NC only stood on one core fact, Christ dying for our sins, what is to stop us sinning as much as we like? Our debt has been paid in full. No! God had to stop the believer having a licence to sin. So he placed the law in the hearts of his children. In this sense the believer has been born again. They now desire to live as God wants them to live, not as they would naturally choose to live.

That's correct. This is why God placed His divine Spirit in our hearts so that we may live as God Himself lives and so that we may love as God Himself loves. God does not live by the law of 10 commandments. God lives by His own divine love. And we who are now inspired by God's divine Spirit will also live by God's divine love:

"Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God: and everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love...And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love, and whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him...because in this world we are like Him." (1 John 4:7-17).

In this world we are like God; in this world we live as God Himself lives and we love as God Himself loves.

However, the flesh has not been born again, and at times, for none are perfect, we allow ourselves to wilfully follow after the flesh. When we do that, we are hit with a conscience, for we have gone against how we in our hearts know we should live, and desire to live. Then , at that point you could say the law is a burden in one sense. We have no rest, no peace until we come before our father in heaven and seek his forgiveness for our folly. We do NOT seek his forgiveness out of fear of hell if we don't. But rather much the same as we asked our parents forgiveness when we broke their rules as children. We love God, are grieved when we go after the flesh, and want our peace back.

Your last sentence here pretty much explains why we are "grieved" whenever we sin. As you said, it is because "we love God" that we are "grieved" whenever we fall short.

Whenever I become too angry with my son, I am grieved, not because I am living by a list of rules, but because I love him. And I am pretty sure that it is the love of God's Spirit in my heart that is causing me to grieve and making me conscious of my anger.

The problem is a law of righteousness, that is where sins true power lies( 1cor15:56)

Yes, that's correct. Sin has the power to condemn those who rely on the law, but it has no power to condemn those who do not rely on the law: "For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace." "Sin is not imputed when there is no law." "For where there is no law there is no transgression" (Romans 4:15, Romans 6:14, Romans 5:13), and therefore no condemnation.

The law placed in our hearts, minus the penalty for transgression, is not a law that gives sin power over us

If the letter of the law is written in our hearts, then sin still has the power to condemn us, because it is the letter of the law that gives sin the power to condemn us:

"I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death." -- (Romans 7:10-11).

Sin receives its power to condemn us through the commandments of the law. This is why we become cursed when we rely on the law: "All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: 'Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.'" (Galatians 3:10).

The Jews could not do everything written in the letter of the law, nor can we. This is why Christ had to abolish the law with its commandments that condemned us:

"For He Himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in His flesh the law with its commandments and regulations." (Ephesians 2:14-15).

Notice the order here!

This is the covenant I will make with them after that time says the Lord
I will write my laws in their minds and place them in their hearts
THEN HE ADDS
Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more.
Heb10:16&17

I think where we disagree is that you believe that the law written on our hearts is the letter of the law, while I believe it is the love of the Spirit being expressed from the heart as required by the law, because love is the fulfillment of the law: “Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law” (Romans 13:9-10).

Jesus will be no one's saviour from sin unless the law is in their heart. For he will be no one's saviour from sin unless they in their heart desire to live as his Father wants them to live

The desire to live as the Father wants us to live is not inspired by the letter of the law that was written on stone, but inspired by the love of the Spirit that is now written on our hearts: "He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life." (2 Corinthians 3:6-9).

It is the Father and Son living in us through the Holy Spirit that inspires us with the desire to live as God wants us to live: "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me." "For it is God who works in you both to will and to do according to His good purpose." (Galatians 2:20, Philippians 2:12-13).

It is the Father and Son living in us through the Holy Spirit, and they live in us as they had always lived from eternity, an eternity in which the 10 commandments does not exist, an eternity in which only the love of the Spirit exist, because the Spirit of the eternal God is love.

"Now the goal of the commandment is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith" because "the only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love." (1 Timothy 1:5-7, Galatians 5:6).

 

[stuart lawrence]

God is love and love is of God, and everything God does is inspired by His love. Sin is anything done contrary to God's inspired love.

In the beginning there was only God, which means that in the beginning there was only love, because God is love. When we act against God, we act against love. When we sin against God, we are transgressing God's love.
Only if they were told it was a sin to do so. A child will do wrong not knowing it is wrong. An adult will sin not knowing it is sin. The law was added to make the adults recognize their sins:

"Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law...So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good...But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good" (Romans 7:7-13).

The sin existed before the law was given, and the law was added to help us recognize the sin: "For before the law was given, sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law." (Romans 4:15).

Before the law was given, sin was in the world, but there was no law to convict us of sin.
Why do law abiding Christians keep adding their own personal interpretation into the scriptures?
Isn't that forbidden?

I'm still not clear if you believe in a righteousness by observing the law.

If righteousness in not by the law and the law is not based on faith, then there is no need for the Christian to rely on the law, because the righteousness of a Christian is by faith, and not by the law.
That's correct.

There is the letter of the law (10 commandments) and there is the spiritual requirement of the law (love). We abolish the letter of the law, but we establish the spiritual requirement of the law, because love is the fulfillment of the law: “Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law” (Romans 13:9-10).
No, He would not. And this is why we establish the spiritual requirement of the law to love God and neighbor.

Again, your error is that you keep including God's moral precepts in a package of 10 commandments, instead of including them in the fulfillment of God's love.

Even Gentiles, who do not have the letter of the law, are able to fulfill the love required by the law:

“For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature the things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts” -- (Romans 2:14-15).

Gentiles who do not have the letter of the law, do fulfill by natural instinct the love required by the law, and they become a law for themselves since their actions are inspired by love from their hearts as required by the law, even though they do not have the letter of the law.

“If those who are not circumcised keep the righteous requirements of the law...who is not circumcised physically and yet fulfills the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written letter and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law.” -- (Romans 2:26-29).

If Gentiles fulfill the love required by the law, they will put to shame the Jews who, even though they have the written letter of the law, are a transgressor of the love required by the law, because love is the fulfillment of the law: “Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law” (Romans 13:9-10).
That's correct. The righteousness of Christ through faith has brought to an end the righteousness of the law through works:

"Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law" (Galatians 3:23-25).
Correct. We establish the spiritual requirement of the law, not the letter.
You are correct in that the law indeed comes in two parts: the letter of the law and the Spirit of the law. The letter of the law is the 10 commandments. The Spirit of the law is the love required by the law. We worship God, not according to the letter of the law, but according to the Spirit of the law:

"He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life." (2 Corinthians 3:6-9).

The letter kills by condemning us for sin, but the Spirit gives life by saving us from sin. Those who rely on the letter will be condemned by the letter, but those who rely on the Spirit will be saved by the Spirit:

"All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: 'Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.'" (Galatians 3:10).

Those who lived by the law were to be saved by the law, and those who transgressed the law were condemned by the law. The Jews, however, could not live by the law, so they were, instead, condemned by the law. And the Gentiles, though not required to obey the law, were also condemned for their sins by that same law, because the law condemns all:

"Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God." (Romans 3:19-20).

Everyone was condemned by the letter of law, even though not everyone was required to obey that law. Christ then came to redeem us all from the condemnation of the law. And He redeemed us, not only by removing the condemnation of the law, but also by removing the law itself along with its ability to condemn us again:

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us." "For He Himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in His flesh the law with its commandments and regulations." (Galatians 3:13, Ephesians 2:14-15).
The 10 commandments is the letter of the law. The letter of the law is not written on our hearts. It is the spiritual requirement of the law that is written on our hearts, just as it was written on the hearts of the Gentiles who do not have the letter of the law:

“For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature the things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts” -- (Romans 2:14-15).

The spiritual requirement of the law is love, and God's law written on our hearts is the love we express from our hearts.
It is God's Spirit in our hearts that inspires God's love in our hearts, and it is God's love inspired in our hearts that is God's law written in our hearts. It is the love of God's Spirit in our hearts that inspires us not to bear false witness, and it is the love of God's Spirit in our hearts that makes us conscious when we do:

"Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth. And by this we know that we belong to the truth, and how we set our hearts at rest in His presence whenever our hearts condemn us. For God is greater than our hearts, and He knows everything." (1 John 3:18-20).

When we violate God's love our hearts condemn us, and when we fulfill God's love our hearts are set at rest.

For the righteous, it is the love of God's Spirit written on our hearts that makes us conscious of our sin.

But for the sinner, it is the 10 commandments of the law that makes them conscious of their sin, because the law condemns them all for their sin:

"For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin" (Galatians 3:21-22).
Another law needed to exists because they were not inspired by the love of God's Spirit. But we who are now inspired by the love of God's Spirit need no other law to exists, because love is the fulfillment of the law: “Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law” (Romans 13:9-10).
Because love from the heart is the fulfillment of the law.
That's correct. This is why God placed His divine Spirit in our hearts so that we may live as God Himself lives and so that we may love as God Himself loves. God does not live by the law of 10 commandments. God lives by His own divine love. And we who are now inspired by God's divine Spirit will also live by God's divine love:

"Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God: and everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love...And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love, and whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him...because in this world we are like Him." (1 John 4:7-17).

In this world we are like God; in this world we live as God Himself lives and we love as God Himself loves.
Your last sentence here pretty much explains why we are "grieved" whenever we sin. As you said, it is because "we love God" that we are "grieved" whenever we fall short.

Whenever I become too angry with my son, I am grieved, not because I am living by a list of rules, but because I love him. And I am pretty sure that it is the love of God's Spirit in my heart that is causing me to grieve and making me conscious of my anger.
Yes, that's correct. Sin has the power to condemn those who rely on the law, but it has no power to condemn those who do not rely on the law: "For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace." "Sin is not imputed when there is no law." "For where there is no law there is no transgression" (Romans 4:15, Romans 6:14, Romans 5:13), and therefore no condemnation.
If the letter of the law is written in our hearts, then sin still has the power to condemn us, because it is the letter of the law that gives sin the power to condemn us:

"I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death." -- (Romans 7:10-11).

Sin receives its power to condemn us through the commandments of the law. This is why we become cursed when we rely on the law: "All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: 'Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.'" (Galatians 3:10).

The Jews could not do everything written in the letter of the law, nor can we. This is why Christ had to abolish the law with its commandments that condemned us:

"For He Himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in His flesh the law with its commandments and regulations." (Ephesians 2:14-15).
I think where we disagree is that you believe that the law written on our hearts is the letter of the law, while I believe it is the love of the Spirit being expressed from the heart as required by the law, because love is the fulfillment of the law: “Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law” (Romans 13:9-10).
The desire to live as the Father wants us to live is not inspired by the letter of the law that was written on stone, but inspired by the love of the Spirit that is now written on our hearts: "He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life." (2 Corinthians 3:6-9).

It is the Father and Son living in us through the Holy Spirit that inspires us with the desire to live as God wants us to live: "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me." "For it is God who works in you both to will and to do according to His good purpose." (Galatians 2:20, Philippians 2:12-13).

It is the Father and Son living in us through the Holy Spirit, and they live in us as they had always lived from eternity, an eternity in which the 10 commandments does not exist, an eternity in which only the love of the Spirit exist, because the Spirit of the eternal God is love.

"Now the goal of the commandment is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith" because "the only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love." (1 Timothy 1:5-7, Galatians 5:6).

Your posts are too long brother. So I will just make a couple of quick points.
In regard to my post referring to 1john 3:4& rom3:20

It is hardly personal interpretation, just plain fact.
And something we agree in:
Through the law we become conscious of sin.

Therefore I repeat. If only love God and love your neighbour are laws in your heart, you can only be conscious you sin by failing to love as you should.
Christians are conscious they sin if they committed adultery, because they committed the act of adultery, not simply because they didnt love as they should. Same goes for bearing false witness, coveting, stealing etc. So I'm afraid, according to scripture we both accept you are in error
And as you say you are not sure if I believe in a righteousness if observing the law, I'm afraid I find it difficult to now take you seriously. So much if what you quoted from scripture is not applicable to the post you responded to.
I will just say again, then withdraw from this thread.
Christ paid the Christians penalty in full.
The law cannot condemn them.
The law in the believers heart, simply means the Christian in their heart desires to live as God wants them to.
I have to say, to consider that might be seeking a righteousness of observing the law is strange to say the least.
Anyway, I fear we will simply go round in circles, so I will leave it there
God bless

 

[Doveaman]

Your posts are too long brother.

It's only too long for those who don't want to take the time to read it.

Treat it as a Bible study.

In regard to my post referring to 1john 3:4& rom3:20

It is hardly personal interpretation, just plain fact.
And something we agree in:
Through the law we become conscious of sin.

Therefore I repeat. If only love God and love your neighbour are laws in your heart, you can only be conscious you sin by failing to love as you should.
Christians are conscious they sin if they committed adultery, because they committed the act of adultery, not simply because they didnt love as they should. Same goes for bearing false witness, coveting, stealing etc. So I'm afraid, according to scripture we both accept you are in error
And as you say you are not sure if I believe in a righteousness if observing the law, I'm afraid I find it difficult to now take you seriously. So much if what you quoted from scripture is not applicable to the post you responded to.
I will just say again, then withdraw from this thread.
Christ paid the Christians penalty in full.
The law cannot condemn them.
The law in the believers heart, simply means the Christian in their heart desires to live as God wants them to.
I have to say, to consider that might be seeking a righteousness of observing the law is strange to say the least.
Anyway, I fear we will simply go round in circles, so I will leave it there
God bless

I get the impression you prefer to teach rather than to be taught.

There is no point in me reading your post since you ignored mine, because you will just be repeating statements that I already addressed.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Treat it as a Bible study.
I get the impression you prefer to teach rather than to be taught.

.

Strange, that's the impression you gave me

 

[stuart lawrence]

Years ago I myself thought only two Commandments existed, the rest of the law was no more.
A Christian brother on another website pointed out to me my error in thinking. Upon much reflection I realised he was correct.
Of course, those who come solely to teach, not learn would not feel able to admit to error. They would consider themselves much like the pope I imagine. Infallible

 

[BobRyan]

They violated more than that , you could not arrest somebody at night , priest who is near arrest can't also judge you , you can't be put to death without evidence or based on self evidence .
There was time period from called guilty to punishment , Jesus punishment was imidiate ( person like Barabas was in jail waiting for crucifixion , while Jesus was straight away exchanged for him and send to die after whipping ) .

Indeed in those examples - they do evil.. "and are guilty"

 

[BobRyan]

Specifically, you raised Jesus' mention of the priests working on the Sabbath. The restriction on work is a negative commandment, but the command to sacrifice on the Sabbath is a positive one.

The command to rest is a command to not engage in secular business to allow yourself time-off, rest
call it negative if you will.

the Command to worship Lev 23:2-3 Isaiah 66:23 - instead of engaging in secular rat-race Isaiah 58:13 can be viewed negatively ... or positively.

Adam and Eve have the day set apart as a holy day in Genesis 2:1-3... no animal sacrifice.

 

[Doveaman]

Strange, that's the impression you gave me

No surprise there. But the difference is that I took the time to read and address the many claims in your post #20. You then ignored my response and proceeded to repeat the same claims that I already addressed, leaving the impression you prefer to speak but not listen.

Years ago I myself thought only two Commandments existed, the rest of the law was no more.
A Christian brother on another website pointed out to me my error in thinking. Upon much reflection I realised he was correct.
Of course, those who come solely to teach, not learn would not feel able to admit to error. They would consider themselves much like the pope I imagine. Infallible

The Christian brother was right, God indeed has more than two commandments, and if you had read my post you would see that I agree. But where you and I disagree is that you keep including God's moral commands in the limited package of 10 commandments, instead of including them in the fulfillment of God's infinite love. God's infinite love consists of far more than just 10 commandments, and the Christian live by every command of God, not just 10.

"And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment." (1 John 3:23).

Like I said, God is love and love is of God and all of God's commands are inspired by His love. And we obey God, not because we are following a list of written rules, but because we love Him with all our heart, and because "the only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love." (Galatians 5:6).

"The goal of the commandment is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. Some have wandered away from these and turned to meaningless talk. They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm." (1 Timothy 1:5-7).

 

[Doveaman]

The command to rest is a command to not engage in secular business to allow yourself time-off, rest

For the Christian, there in no such thing as "secular" business. It is God who works in us and we belong to God, and all our business is done to the glory of God, therefore all our business is sacred, not secular: "For it is God who works in you both to will and to do according to His good purpose." (Philippians 2:12-13).

God does not do secular works in us or through us, He only does sacred works.

"You also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ." (1 Peter 2:5).

If the Levitical priesthood serving in the Jewish temple could violate the Sabbath day and still be innocent of sin, how much more innocent are we, the priesthood of Christ, who now serve in the superior temple of Christ's body!

"Haven't you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day and yet are innocent? I tell you that One greater than the temple is here.'' (Matthew 12:5-6).

 

[Aseyesee]

Can anyone explain how the Levite priests were able to violate the Sabbath-day and yet were innocent of sin?

"Haven't you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day and yet are innocent?'' (Matthew 12:5).

The Levite priests working in the Jewish temple consistently violated the Sabbath-day every week and yet were innocent of sin.

This proves that sin is not the transgression of the 10 commandments of the law, since the Sabbath-day rest was included in the 10 commandments of the law.

The Levites priests were commanded to work on the Sabbath day, and in so doing they violated the Sabbath day.
The non-Levites were commanded to rest on the Sabbath day, and in so doing they observed the Sabbath day.

The Levites priests and non-Levites were both obeying the commandments of God, even though they were not all observing the Sabbath day.

And the same is true of us today:

“One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it.” (Romans 14:5-6).

We who observe the Sabbath day should observe it out of love to the Lord, and we who do not observe the Sabbath day do not observe it out of love to the Lord. Our actions may differ, but our love to the Lord is the same. Our actions may change, but our love to the Lord remains. This is why love is the fulfillment of the law:

“Whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law” (Romans 13:9-10).

Love allows us to be flexible in our actions as long as our actions do not violate God’s love. This is why Paul’s actions toward the Jews could differ from his actions toward the Gentiles:

“To those under the law I became like one under the law…so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law…so as to win those not having the law.” (1 Corinthians 9:20-22).

In Paul's effort to win the Jews he followed the regulations of the law, and in his effort to win the Gentiles he ignored the regulations of the law. Paul actions were not restricted by the regulations of the law, but his actions always fulfilled the love required by the law.

Even Gentiles who do not have the 10 commandments of the law are still able to fulfill the love required by the law:

“For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature the things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts” -- (Romans 2:14-15).

Gentiles who do not have the 10 commandments of the law, do fulfill by natural instinct the love required by the law, and they become a law for themselves since their actions are inspired by love from their hearts as required by the law, even though they do not have the 10 commandments of the law.

“If those who are not circumcised keep the righteous requirements of the law...who is not circumcised physically and yet fulfills the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written letter and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law.” -- (Romans 2:26-29).

The love required by the law can be transgressed even by those who obey the written letter of the law, those who obey the law of 10 commandments.

Sin, therefore, is not the transgression of the 10 commandments of the law, but is the transgression of the love required by the law. This is why the Levite priests could transgress the 10 commandments of the law and still be innocent of sin:

"Haven't you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day and yet are innocent?'' (Matthew 12:5).

It's what comes out of a man, which is found in the third question asked in the Bible.

 

[Doveaman]

The command to rest is a command to not engage in secular business

There is some truth to this statement.

When we enter God's Sabbath-rest we cease from our own secular business so that we may fully engage in God's sacred business:

"There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own works, just as God did from His" (Hebrews 4:9-10).

For anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own secular business, just as God did from His own 'secular' business on the material creation.

God's rest from His 'secular' business on the material creation is a permanent state of rest, and not a temporary day of rest.

When we enter God's permanent rest we also rest from our own secular business so that we may permanently engage in God's sacred business.

God's Sabbath-rest, therefore, is not a temporary day of rest, but a permanent state of rest, a sacred state in which we now live in Christ:

“Come to Me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest…for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls” (Matthew 11:28-29).

 

[bugkiller]

It's only too long for those who don't want to take the time to read it.

Treat it as a Bible study.
I get the impression you prefer to teach rather than to be taught.

There is no point in me reading your post since you ignored mine, because you will just be repeating statements that I already addressed.

We unfortunately live in a world of instant this and instant that. Patience is a lost art. Full blown explanations are generally bypassed for short and simple. This can be achieved by talking about one thing per post instead of explaining the details.

I do like your posts, but do not usually read all of them.

I used to do long detailed posts.

bugkiller

 

[Doveaman]

We unfortunately live in a world of instant this and instant that. Patience is a lost art. Full blown explanations are generally bypassed for short and simple. This can be achieved by talking about one thing per post instead of explaining the details.

I do like your posts, but do not usually read all of them.

I used to do long detailed posts.

bugkiller

Well I do prefer to write short posts, but even in explaining one thing per post details are still necessary, especially when explaining the Law (Paul wrote whole books on the subject and even he is still misunderstood), but I do agree people prefer to read short posts.

 

[Bob S]

Where there is no law there is no sin. There is no Sabbath law in the new covenant. There are as many iterations of how to observe the now defunct Sabbath as there are people trying to observe it. Why, because there are no instructions in the new covenant to explain what to do. Why, because there is no law in the new covenant telling us we must keep it. Short and the truth.

 

[listed]

The command to rest is a command to not engage in secular business to allow yourself time-off, rest
call it negative if you will.

the Command to worship Lev 23:2-3 Isaiah 66:23 - instead of engaging in secular rat-race Isaiah 58:13 can be viewed negatively ... or positively.

Adam and Eve have the day set apart as a holy day in Genesis 2:1-3... no animal sacrifice.

Genesis makes no claim about Adam and Eve setting apart or observing any day.